Ask Me Help Desk - The IRS scandal

Google "Federal Records act"... YOU saying it doesn't exist when it most certainy does won't change reality.

Prove it doesn't exist now... there are pages after pages of regulations and legal requirements that are part of it... read them yourself.

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Google "Federal Records act"... YOU saying it doesn't exist

No one here said that - who are you talking to?

No need. I am not the one trying to prove they were broken, and by whom. Sorry if I just don't take your word for it.

I've been waiting for a while to see if anyone would comment on this... and apparently nobody know as much as they think they do.

The IRS has its own email servers... THe White house has their own... they aren't located in the same locations... ( I know where the White house has theirs and NOBODY else has their equipment there).. they aren't even within a couple miles of each other.

BOTH will have copies of these same emails... BOTH will have their own backups... BOTH statitsticaly could not have possibly had the same failure affecting the same data... BOTH fall under the same Federal law.

Maybe nobody has said anything publicly about it just yet... there is no even remotely plausible excuse to have BOTH lose it.

But then.....the typical lefty responses when caught in a lie or cornered...is deflect, deny, and when that fails....start calling names.

And Tal... "The National Records Act" IS a federal law... prove it doesn't exist... google has thousands of references to it. Many of them on the National Archives website who is responsible for keeping and maintaining the backups / archives.

I suppose they (as part of the Federal Government ) are part of this grand deception too?

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Find the records and prove intent, as you saying its so, doesn't make it so, or point guilt at a guilty party. In legal terms you have allegations. Hollering is one thing, proof is a higher standard. We have heard the hollering and allegations, the burden of proof is in YOUR court.

How can we when the Justice Dept is complicit in the cover-up ?

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prove it doesn't exist

At no point did he say it didn't exist; why are you doting on this straw man fallacy?

I think the logic of your arguments and the facts of due process have much to be desired as does your resorting to broad brushing of facts and intentions to hide glaring flaws in your own positions.

Luckily I have nothing else to do but poke holes into right wing absurdity. It's not that hard and entertaining to an extent. Its like watching a human lighting a bottle rocket and thinking he will get to the moon. Upon failure he comes up with trying a bigger lighter.

In this case, you swear you know you have evidence but they won't let you find it. You ignore the evidence you do have though because it never leads you where you want it too. So we all watch this clown show the right wing yet again presents us with. You never had the credibility of truth in the first place and lunacy is where your hollering has gotten you. Don't dare call yourself smart and me dumb for watching you holler, and chase your own tail.

If you were so smart, you would sell tickets for free to the circus.

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At no point did he say it didn't exist; why are you doting on this straw man fallacy?

Are you still ranting away about something. I proved it exists... I even named it by its correct name...

Tal... when you find yourself deep in a hole... put down the shovel.

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I proved it exists... I even named it by its correct name.

Good for you. No one said it doesn't exist.

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Good for you. No one said it doesn't exist

Then the purpose of your comments are what exactly?

What's the purpose of you pretending to prove something that no one denied?

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Then the purpose of your comments are what exactly?

ankle biting

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ankle biting

I guess that's it... like those little pocket dogs that go yip , yip yip and can't do much more than that because they aren't able to reach any higher..

Nope, I will keep you honest. You can't post any old crap and not expect to get called on it when it's BS.

There is no room for me or anyone else to post ANY BS... there is none left to post after you get done without repeating something you said.

I posted facts... maybe a bit hard for a Canadian to wrap their mind around... but we have laws where... and we have them for a reason... the have been in place for many years... and yet this current administration has trouble following any of them... because he in his tiny little mind believes he is a King, and above such petty little things called laws meant for the unwashed masses.

You're absolutely RIGHT! I should stop trying to dig a hole deep enough to bury your BS! There is just too much of it! :D

You missed your true calling as a mega church preacher.

You failed to prove ANYTHING I said was inaccurate.

That's not what a debate or discussion is about. Only an impartial third party can judge who is right, or wrong, or who wins. I just throw my side of it out and the reasons behind it and move along. Okay sometimes I throw rocks after being rocked. I have my flaws, so what!

I have conceded no hole can be dug deep enough for your political BS! What else do you want from me? You don't have to agree with my facts, spin, or opinions. That would be no fun either! You are having fun aren't you?

PS, I know where the missing emails are and it was an easy thing to figure out. Even easier to get them if you think logically.

How many people here have been around 90% of the White House comunications infrastructure before? Me. You you, not anyone else on this thread.

Have you even been inside the IRS building before... I have too, not nearly as often as the WHite House but I've been in it more than a few times, Ever been around their servers? I have. Has anyone else here...

I can make a really long list of the Government agencies and quite a few embassies who's own facilities I'm quite familiar with... including that of Paracletes own countries embassy here.

So don't compare my actual experience around these as being on par or less with those who haven't even seen the outside of the buildings before.

And some of these I've been in and out of for the last 20 years.

THey all have been my customers for that long.

All your degrees and experiences are no better than my well earned PHD from the school of hard knocks. You will survive Obama, as I survived Reagans, and Bushes, and Nixons. No big deal. Trust me!

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Trust me!

that's the problem Tal he doesn't, he spends his time bignoting himself on a obscure website and tempting us with titbits of his secret world. Smoothy you need to get out more

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Stupid facts and education, they get in the way don't they when you want to emotionally stir things up.

For an alleged IT guy that's a mouthful. You know damn well they didn't just disappear. I know how it works and I know the law so you can save your "stupid" BS for someone else. Got it?

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How many people here have been around 90% of the White House comunications infrastructure before? Me.

Anyone can say that. I don't believe a word of it.

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You know damn well they didn't just disappear.

I know, that's why I mentioned it in my response.

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Anyone can say that. I don't believe a word of it.

Do you really think I give a damn if you do or don't? I know for a fact you don't even know squat about your own countries communications networks... much less your embassies secure communications networks. Ever work with Encryptors? Probibly not.

I've been in yours quite a few times too... back where diplomatic communications are handled. Just like dozens of other embassies here.

See the differnce between us... is I've done what I said... you just blow smoke.

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is I've done what I said.

Because you say you have on an anonymous internet forum? Hehe.
I work the stuff daily, now. Hopefully I passed my recent security certification exam. Other than this I don't talk about my work... don't need to, not trying desperately to impress people like you do.

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that's the problem Tal he doesn't, he spends his time bignoting himself on a obscure website and tempting us with titbits of his secret world. Smoothy you need to get out more

Clete.. I get out plenty... they say ignorance is bliss... if so you must be a very blissful person being spoo nfed the propaganda cetain groups want you to believe. You tal and NK as well.

If you believe everything you hear on the news... its you , not me that needs to get out more... I've been out and around more than enough to see how often the so-called journalists intentionally ignore what's actually happening to tell people what they want them to hear... and I've been around enough to see it happening in a number of countries.

I've had the good fortune to have seen a lot, and had the right friends in the right places to find stuff out I might not have had direct exposre to myself. I have a number of friends and family in the Justice Department of another country... and for 15 years before his death, I was able to count an Attourney General among them, a few others I won't say where they work) because they still work there and I shouldn't know it.

I've sat down with your previos embassador Dennis Richardson for lunch a few times with some of the IT guys. Oddly enough the first time I've ever had a Hawaiian Pizza was with them on day.

So yap away... I've been there, you haven't. Nothing you can say will change the facts of it.

Its obvious you and a few oof the others here haven't.

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Because you say you have on an anonymous internet forum? Hehe.
I work the stuff daily, now. Hopefully I passed my recent security certification exam. Other than this I don't talk about my work... don't need to, not trying desperately to impress people like you do.

... I don't give a crap if you are impressed or not. I couldn't care less.

I'm just calling you out on your incessant BS you know nothing about... and what little you think you do... you got from some highly unquallified "journalist" who was pushing the proaganda their editor told them to push if they wanted to keep their job.

Me, I don't give a damn... I've done so much of this crap for so many years... its not exciting... many years ago it was, for a while but I'm tired of dealing with all the BS that goes with it.

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you just blow smoke.

smoothy this is exactly what you are doing. So you were introduced to a hawaiian pizza, and you say you get out, you mean to say no one in the US every thought of putting pineapple on a pizza or eating pizza for lunch? What do you think we eat, roo burgers?

any way I'm tired of your "incessant BS". You spend far too much time here to be the big business man you claim, maybe you are just a nerd on the night shift with nothing better to do

No... that bit with the Pizza was just some useless but true information... no your guys didn't think of it... they ordered it from a local pizza shop that had been making it for years... I'm a traditionalist... I like REAL Napolitan pizza made by a real pizziola ina wood fired pizza oven... Real easy to find fantastc Pizza in Italy... and its way better than New York Style Pizza.

You are another one than just NK that spends lots of time online spewing crap, pretending to know everything... because you saw it on some news show. What people like like you two can't stand is when you come across someone who's actually been in the middle of some of this stuff that knows and calls you out on it.

Its simple... I've been there... you saw it on TV. Huge difference. Why you guys get so uppity and jealous about it is beyond comprehension. If you had a clue about what I do all day at work......you would see how I can manage to be online all the time.

I sit in front of seven computers monitoring much of the mid-atlantic networks, and undersea trunk cables, covering a LOT of geographic area....spanning the Atlantic ocean. For years I was one of the guys who did all the running....these days I call out other people to do much of it....I still do some of it, just not that exclusively. Its called a promotion in this part of the world.

I have another computer I uses just to mess around on I appropriated when we had our last round of layoffs a few years ago.

Smoothy it isn't that simple. There is a difference between something that is claimed to "no longer to exist" through incompetence and something that doesn't exist because of a willful attempt to pervert a particular Act.

These are areas of degree that can only be determined by the actual or circumstantial evidence presented. In other words, to gain a conviction for a intentional criminal act of the type you are talking about, one would need evidence to show this was not a result of a particular class of circumstances.

Tuttyd, it really is that simple. The claim they made and the excuse they gave... is patently false... and a flat out lie, her computer crashing would not affect the copies required to be on the server that were backed up and archived.. For years all emails MUST legally be archived and made available in case of a legal case (government and larger businesses)... or for archival purposes PARTICULARLY with the government.

Corporations are also legally required to do this as well. 20 years ago, emails WERE on the individuals computer, not a common server... but roughly 7-9 years ago (don't remember an exact year and I'm too tired to go looking for it now) they were required to centralize everything so the federally required records can be kept. In case of criminal wrongdoing they couldn't be conveniently LOST by any means... just like now with the IRS.

Not even last weeks emails would be lost on a server crash....the last two years would be backed up off site in legally required archives. That's just how these things are handled...because there are laws about accountability. People can and should go to jail if they were ignoring the law.

And most people apparently aren't aware of it based on some of the arguments presented in this thread.

I don't know if other countries have similar laws.....but here in the USA we do. We were legally required to do it at my comapany....and they spelled out the real reasons to us at the time years ago.

I don't think anyone is denying that a particular Act actually exists, but it is an entirely different question as to HOW the Act was circumvented. In other words, a willful attempt to destroy records for unlawful purposes, or gross incompetence, which may or may not be a severe criminal act.

I am not saying there are no penalties for failing to adhere to the Act. What I am saying is that the penalties differ depending upon degree of liability.

Everyone keeps saying the law the law. Well if you have never seen it here is some information on it.

The Law Requires Email Archiving | ITworld

Yes, that fits in pretty much with what I have posted. As far as I can see anyway.

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I don't think anyone is denying that a particular Act actually exists, but it is an entirely different question as to HOW the Act was circumvented. In other words, a willful attempt to destroy records for unlawful purposes, or gross incompetence, which may or may not be a severe criminal act.

I am not saying there are no penalties for failing to adhere to the Act. What I am saying is that the penalties differ depending upon degree of liability.

You might not be denying it... but some of the others actually were.

THey only way it could be circumvented is by willful action. I can't say how often the backups are made, but for the sake of argument... once a day is being generous... because incrimental backups are done throughout the day most likely... the backups are removed and archived because the retention time is many years... so backups are periodically taken for offsite safe keeping... this likely happens weekly. There will be multiple backups archived offsite at any given moment... many of them having much of the same information only newer ones have more recent information.

And besides all of that... the NSA no doubt has its tenticles into all of this as well so they have their copies too... and nobody has direct access to all of that unless the orders come all the way from the top. Which I don't believe was ordered. I think its limited to just the IRS itself.

However everything between Learner and the WHite house... will be replicated on the White houses server archives as well.

This is not a national secret...anyone working corporate IT in the USA knows all of this. Because they follow the same laws.

No its, not the only way, it is the most likely way. Important difference.

One would need to show in legal terms that it is the only possible explanation. As far as I am aware this hasn't been done yet.

smoothy it may interest you to know that I am not just someone who spends time online I have done many things, have chalked up a few firsts along the way and continue to do what I can, If I am here at all is that I have debated over many years with people like Ex and Tom on these sites. I know it is a fruitless pursuit, but hey it beats Facebook or Twitter or sending Stupid SMS. Yes someone might have bought a Pizza, is it a crime, where I come from wood fired pizza has vanished, no demand, in fact pizza is vanishing. many other things are vanishing, once we had migrants that appreciated such things now we only have kabab eaters and curry houses and inediable food