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That's not what we were talking about. But suppose Roe V Wade gets overturned some day. Does that mean that women will no longer have that "right"?
I ask because the signers of the Declaration would not agree with your approach or Tal's. They said we have certain inalienable rights because they were granted by, essentially, God. That is why that are inalienable, or you could say inseparable. Man did not grant them, so man cannot take the right to them away.
It's exactly what was being talked about! Keep up!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
And the signers' women never had occasion to have an abortion? And God gave mankind free will.Quote:
I ask because the signers of the Declaration would not agree with your approach or Tal's. They said we have certain inalienable rights because they were granted by, essentially, God. That is why that are inalienable, or you could say inseparable. Man did not grant them, so man cannot take the right to them away.
I seriously doubt women with resources will stop seeing their oby/gyn, and as poor females realize that's the way to go neither will they be bullied.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
The constitution GUARANTEES the free practice of ones religion.Quote:
I ask because the signers of the Declaration would not agree with your approach or Tal's. They said we have certain inalienable rights because they were granted by, essentially, God. That is why that are inalienable, or you could say inseparable. Man did not grant them, so man cannot take the right to them away.
https://www.ushistory.org/gov/10b.asp
the "establishment" clause, which prohibits the government from establishing an official church, and the "free exercise" clause that allows people to worship as they please.
Guys, here's what you get when you "clean out the womb". So tell me what you think. Who got bullied here, Tal? All those clever arguments kind of sound shrill when you get confronted with the truth.
https://assets.lifesitenews.com/imag...615_461_75.jpg
All the more reason for males to keep their pants zipped.
When you are losing an argument, become as disgusting as possible. Do you have any end stage cancer pics?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Your picture is a reflection of you, no one else.
The Declaration is not the law. The law is the US Constitution. The Constitution prohibits an establishment of religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Mankind secures his/her rights by the consent of the governed.Quote:
Man did not grant them, so man cannot take the right to them away.
How stupid can you get? Destroying unborn children, which you support totally, is what is disgusting. You can look at that picture, go eat your dinner, and just try and forget it. That is also completely disgusting.Quote:
When you are losing an argument, become as disgusting as possible. Do you have any end stage cancer pics?
As to the source of our rights, the D of I completely disagrees with you as does Blackstone.
Man, considered as a creature, must necessarily be subject to the laws of his Creator, for he is entirely a dependent being. . . . And consequently, as man depends absolutely upon his Maker for every thing, it is necessary that he should in all points conform to his Maker's will. This will of his Maker is called the law of nature. . . . This law of nature, being coeval [coexistent] with mankind and dictated by God himself, is of course superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity, if contrary to this; and such of them as are valid derive all their force, and all their authority, mediately or immediately, from this original. . . . The doctrines thus delivered we call the revealed or divine law and they are to be found only in the holy Scriptures. These precepts, when revealed, are found upon comparison to be really a part of the original law of nature. . . . Upon these two foundations, the law of nature and the law of revelation, depend all human laws; that is to say, no human laws should be suffered to contradict these.
How sad. You see a pic like that of the destruction of unborn children and your response is to try and say something which I guess you think is funny. Pathetic. It would, of course, be too much for you to take a stand against this. No. Much easier to make funny posts.Quote:
All the more reason for males to keep their pants zipped.
How did that fetus get there?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I guess it's funny to you, and there is only one solution for that.
It's NOT funny!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Then treat the issue seriously and stop with the "keep their pants zipped up" comments. It's sickening.
Then you behave yourself too. I really would love to pick your brain about stuff but am scared to even try anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Fire away. I answer questions. But I have to tell you that when you post pics like you did on the other thread, then your protests about being scared sound pretty fake as do your admonitions for me to behave.
Not nearly as stupid as you.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
You have no idea what I support but that never stops you from claiming that you do. They are not unborn children by the way. Potential unborn children or fetus or embryo or zygotes is more accurate. Your choice of words is never to discuss civilly, it is always to paint a false picture.Quote:
Destroying unborn children, which you support totally
You're the one posting the picture and making all the disgusting comments. Calm down.Quote:
You can look at that picture, go eat your dinner, and just try and forget it. That is also completely disgusting.
The D of I and Blackstone may disagree all they want. They are not the law.Quote:
As to the source of our rights, the D of I completely disagrees with you as does Blackstone.
I don't know from what 19th century tome you lifted this from but it's very outdated. In the country we both inhabit, your c/p has no legal standing, thank God. Divine law, law of revelation - puhleeze.Quote:
Man, considered as a creature, must necessarily be subject to the laws of his Creator, for he is entirely a dependent being. . . . . . . . The doctrines thus delivered we call the revealed or divine law and they are to be found only in the holy Scriptures. ...... . . . Upon these two foundations, the law of nature and the law of revelation, depend all human laws; that is to say, no human laws should be suffered to contradict these.
I know you three amigos will be happy about this. "Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam defends bill allowing abortion during labor"
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...z3XkG9B950fNek
You don't know who Blackstone was. Enough said.Quote:
I don't know from what 19th century tome you lifted this from
You do know Northam's bill has tight restrictions and cannot be used if certain specific conditions are not present don't you? You make it sound as if a pregnant woman can just abort a child at delivery because she changed her mind. That's never been the case, nor was it ever written that way. Of course the winger version sound so much more insidious and easier to attack when you leave out the real details of the matter. Regardless its been tabled in committee of jurisdiction according to your link.
Oh? And what are those "tight restrictions"? Do you know?
It was tabled thanks to a slim republican majority.
I'll let you find your own truth JL, I've actually done my own homework.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/virgini...%20physicians.
Not that you wingers care about tragic and difficult circumstances. Framing it as a capricious wily nily decision is disingenuous, and factually incorrect.Quote:
"No woman seeks a third trimester abortion except in the case of tragic or difficult circumstances, such as a nonviable pregnancy or in the event of severe fetal abnormalities, and the governor's comments were limited to the actions physicians would take in the event that a woman in those circumstances went into labor."
I don't think you know, so why not just admit that you don't?Quote:
I'll let you find your own truth JL, I've actually done my own homework.
"a capricious wily nily decision" That one made me laugh.
This is a baby at 22 weeks and fair game in Virginia and several other states. If you are the doctor, what would your procedure be to kill this baby in the womb? Honest discussion opportunity is right here, Wondergirl. What are your thoughts on this?http://assets.babycenter.com/ims/201...2-eyes_4x3.jpg
That's the way you right wing loons characterize what real people go through, so as usual it's you rattling off your own agenda, and dismissing facts that you don't agree with. That's fine, you do it enough where it's no surprise any more, so who cares what you squawk about? I get you hate all abortions and everything is an abortion in your book, but where are you for the women and families that do face the decision to not have that abortion? All you got is shunning, shaming, bastardizing, and maybe a bag of groceries and some gospel, but a dollar for long time medical needs, and post treatment care, where are you? Where is your commitment to mom/family and child for those future needs? When a child is 8 will you call a cop, or a counsellor when they exhibit behavior that goes against your notions of discipline? You have called a cop before and jailed juveniles.
So spare me the fake concern for the unborn child that only goes to further your domination of the least of us, using the authority to get in people's business, because you have a book that some ancient guy says that Jesus says so.
Tal, you are out of line, The Bible says not to murder and abortion is murder. Jesus said that love is the real law and abortion isn't an expression of love. Every child has a right to life and to deny that right is murder. A society that allows murder of innocents is a society that will eventually fail. Egyptian society that allowed murder of innocents failed, Jewish society that allowed murder of innocents failed, German society that allowed murder of innocents failed, Russian society that allowed murder of innocents failed. It is only a matter of time before other societies that allow murder of innocents fail. God is not mocked and his word does not return voidQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Nice sermon, but abortions are legal in Australia too, so you are as murderous as the US, therefore will fall too. Now what?
At least you admit that it's "murderous". That's a start of sorts.Quote:
so you are as murderous as the US
Enough said? Nothing to say about the other comments? That's the best you got? Lame, as usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
If Blackstone is the author, that part you quoted needs to be updated - or ignored.
I agree. But an UNBORN child is a fetus, not yet a child. A potential child, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Jewish society is thriving, as is German society. Russia not as much, but it's still around as a powerful player on the world stage.Quote:
Jewish society that allowed murder of innocents failed, German society that allowed murder of innocents failed, Russian society that allowed murder of innocents failed.
Do you propose women who have abortions be tried for murder?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
A fertilized egg (zygote) has been discussed. Are you concerned why do so many fertilized eggs die? Are you supporting funding into the matter for research to prevent these deaths? Do you really believe a zygote has the same right to life as a three-year-old child? I doubt it.
Criminalization of abortion doesn't lead to fewer abortions. It leads to more women dying from unsafe procedures. The abortion rate is higher in countries that ban abortion than in countries that allow abortion.
(I'll skip over the fact that the original Jane Roe of Roe v. Wade was paid by fundamentalist pastors to lie about her experience with abortion and claim that she was pro-life. She did it for the money, she said).
You wish, Clete's comment was on murderous societies falling, so by that metric so will Australia fall. Stop twisting stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
We discussed that you didn't know what it was.Quote:
A fertilized egg (zygote) has been discussed
You have data for that?Quote:
Criminalization of abortion doesn't lead to fewer abortions. It leads to more women dying from unsafe procedures. The abortion rate is higher in countries that ban abortion than in countries that allow abortion.
Saying that outlawing abortions does not decrease the number of abortions is about like saying outlawing murder doesn't decrease the number of murders. It's just nonsense as the chart below clearly shows. It also shows that, thanks to the efforts of pro-life groups, the rate of abortions has been steadily falling.
I quoted your words exactly.Quote:
Stop twisting stuff.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._1973-2014.png
Yes Tal we will all suffer judgementQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
They have risen againQuote:
Originally Posted by Athos
No, YOU decided the discussion was about not knowing with your head up your arse as usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
The Lancet. A peer-reviewed medical journal.Quote:
You have data for that?
That's about the dumbest analogy you've ever made here. And you've made some really dumb ones.Quote:
Saying that outlawing abortions does not decrease the number of abortions is about like saying outlawing murder doesn't decrease the number of murders. It's just nonsense as the chart below clearly shows.
The number of abortions in countries where abortion is banned is HIGHER than in countries where abortion is allowed. Not to speak of the enormously greater danger to the woman's life.
That's an argument for regulating abortion. Roe v. Wade.Quote:
It also shows that, thanks to the efforts of pro-life groups, the rate of abortions has been steadily falling.
Same place you got your chart.Quote:
You said the abortion rate is higher in countries that ban abortion than in countries that allow abortion. You have data for that?
Abortion again? Or is the real issue telling someone else what to do using religion as the weapon to deliver the message? All the evidence says education and awareness of options have lead to a decline in the need for abortions, even among the poor, and the young, and that's at least a trend in the right direction, despite the preaching and screeching of the bully religious right that says nothing against the 10 commandments violating dufus who has shown no remorse for his transgressions and sins.
No Tal Scripture says there is not one righteous, not one, so pointing out his sins just means we are also pointing at us. Do you think there might be a reason why religious thinking people might stand to the right?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Because they are of a sect that is ultra conservative yet will forego their own values for a political agenda that promotes those point of views.
Not everyone on the right is like that
Yup. He gives them permission to make fun of, scorn, and even hate the "other."Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
We all know who the other is.
There are many "others" depends on where you are and on what side of the fence
The others are not happy with the long history of suppression, oppression, exploitation, abuses and atrocities. The other side of that fence can no longer ignore and dismiss those complaints as they always have, because that just makes the complaining louder. You said it best here,
Very insightful, and a culmination of many things kept buried and hidden for a long time.Quote:
In many cities in the US there is chaos and mayhem blamed on police brutality, but it is a sign of a bigger problem. Draconian laws targetting the minority, the continued oppression of coloured and poor people and a system that relies on violence instead of goodwill and a frustration of a society ordered to shutdown
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