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is there a 3rd for probably or maybe ? Or if not ,with those caveats in mind I will put yes I will be .But I am not vaxed yet . The last test done recently showed I have antibodies from my illness last year .
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
The CDC warns that people who have had the virus and people who have been vaccinated can still get Covid-19, and both can transmit the virus. For people who have already had the virus, the level of transmission is unknown. For people who are vaccinated, research shows their viral load is lower, reducing transmission.
Thank you Dr Athos, I now no longer need to consult my GP on the matter.
The way out of this for all of us is mandatory mask wearing, mandatory distancing, mandatory vaccination and mandatory restrictions on travel. What has spread the virus more than anything else is travel, and stupid gatherings
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
You're welcome - I'll send you my bill in the morning.
refer it to medicare, they pay all my consultations
CDC becoming one of the least credible sources . Give them another couple of days and their contradictory guidelines will be reversed or amended again. The White House is pushing back against the CDC and the compliant press over the news from Mass, So expect the CDC to revise their comments or clarify their comments to fall in line with Quid's playbook .
I see what is happening here . We are moving from vax recommendationsand persuasion to vax coercion and mandates . The headlines read the CDC says the "war has changed " . Their over heated rhetoric is designed to change my mind <sarc>
The first step in the mandate is to threaten people's livelihood . In that effort the government has recruited allies in the shadow state private industry . Government mandates cannot be far behind even though Roberts in the Obamacare case wrote “Construing the Commerce Clause to permit Congress to regulate individuals precisely because they are doing nothing would open a new and potentially vast domain to congressional authority.”
It still comes down to the idea that governments think that liberty can be suspended when governments decide it is a public safety issue.
If they try to make the vax compulsory, it is going to be trouble. There are a lot of people out there who still value liberty.
When we began winding down restrictions there were far more people dying from covid than are today.
Despite ‘Delta’ Alarmism, US COVID Deaths Are at Lowest Level Since March 2020, Harvard and Stanford Professors Explain - Foundation for Economic Education (fee.org)
Roughly half the country has been vaccinated .85% of the vulnerable over 65 crowd has been vaxed.
“By immunizing the elderly and many other vulnerable people, we have provided them with excellent protection against severe disease in case they get infected. Also contributing is widespread natural immunity from recovered COVID patients. Though cases may rise, deaths will no longer follow in proportion. "
Of course, proponents of big government and government officials themselves will be the last ones to acknowledge the reality that the most dangerous phase of this pandemic has long since come to an end in the US. Why? Because the rhetoric of “emergency” and “crisis” is the government’s favorite tool to use in expanding and maintaining its power over our lives.
Ben I want to thank you. If I expressed contrary views on FakeBook or Twitter i would've already been cancelled .
Exactly correct. Best data I could find is from Great Britain where cases have spiked greatly, but deaths remain very low. This same trend is true in many states here. With most of the older folks vaccinated, the new cases are likely in younger people whose risk of death is very, very low.Quote:
Of course, proponents of big government and government officials themselves will be the last ones to acknowledge the reality that the most dangerous phase of this pandemic has long since come to an end in the US. Why? Because the rhetoric of “emergency” and “crisis” is the government’s favorite tool to use in expanding and maintaining its power over our lives.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
That is what I have heard is the situation in Florida .It is the 25-40 year old that are spiking .Quote:
With most of the older folks vaccinated, the new cases are likely in younger people whose risk of death is very, very low.
What has really helped with the latest UK wave is a high uptake of vaccinations, so while people do get infected the effects are generally mild with low hospitalisations and deaths.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
So you are saying that the vaccine is being given to people who then get sick anyway but not so sick as they would have been?
I don't think your statement is entirely correct. The number of new cases was well over 40K per day for a number of days. If all those people had been vaccinated, then the vaccine is plainly not as effective in preventing the disease as we had hoped. I imagine that Tom's point about the age range of those being infected is probably the best explanation of the dramatically lower death rate.
But I do see your point. It does seem to be true that the vaccine, if not preventing Covid, does seem to make an infection not as dangerous as it might have been.
Yes vaccines do that, no vaccine is 100% effective although the H1N1 vaccines I have been given in recent years appear very effective but then they have had years to perfect it
and the H1N1 needs annual boosters because of mutations . Again evolution . The H1N1 isnot as deadly except for high risk people . There are no mandates ;even in schools for the annual outbreak .
As 'clete points out that's how these vaccines work.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Most of the current crop of positive infections are classed as asymptomatic, ie infected, but not displaying symptoms.
Our Tack and Trace systems has caused a pingmageddon with recent large scale events, so people have been testing to see if they really do need to isolate for 10 days.
This has had a knock on effect all of it's own.
Worth a read: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/57889961
They're advertised as being 90-95% effective. I assume "effective" means they prevent the disease. Perhaps not.Quote:
As 'clete points out that's how these vaccines work.
90-95% effective in reducing symptoms, which they do very well.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Remember asymptomatic people, while infected, are not actually unwell with this disease..
Don't think that is true.Quote:
90-95% effective in reducing symptoms, which they do very well.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/covid...lained-5112463Quote:
“The formula for this calculation is risk of contracting illness among unvaccinated (placebo) group minus the risk among vaccinated group, over the risk among unvaccinated groups,” Jain says.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/13/l...-efficacy.html
As infectious diseases are not my forte I can only comment on what's reported.
Either way the UK has a high rate of vaccination, 70%+ overall, and, despite increased infection rates, reducing hospitalisation and death rates.
Same thing happening here. Question is why. Hard to say, but it does seem to be good news.Quote:
despite increased infection rates, reducing hospitalisation and death rates.
Perhaps covid 19 will ultimately become as benign as the common cold
Here, (US), the infections are increasing (64%), the hospitalizations are increasing (46%), and the deaths are increasing (33%).Quote:
Originally Posted by Curlyben
The figures are as of July 30,2021 and are the percentage average increase over 7 days from the previous 7 days. 4 variants have now been found in Florida. Delta has an enormously greater transmissable factor than the previous.
More than ever, the proper action to defeat the virus is to get vaccinated. Those who worry about their "liberty" and their "rights" are leading their followers to sickness and death.
Their real concern is money and being elected to public office.
Quid calls it the pandemic of the unvaccinated . The CDC scientists sings a different tune identifying 35,000 infections among the vaccinated EACH WEEK ! https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...4-b148d8f75165 Insults, coercion, and contradictory messages are not good persuasive techniques .
https://scontent.fmem1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...44&oe=612FB61C
For which Biden is clearly to blame??Quote:
Here, (US), the infections are increasing (64%), the hospitalizations are increasing (46%), and the deaths are increasing (33%).
That's exactly what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
You fail to note that the 35,000 is out of 165 MILLION vaccinated - a tiny percentage (.0002) - and that includes comorbidities.Quote:
The CDC scientists sings a different tune identifying 35,000 infections among the vaccinated EACH WEEK !
The unvaccinated are 8 times more likely to become infected than the vaccinated. They are 25 times more likely to be hospitalized. And 25 times more likely to die.
The lesson is clear - GET VACCINATED.
Also from your link:
Given higher transmissibility and current vaccine coverage, universal masking is essential to reduce transmission of the Delta variant
You failed to note that it is, "35,000 infections among the vaccinated EACH WEEK." And bear in mind that those are only the symptomatic cases. Asymptomatic cases would likely add several tens of thousands of cases per week. Now you're talking about perhaps three million cases per year.Quote:
You fail to note that the 35,000 is out of 165 MILLION vaccinated - a tiny percentage (.0002)
panic why don't you
Honesty and clarity are not panic.
This whole thing has been panic, panic in a population that won't protect itself
Australia won’t protect itself? Maybe you should address that.
It is being addressed even as we speak, but I speak more generally, for throughout the world this thing has been allowed to spread through foolishness. We protected this nation by protecting our borders even though it took a little while to realise the threat and so the first wave was an inconvenience. The delta variant arrived with returning travellers and we continue to protect ourselves even though infection rates are low by world experience, 300 cases a day and perhaps one death a day.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
The lockdowns are an extreme measure but there is a recalcicant element in the community that doesn't respond
Eradication is and was impossible . In human history only one virus was eradicated through vaccination (small pox);and that was because it did not mutate .It took decades of a global response to eradicate it .
Covid mutates rapidly and is zoonotic .It was derived from bats ;most probably with the assistance of Gain of Function "reserarch" .[FONT=Source Sans Pro, Verdana, sans-serif][COLOR=#444444]New research shows it can also infect animals, and for the first time, variants have been able to infect mice(in laboratories )
. Veterinarians in UK and Texas have discovered the virus in dogs .It has also been discovered in the mink population .[/COLOR][/FONT]
Strawman. Nobody but you has even mentioned "eradication". The goal is control so that the population achieves herd immunity. With the Delta variant, that has increased from what it originally was pegged at - all the more reason to get vaccinated.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
DeSantis decries the feds for using their power (which they haven't done) while he is threatening to use his governmental power to withdraw funding from any school districts that fail to toe the line that he draws in the sand.
His supporters will completely ignore the contradiction.
DeSantis has legal authority over the schools. The feds do not have legal authority to enforce mask rules or to mandate vaccinations. There is no contradiction.
What is herd immunity for a disease that rapidly mutates ? How many Greek letters are left ? Conservative estimates are now at 90% to achieve herd immunity . And then what ? The virus has already show it can infect and be transmitted by vaxed and previously infected hosts .So herd immunity is a fictional false promise in this case .
It is especially true if you think being vaxed = sufficent anti-body protection to achieve herd immunity .
Scientists at Rockefeller University put it to the test .
Novavax’s Manufacturing Issues Are Solvable, But Covid-19 Vaccine Herd Immunity May Not Be (forbes.com)Quote:
The researchers analyzed patients convalescing from acute SARS-CoV-2 infections and found that they produced B-cell responses for up to a year after infection. During that year, so-called memory cells not only increased in absolute numbers, but also produced broad and potent antibodies that were active in fighting both the original virus and to many of the variants. When convalescing patients then received an mRNA vaccine after initial recovery, they produced even higher levels of plasma neutralizing antibodies. However, in naïve (not previously infected) individuals, the administration of a vaccine followed by a booster also increased the quantity of antibodies, but the antibodies lacked the potency of those produced in previously infected patients who received subsequent mRNA vaccination.
As such, the probability of a vaccine strategy providing “Herd Immunity” has moved from arguable to improbable. Part of the problem is that SARS-CoV-2 is not following the patterns of previous influenza epidemics. It is not a flu that peaks and then disappears within weeks or months. This is an ever shape-shifting virus, finding new ways to outmaneuver our defenses as evidenced by the occurrence of so-called breakthrough infections. Simply being vaccinated does not ensure that one will not become infected, spread the virus, or become ill (albeit with milder symptoms). Recent data from Israel, the UK, and Provincetown, MA, show the limits of vaccine protection. We must realize that Covid-19 vaccines are now prophylactic therapeutics that mitigate, and sometimes prevent the most serious consequences of SARS-CoV-2 infection.
People love to toss around the term "herd immunity" without having any clear idea of what it means. That might be because, in all likelihood, there is no real definition available, or at least nothing with any real specifics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
The science is clear and action reflects current knowledge. No one knows what the future holds, and that is no reason for doing nothing. Your constant critique of what is happening is hard to understand. Like so many on the far-right, you appear to actually want the disease to infect as many as possible. I hope I'm wrong.
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