Ask Me Help Desk - Is this a generational way of thinking or actually founded in reality ?

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Time for you to leave the science learning you got in the '70s and then handed out after that.

Translation = You don't have a clue, so you decide to become insulting. Why don't you try finding some support for the ridiculous idea that a person with female chromosomes will have male genitalia? Better yet, just be honest and admit you somehow got confused.

You can also become honest and point to the place in the article you linked where it states a person with female (XX) sex chromosomes will develop male genitalia. I will wait patiently...for a hundred years.

Note. I'll save you the time. I've already searched it and it's not there. Try again...harder. Much, much harder. A LOT harder.

And you will really post THIS??!! "Please do honest research." Good grief. Pot calls kettle black!!

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Note. I'll save you the time. I've already searched it and it's not there. Try again...harder. Much, much harder. A LOT harder.

And you will really post THIS??!! "Please do honest research." Good grief. Pot calls kettle black!!

Ah, you are refusing to seek the truth. Okay. What documentation will you accept and maybe believe?

How about this as a beginning?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0205084203.htm

I'm refusing to seek the truth? Between the two of us, I'm the only one who knew enough to search your article and discover (gasp!!) that it did not give one ounce of support for your insane idea that a person with XX chromosomes will develop male genitalia. Doesn't this kind of dishonesty become embarrassing to you at some point? It really should.

I will accept documentation that actually supports the POV you are advancing and not just chasing rabbits.

The second link you posted also does not even mention chromosomes. Why am I not surprised?

Maybe I can help you. When you state an opinion that a person with female chromosomes (XX) will have male genitalia, then you really need to find an article that actually discusses CHROMOSOMES. Is that clear now?

And you really call yourself a retired librarian??? Wow.

I was trying to keep it simple and begin with the involvement of hormones, which involvement you have already spit on. Plus you spit on the very idea that chromosomes were involved.

And I've noticed you haven't hesitated to spit on me too. And I'm guessing you are one of the problem patrons we sigh about in the library break-room. I'm tempted to call your home library and ask if they have that reaction to you.

So this really doesn't get embarrassing to you? "Oh look. I've linked two articles that say nothing at all concerning my absurd idea that people with XX chromosomes will have male genitalia. What? That's not satisfactory? Well, I never! You are spitting on me!"

I'd be embarrassed beyond description.

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I was trying to keep it simple and begin with the involvement of hormones

I'll be nice and just refer to this as an untruth since we have been talking about chromosomes for the past fifteen or so posts.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So this really doesn't get embarrassing to you? "Oh look. I've linked two articles that say nothing at all concerning my absurd idea that people with XX chromosomes will have male genitalia. What? That's not satisfactory? Well, I never! You are spitting on me!"

Please pay attention. I'm responding to you regarding the first term mentioned, chromosomes.

If you can't pay attention and respond appropriately, this lesson will be postponed until after I have taken a few tranquilizers. Sure wish Athos was here, but I betcha he's watching. I do get occasional signals from him. (Ha ha!!! And about a half hour after I typed that, I got another very obvious Athos-signal!!!)

Oh, and btw, I'm a member of the LGBTQ+ community.

So first you say, "I was trying to keep it simple and begin with the involvement of hormones," but then you claim, '"Please pay attention. I'm responding to you regarding the first term mentioned, chromosomes." And you were doing that by linking to two articles that said nothing about chromosomes?

Have you always been this confused???

Why is your community membership important here?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So first you say, "I was trying to keep it simple and begin with the involvement of hormones," but then you claim, '"Please pay attention. I'm responding to you regarding the first term mentioned, chromosomes." And you were doing that by linking to two articles that said nothing about chromosomes?

I had started out with a Wikipedia article about the transwoman. You ignored that and started tossing around chromosomes. As I had posted, I decided to begin by talking about the role of hormones and go from there. Well, that didn't work for you.

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Have you always been this confused???

Um, I'm not the one confused.

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Why is your community membership important here?

Just to intrigue you. And I'm very proud to be a member. It's definitely helped my husband and me in our long marriage.

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I had started out with a Wikipedia article about the transwoman. You ignored that and started tossing around chromosomes. As I had posted, I decided to begin by talking about the role of hormones and go from there. Well, that didn't work for you.

Sorry, but that's just complete garbage. I don't mean to be rude, but it gets old after a while. Learn to tell the truth. You started the conversation about chromosomes by posting, "Yes, that person is male-looking when "he" takes off his clothes, but hormones and chromosomes say female." I replied, "A completely absurd statement for which there is no support whatsoever, and which all of science plainly contradicts. It's a ridiculous idea to suggest that a person with male genitalia has female sex chromosomes." It was after that that you replied with two links, so try a little honesty. Good grief. Have you no shame?

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Just to intrigue you

That group membership has long caused me to pray for you.

So, let me just pull together some pieces here.
While it is perfectly possible, and acceptable, to change your outwards appearance to the opposite sex/gender, it is currently not possible to change the base building blocks of DNA, chromosomes, that define sex and gender at a molecular level.
Also at what point is transition considered to be complete. I would suggest that until a full, surgical, reassignment is performed then the person is still in a transient state and should be consider their birth gender until that is complete.
Changing official documents, etc while still transitioning and intact, makes a complete mockery of the process for those people suffering from serious gender diaspora.
Does that about sum things up ?

And for Wondergirl especially, What is a Woman ?

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Does that about sum things up ?

All good comments.

Either there is bioethics or there is not . If not than all types of cans of worms are open including eugenics,euthanasia ,cloning ,abortions and human genetic modifications .

A person's sex is determined by how the body develops. (with rare exceptions ).If someone believes they were not born into the right gender/sex then that is a mental problem that needs to be addressed . Interventions with surgery is enabling a deeper problem There is no self outside one's body. They are one and the same.

Even more to the point, a person's sex is determined by his/her sex chromosomes and the resulting hormones the body produces in response to those chromosomal "instructions".

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Even more to the point, a person's sex is determined by his/her sex chromosomes and the resulting hormones the body produces in response to those chromosomal "instructions".

And for transgenders, those are not the "usual" ones. Plus, what the brain is saying to the individual is important too.

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And for transgenders, those are not the "usual" ones

From the perspective of chromosomes and hormones they are not different. What they are thinking is certainly different, but it doesn't make it reality.

Someone is avoiding the difficult questions, not that I'm surprised really.

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And for Wondergirl especially, What is a Woman ?

We wait...patiently.

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Originally Posted by Curlyben

Someone is avoiding the difficult questions, not that I'm surprised really.

I have replied to various aspects of transgenderism but was told I'm wrong or don't know what I'm talking about or need a scientific explanation (btw, available by googling). Sooo, I gave up, ate lunch, and now am feasting on homemade Christmas cookies and coffee.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

We wait...patiently.

Start with this:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/transgender-facts/art-20266812

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Originally Posted by Curlyben

Someone is avoiding the difficult questions, not that I'm surprised really.

The basics - how transgenderism came to be:

https://brainworldmagazine.com/what-...gender-people/

Please.
And for Wondergirl especially, What is a Woman ?

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I have replied to various aspects of transgenderism but was told I'm wrong or don't know what I'm talking about or need a scientific explanation (btw, available by googling).

The truth is, you made a laughable claim that people with female chromosomes can be TG and have male genitalia. I have asked you repeatedly to provide support for that idea and you have been unable to.

Predictably, you have provided yet another link that says nothing about chromosomes. We all know that you are just providing links to articles that you evidently don't even read. I don't know about the others, but I have wearied of this waste of time. If you can come up with anything supporting your "chromosomes scream female" POV, then we'll see how it goes.

Still unanswered. "I guess, especially for Wondergirl, the question now is, What is a woman ?"

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

The truth is, you made a laughable claim that people with female chromosomes can be TG and have male genitalia. I have asked you repeatedly to provide support for that idea and you have been unable to.

Predictably, you have provided yet another link that says nothing about chromosomes. We all know that you are just providing links to articles that you evidently don't even read. I don't know about the others, but I have wearied of this waste of time. If you can come up with anything supporting your "chromosomes scream female" POV, then we'll see how it goes.

Still unanswered. "I guess, especially for Wondergirl, the question now is, What is a woman ?"

I said, let's start with the basics. Did you read the basics yet?

You did not say that. We were talking about chromosomes as I showed you clearly yesterday. If you cannot be honest, then talk to someone else.

Is this a generational way of thinking or actually founded in reality ? - Page 3 (askmehelpdesk.com)

Still unanswered. "I guess, especially for Wondergirl, the question now is, What is a woman ?"

***Before we examine the neuroscience let’s look at what ancient belief systems tell us. Judaism lists six genders. Atlanta rabbi Joshua Lesser says that an examination of Judaism’s sacred texts shows that a simple “male” and “female” binary is “inaccurate.” The six genders are:

Zachar: A person with male characteristics
Nekeivah: A person with female characteristics
Androgynos: A person with male and female characteristics (149 references to this in Mishna and Talmud; 350 in classical Midrash and Jewish law codes)
Tumtum: A person with indeterminate characteristics (181 references in Mishna and Talmud; 335 in classical Midrash and Jewish law codes)
Ay’lonit: A person classified as female at birth, develops male characteristics at puberty and is infertile (80 references in Mishna and Talmud; 40 in classical Midrash and Jewish law codes)
Saris: A person classified as male at birth who develops female characteristics at puberty and/or lacks male characteristics (156 references in Mishna and Talmud; 379 in classical Midrash and Jewish law codes)

Native Americans believe there are five genders: “female,” “male,” “two-spirit female,” “two-spirit male,” and “transgendered.” LGBT Native Americans adopted the term “two spirit” from the Ojibwe language in 1989, according to Duane Brayboy in Indian Country Today. Brayboy notes that “the Navajo refer to two spirits as Nádleehí (one who is transformed); among the Lakota is Winkté (a male who behaves as a female); Niizh Manidoowag (two spirit) in Ojibwe; Hemaneh (half-man, half-woman) in Cheyenne; to name a few.”

Christianity lacks this specificity. Carol Shedd, a devout 89-year-old Episcopalian in Wellesley, Massachusetts says that Christians who oppose transgender individuals, “forget the teaching in Genesis 1:26–27 that all human beings are created in the image and likeness of God, there are no exceptions.” Gordon D. Kaufman, a Mennonite and Harvard Divinity Professor writes in his book, “In the beginning … Creativity”: “One reason we humans have found it so difficult to understand creativity [Kaufman’s term for God] is because we have all too often thought of nature as in a kind of harmony, a balance; but that is a mistake. All systems are in some respects out of balance, and sometimes the present order gives way to a new better-adapted order … The tipping point is that instant when what had been ordinary quantitative change suddenly leads to qualitative change.” He quotes philosopher Mark Taylor who wrote, “Life continues only as long as things are out of balance.”

Dr. Toby Kell, a retired senior radiologist in Needham, Massachusetts (one of the world’s top gender reassignment clinics is in Boston) says about 10% of babies are born with misleading sexual organs. “You may find a child born with female organs, but a large knob where the clitoris should be. The gender identification of babies can be challenging, sometimes a child has the genitalia of both sexes, or the outer appearance of one gender while carrying internal organs of another. Doctors assign one gender and hope for the best.”

Although this field of neuroscience is in its infancy, what we do know, is that the old argument of nature versus nurture, shows that nature most often has the last word. The genitals and the brain acquire masculine or feminine traits at different stages of development in utero.***

https://brainworldmagazine.com/what-...gender-people/

Still no mention of chromosomes, and still no answer to this. Still unanswered. "I guess, especially for Wondergirl, the question now is, What is a woman ?"

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Still no mention of chromosomes, and still no answer to this. Still unanswered. "I guess, especially for Wondergirl, the question now is, What is a woman ?"

I'm starting at the beginning. There will be a quiz tomorrow. Chromosomes will be in a future post. SOON

Still waiting.....

UK's Sunak on Gender: 'A Man Is a Man and a Woman Is a Woman' (youtube.com)

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Still waiting.....

You'll need lots of coffee. You will also be waiting a long time for this. "Chromosomes will be in a future post. SOON." I hope it's a great deal more accurate than the nonsense discussed above.

I sometimes think I went to bed on earth and woke up on Mars when we are having these irrational, ludicrous discussions about how many genders there are. There are two, and they are determined, 999 times out of a thousand, by sex chromosomes being either XX or XY. End of story.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You'll need lots of coffee. You will also be waiting a long time for this. "Chromosomes will be in a future post. SOON." I hope it's a great deal more accurate than the nonsense discussed above.

I sometimes think I went to bed on earth and woke up on Mars when we are having these irrational, ludicrous discussions about how many genders there are. There are two, and they are determined, 999 times out of a thousand, by sex chromosomes being either XX or XY. End of story.

You are very wrong. And I'm tired of the put-downs. Do your own research. Goodbye.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

You are very wrong. And I'm tired of the put-downs. Do your own research. Goodbye.

So , rather than throwing a childish tamtrum, why not show us why our position is incorrect, preferably without disconnected URLs and meandering copy&pastes.

Seems to be a simple question really, What is a Woman ?

I'm out of coffee.

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So , rather than throwing a childish tamtrum, why not show us why our position is incorrect, preferably without disconnected URLs and meandering copy&pastes.

The question of the day and a really good one. I suspect it will also go unanswered.

I oftentimes think that WG is as aware as the rest of us of the utter lack of support for her positions. Rather than admit that, she seems to want to suggest that I am the problem with my "putdowns". Too bad.

https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net...sQ&oe=65C6951C

I have a clear example where this logic leads .

Clueless Joe is on a roll . The Senate has now confirmed 200 Federal Court nominees by Joe.

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Democrats were ecstatic as the Senate voted 66-28 Wednesday afternoon to confirm the 200th nominee — Angela Martinez, tapped by the administration to fill a vacancy in the District of Arizona.
During a news conference on the Capitol steps, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said that Democrats were not only on track to confirm more lifetime judgeships than the Trump administration, but also that the slate of Biden nominees have been among some of the most diverse ever selected for the federal judiciary.
“For too long, the bench didn’t look like America,” Schumer said, “it only looked like a portion of America. We’re making our courts look more like America, something we can all be proud of.”

Senate Dems celebrate 200th Biden admin judicial confirmation amid partisan slugfest over latest nominees | Courthouse News Service

Most of them are radicals that will impact the country long after Joe goes to level 9 of the Inferno.

One such judge was being scrutinized by the Senate yesterday . Sarah Netburn is being considered for a spot on the 2nd District in New York.
The questioning centers around her decision to allow a male serial child rapist; who now says he is a she ;to be transferred to a woman's prison. Ted Cruz led the questioning on the issue.

MUST WATCH: Chaos Erupts When Senator Cruz Calls Out Woke Biden Judge (youtube.com)

We can all be proud (and we know what they mean by pride ) .

Mr Rodgers explains it simply

Mr. Rogers Everybody's Fancy - YouTube

Watch this debate between Charlie Kirk and a teacher. The beginning is about the concept of a federal education approach opposed to having education decided at the local level, and school choice. They get into the gender issue between 8:36 -10:00 mark of the video. This is what is being taught to the children.

CHARLIE KIRK SHUTS DOWN School Teacher What is a Woman

UK Supreme Court clarified the issue legally. At issue was could transformer men be considered women under the 2010 Equality Act

Equality Act 2010

The ruling was straight forward and logical .

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264. For all these reasons, this examination of the language of the EA 2010, its context and purpose, demonstrate that the words “sex”, “woman” and “man” in sections 11 and 212(1) mean (and were always intended to mean) biological sex, biological woman and biological man.

“The unanimous decision of this court is that ‘woman’ and ‘sex’ in the Equality Act 2010 refer to biological women and biological sex”

For Women Scotland Ltd (Appellant) v The Scottish Ministers (Respondent)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GotPS3HW...jpg&name=small
J.K. Rowling on X: "I love it when a plan comes together. #SupremeCourt #WomensRights https://t.co/agOkWmhPgb" / X

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GosUamSX...jpg&name=small

Meanwhile on this side of the pond ,Judges are slapping down parents who silently protest men pretending to be women competing in woman's sports .

Judge Rules School Can Ban 'XX' Protests Over Males in Girls' Sports - NH Journal