We are not here to do Bible study led by youQuote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
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We are not here to do Bible study led by youQuote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
It's not that I don't respect what you say. It's that you don't say anything. You give outlandish opinions, and then suggest we do more research, endlessly repeating about how "the world turned upside down after Genesis 3", but at some point you have to know enough scripture to support your point. That's what I continue to wait on.Quote:
No, it's time you start digging and researching. You obviously have no respect for what I say, so please do some honest reading in reputable concordances and histories of Bible lands and Jewish practices. Read Kissing Fish by Roger Wolsey. Read up on the cultural background and meaning of St. Paul's made-up word, arsenokoites.
Reputable concordances? Give me either the concordance or, more specifically, the Greek lexicon that supports your arsenokoitai view. Either do so, or do please stop endlessly bringing it up.
W.G>: There is NO homosexuality in the animal kingdom nor in nature: Homosexuality is unnatural.
Do some honest research, V7. Homosexuality is very much present in the animal and insect world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacuum7
I hope you are not suggesting that we humans pattern ourselves on the animal world. There is a reason we refer to brutal people as "animals".
W.G.: Homosexuality in the Animal World? You must be reading the National Enquirer! Doesn't happen! The Animal World is all about procreating and procreating doesn't happen when males couple with males or females with females! If what you say is true, then animals and insects would be lost to extinction because there would be no reproduced young!
Again, The Laws Of Nature and Natural Law cannot be violated....or they cannot be violated for very long before retributions are demanded: You cannot contest what is natural and you cannot support what is unnatural.
Imperial wisdom, or high hopes Vac? In humans homosexuality EXISTS, and though the numbers are unknown, has existed for thousands of years that we know of. In addition we have learned hopefully that a growing number of bi-sexuals also exists fully capable of procreating and still being GAY. Know many myself with kids and marriages that now are openly gay. The range of human sexuality has grown and expanded greatly the last few decades and we are and will continue to find even more who do not fit into the small boxes of the human experience that comply with notions of what's natural and what's not, as I respectfully submit those natural laws of which you speak may indeed be rewriting themselves whether we agree or not, or like it or NOT.
I don't think anyone is arguing that homosexuality does not exist in humans, or bi-sexuals either for that matter. You could, of course, say the same thing about people having sex with minors, people having sex with animals, people having sex with multiple partners, people who want to have sex in public, pornography, and so forth. The question under discussion was the view of the Bible on all of that, and the fact that, from a Biblical point of view, the only acceptable place for sexual activity is in marriage between a man and a woman.
Not even bible readers and followers can agree on that one my friend, as this nation of diverse citizens are more accepting of the existance of reasonable human behavior, while still rejecting what's still considered abnormal behavior. We know for fact, sexuality aside, that humans do what they do, whether its good, bad, or in the middle. Far more reject child sex, yet soften on gay marriage, including Christians, and an even greater number define the concept and institution of marriage in other terms outside of ANY religion group.
In this secular nation the bible is not the only or final authority in the definition of marriage.
There is actually pretty substantial agreement on that one from serious Bible students. The disagreement comes for the casual side. You simply cannot find any evidence in the Bible that God approves of same gender sex or gay marriage. It just isn't there.Quote:
Not even bible readers and followers can agree on that one my friend
Correct, but I can find many Christians that don't care one way or another about gay marriage, and more than a few churches and pastors that actually will marry them. Many states grant a marriage license, so the evidence is that it is happening and in greater number. I cannot speak to the casual Christian, or the serious student, nor whether or not it's written, on that I take your word, but fact is it's happening, despite the serious students objection. The biggest thing though is the clergy is not the only one that can perform a lawful wedding, and that is what actually counts, so marriage and it's definition is not the exclusive domain of the church.
A state can define it also, and have.
Talaniman: So, through government intrusion into the business of families, absurd "laws" to help promote said behaviors that they were promoting, intrusions into the educational systems (starting at very young ages), public condemnations and the making of religion to be a pariah, the government funding of said "special interests" groups, and many other maneuverers to prop up the narrative that homosexuality was a "NORMAL" way of life, you may have finally beaten down a good portion of the American People, through constant haranguing and threats, to ostensibly "accept" the government line of crap that circulates around this subject.....and that is unfortunate. This FORCE-FEEDING of homosexual virtues upon the American People by the government is truly as bizarre as it is alarming and the purpose of it can only be to help facilitate the rapid decline of the American Family, the decay of which has been fueled by the government on many, many fronts over the years.
The majority rules, or it is supposed to rule, in the U.S. and this makes us wonder how the government was able ram-rod this homosexual agenda through because the majority of people DO NOT deem homosexuality as normal behavior?
The alarming part is this: If the government decides to condone Animalism, jlisenbe has alluded to, what is there to stop them from pushing that agenda upon us, too?
The same can be said of child porn, child sexual abuse, human trafficking, and adultery, so I have no idea what conclusion you want me to draw from that. If it's happening and in greater numbers, then we are to just accept it?Quote:
so the evidence is that it is happening and in greater number.
You are certainly correct in that regard. My parents were married by a JP. As I said earlier, the issue for me is whether or not the church is prepared to take a stand just in regard to the teaching of the Bible. I get real edgy when a professing Christian states that God accepts homosexual behavior/gay marriage but has not a single shred of scriptural evidence to support that contention.Quote:
The biggest thing though is the clergy is not the only one that can perform a lawful wedding, and that is what actually counts, so marriage and it's definition is not the exclusive domain of the church.
jlisenbe: I have a real problem with clergy, or anyone else, for that matter, that purports homosexuality to be fine and dandy and, at the same time, supports abortion, as well.
Vac, I agree with you on both counts.
Here's a summary about homosexuality in animals:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo...ior_in_animals
Read about Chicago's power couple, Myles and Precious (they've had their baby):
https://blockclubchicago.org/2019/07...having-a-baby/
My husband's sister and her female partner of 30+ years were finally able to legally marry. Years ago they had adopted a newborn boy who has turned out to be a wonderful (straight, as I know you're wondering) young man.
I'm involved in and have friends in the transgender community. They are more than willing to answer my questions, even the very personal ones.
Christian churches (ELCA Lutheran among others) accept the LGBTQIA community as worshippers and members.
And still no scripture to back up your position. Can you see that that's what's lacking? Your opinion carries no more weight than mine in a discussion of what God says about all of this.
The point isn't proof passages. The point was to show that there is homosexuality in the animal kingdom. The Wikipedia article is merely one source; there are many more.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I thought it would be fun (and educational) for you to read about Myles and Precious.
...And that straight children can be raised by a lesbian couple (my SIL and her wife). Hmm, maybe sexuality isn't a choice....
Ask me a transgender question. I'll toss it out to my trans friends. Oh, and read up on DES. It is an estrogen that was given to pregnant women from the '30s to the early '70s, women who were in danger of miscarrying. Many babies that resulted were intersex, had a mix of male and female sex organs. Those babies are now in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s, still struggling with their situation and many finally doing something about it (transitioning).
JL probably knows no hermorphidites and wouldn't know how to counsel them I'm betting, but I could be wrong. At least I want to be. Personally I marvel at the great things the Creator has made for us on this world and the real test is how you treat one another, and our home.
W.G.: The is a man of the Hebrew faith called Benjamin Shapiro....he is a very logic driven thinker and debater: I once heard him express the question "TRANSGENDER" this way: There is no "Transgender" because when one takes a DNA test they are EITHER MALE OR FEMALE AND THEY ARE NEVER MALE AND FEMALE WITHIN THE SAME PERSON! Case closed.
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