By all means, show us the data that shows otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by cdad
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By all means, show us the data that shows otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by cdad
Huh ?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
LOL, I meant that for Wondergirl...Quote:
Originally Posted by cdad
I'd like to see what she's reading.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
Where are you finding this "majority"? That's not what I'm reading about and hearing.
I bet the people defending this so vigorously have never sat down and actually read it...
Even Nancy Pelosi said we need to vote for this so we can find out what's in it... she didn't even have a clue at the time... and its clear she still doesn't.
Now that's a great point, did you read it?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Its over 5 foot thick... NO legislation NEEDS to be that thick unless its trying to hide a lot of stuff nobody wants to see the light of day..Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Read it online that's where the links I gave are. As long as its been online you could have actually studied the thing and not just holler about what you think it says or means.
Being afraid of 5 feet of paper is no excuse for laziness.
By all means interpret those 5 feet of regulations for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Wasting my time reading 5 feet of crap is...Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
If it looks like a turd... and smells like a turd... then you know it's a turd without having to taste it too.
Now I know why you have no clue what you are hollering about.
I know far more about this than you guys do... you've quoting White House propaganda that's been proven time and time again to be nothing but lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
And you don't even have the majority of your own party behind it... not to mention everyone else. Who are even LESS behind it.
It's come to this... an ad for Obamacare in Oregon.
A mere $2 million in taxpayer money to take Oregonians on a magical mystery tour. Not sure what the point is here, but then libs aren't keen on making sense.Quote:
“We fly with our own wings. Care about the same things. We stand strong together. So let me hear you say. We fly with our own wings. Dreamin’ all the big dreams. Long live Oregonians; we’re free to be healthy. Long live Oregonians; we’re free to be healthy.”
Hello again, Steve:
The point is, you've been winning the argument, so it's time to weigh in.. Ok, it was time a couple years ago, but better late than never.
excon
"We fly with our own wings. Dreamin’ all the big dreams."Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Bwa ha ha!
I would point out a bunch of interesting developments and reports about rising costs and such but you guys wouldn't care, so never mind.
Hello again, Steve:
That's what happens when you scream about the sky falling (death panels). Nobody BELIEVES you when the sky actually falls.Quote:
I would point out a bunch of interesting developments and reports about rising costs and such but you guys wouldn't care, so never mind.
Excon
Says the guy who keeps screaming about global warming that isn't happening. As I said yesterday, a majority of Americans still don't want Obamacare. They're smart enough to see the clusterfark they didn't want in the first place unfolding. It's you true believers who are the chicken littles that got us here in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Aon Hewett and Walmart seem to be working things out.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Walgreen moves to new health insurance model - chicagotribune.com
That's Walgreen's not Walmart and they're doing exactly as the confused on the left want, push people toward single payer. Meanwhile, it lets evil corporations like Walgreen's off the hook for compliance costs and forces the employee to deal with the exchanges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
“I can’t see how this is going to be good for the employee in the future,” said CBS This Morning’s Jill Schlesinger
In today's paper, Walmart was mentioned as jumping on the bandwagon too.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Like going from company pensions (that disappear) to 401(k)s. And the employee has control.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
You must think it's going to be a breeze, that's why they hired all those navigators, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I've spent most of the last 30 years dealing with the governmen... one thing I've learned is never underestimate their capacity to screw something up...
Because a chain is only as strong as its weakest link... and thanks to affirmative action and preffered hiring practices... most government employees are weak links.
I have been talking about rising costs that go back decades, now all of a sudden you are worried about the ones that are happening now?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
401K's that are subject to market forces. Only good to the next crash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
You libs, always assuming that things unsaid are a valid argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
What in the world makes you think I wouldn't be concerned about rising costs? Only liberals want prices to "necessarily skyrocket".
And be able to roll your 401(k) into some other investment. OR be like my sis and her husband who worked for Kodak for 30+ years and looked forward to a nice pension. Guess where that went...Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
That's business that's skyrocketing the prices. Not liberals.
401 K was the best thing that happened to my retirement portfolio. I'm doing much better than when the company had my pension in a trust fund.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Yeah, you still think it's greed and think it has nothing to do with the burdensome taxes and regulations you force on them, who then pass the cost to the consumer. It's not rocket science tal, whatever cost of compliance you force on business always gets passed on to the consumer. Duh.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
We all see how well the Government has handled the Social Security trust fund they have claimed was there for decades...
Huh? Which ones? Nothing new that I've heard of. Same as when Republicans were in charge.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
That was a business practice before Obama, DUH. Consumers always bear the brunt of the costs and none of the profits. Funny. You act like you aren't a consumer like the rest of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
I guess its better that 90 million fewer people actually have jobs thanks to Obamas practices. Than had jobs when Bush was in office.
I guess the goal of the left is to increace that to 355 million.
I swear, it's like walking into an Orwell novel every day...Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Quote:
Everybody who dislikes ObamaCare is being duped by GOP propaganda, says President Obama. That must include all those unions calling it a disaster, and all those who've lost jobs and pay because of the law.
Telemundo, the only news outlet that appears willing to ask Obama a tough question, pressed him this week about polls showing most Americans oppose ObamaCare. "Is everybody wrong?" the host asked.
"Yes, they are," Obama responded. The problem, he said, isn't his law. It's those evil Republicans who've spent "billions of dollars ... misinforming people."
Let's leave aside the fact that the Obama administration has spent a king's ransom promoting ObamaCare, and that Democrats and the liberal press have devoted three years to extolling its alleged virtues, and the fact that the public never supported this law to begin with.
Truth is, ObamaCare is a rolling disaster that is creating new enemies every day as its harmful effects ripple through the economy.
This week, the prestigious Cleveland Clinic announced plans to lay off as many as 3,000 workers "to prepare for health care reform." And hundreds of franchise owners came to Washington to explain how ObamaCare's employer mandate will force many of them to cut worker hours to avoid its massive costs.
Last week, Connecticut's Lawrence and Memorial Hospital cut dozens of jobs, citing "massive structural change" brought on by ObamaCare. More than a dozen other hospitals have recently announced job cuts.
That same week, the AFL-CIO voted overwhelmingly for a resolution calling ObamaCare "highly disruptive," despite concerted efforts on the part of the White House to convince labor leaders not to do so.
Other unions have been far less polite.
Then there are the jobs killed by ObamaCare's excise tax on medical devices. Last fall, device maker Stryker Corp. laid off 1,170 workers because of that tax — which both Democrats and the GOP are now trying to repeal.
IBD has been cataloguing businesses, public institutions and local governments that have cut jobs or worker hours specifically citing ObamaCare. That list is now more than 250.
Other companies are cutting benefits for part-time workers, spouses, early retirees or their entire workforce, because of ObamaCare. Every one of those workers has a good reason to want the law killed.
On top of this, the public may be noticing the growing pile of ObamaCare's broken promises. Among them:
• Family premiums haven't gone down by $2,500 annually, as Obama repeatedly said they would. They've gone up $2,976.
• Workers are increasingly finding that they can't keep the health plans they like, despite Obama's pledge that they can.
• ObamaCare is adding to federal budget deficits, as IBD recently reported, even though Obama claimed it would cut red ink.
• The law is hurting small businesses, not helping them.
The public even might have noticed that Obama himself has shown the law to be seriously flawed.
According to the Congressional Research Service, he repealed, changed or delayed pieces of ObamaCare 19 times. That includes the employer mandate, the verification rules, the limit on out-of-pocket costs, and the ability for workers at small companies to have a choice of plans in the exchanges.
None of this has anything to do with Republican propaganda.
Neither is Obama's oft-repeated claim true that Republicans have no alternative to ObamaCare. This week, conservative lawmakers introduced a package of reforms they've long advocated that would cut health costs, make insurance more affordable and protect those with pre-existing conditions.
The public's dislike of ObamaCare is real, and it is well-deserved. Now it's up to Republicans to seize on this and stop the law before it can live down to their expectations.
Sorry, Obama, Americans Are Right to Oppose ObamaCare - Investors.com
And that's what baffles me about the true believers, in spite of all of the reports detailing what a clusterfark is been so far they insist is all propaganda. Ask those 3000 clinic workers that last their jobs, the unions and business owners if it's just propaganda. It's reality to them. Or just ask why the people that wrote the law don't want to be a part of it if it's so great.
The same type of mentality persisted in Jonestown... we know how that ended too.
Hello again, tom:
Couple things..Quote:
Telemundo, the only news outlet that appears willing to ask Obama a tough question, pressed him this week about polls showing most Americans oppose ObamaCare. "Is everybody wrong?" the host asked.
"Yes, they are," Obama responded. The problem, he said, isn't his law. It's those evil Republicans who've spent "billions of dollars ... misinforming people."
Let's leave aside the fact that the Obama administration has spent a king's ransom promoting ObamaCare, and that Democrats and the liberal press have devoted three years to extolling its alleged virtues, and the fact that the public never supported this law to begin with.
When Obama was re-elected in 2010, it WAS an affirmation of his SIGNATURE law, Obamacare. If people HATED it then, as you and your right wing rag suggests, he would have LOST bigtime.
The next lie is how much Obama spent promoting the law.. That's just the problem.. He didn't spend ENOUGH. He actually thought that argument would be OVER, having won the election, and having had the law proven CONSTITUTIONAL... You know, stuff that an ORDINARY person would believe. He just had NO idea exactly HOW much he was hated... I didn't either..
All in all, this crap might as will have been written by Sarah Palin...
Excon
Right on cue, total denial of the facts. You're in deep, dude, you are a true believer.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Actually its been Republicans spending all the money to muddy the water, and in 11 days they will try their last desperate tactic to stop the prez. Shut down the whole government.
Even republicans are panicking over that idea. Wonder why all of them don't agree with Ted Cruz?
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