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  • Mar 24, 2021, 06:33 PM
    paraclete
    I have no need of a gun
  • Mar 24, 2021, 11:35 PM
    jlisenbe
    You don't need a gun until...you need a gun.
  • Mar 25, 2021, 05:10 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    as easy as buying a gun


    Haven't bought a gun recently, have you? If we could get voter security that high (background check), all repubs would be happy.
    To get a covid vaccine you need to prove your eligibility/residency . They say it is to prevent line jumping and vaccination tourism . Actually a photo id is required for most things in life
  • Mar 25, 2021, 05:24 AM
    tomder55
    Who said the right to own a gun is dependent on the need to own one ? There are many reasons for owning guns. I know someone who collects them . I know people who own them so they can go to the range and do target practice. I know people who have them for protection and the guns never leave their secured gun safe . (when seconds count the police are minutes away) I know hunters who use their guns all season . I know people who own them solely because it is their right to do so .


    “Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence…” George Washington .
  • Mar 25, 2021, 02:50 PM
    talaniman
    Gladly listen to your take and solutions to these tragic shootings instead of the usual defense of 2nd amendment rights which amounts to a excuse to do NOTHING.

    Show us what you got.
  • Mar 25, 2021, 03:20 PM
    paraclete
    Ban all automatic weapons for a start afterall the founding fathers didn't need them for their militia
  • Mar 25, 2021, 03:31 PM
    jlisenbe
    Automatic weapons are already banned.
  • Mar 25, 2021, 03:35 PM
    paraclete
    really, what about automatic hand guns, automatic shot guns, self loading rifles
  • Mar 25, 2021, 03:37 PM
    jlisenbe
    There is a difference between automatic and SEMI-automatic. Learn your terms.
  • Mar 25, 2021, 03:39 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Ban all automatic weapons for a start afterall the founding fathers didn't need them for their militia
    Automatic weapons have been banned since the days of Al Capone. Funny . that did not prevent the Valentine's Day Massacre .
  • Mar 25, 2021, 03:45 PM
    jlisenbe
    To be clear, auto weapons cannot be imported or sold new, but you can purchase already owned auto weapons. The paperwork is staggering. I know a collector who owns both an AK and an M-16. Very hard to do. Or at least that's how it was explained to me.

    when I was a boy someone (a cop I think) fired a Thompson sub for us. It was amazing.
  • Mar 25, 2021, 04:15 PM
    talaniman
    It's okay if you righties got no helpful ideas. I didn't expect any, but spare me the technical sermons. I asked for thoughts and ideas to stop gun violence or mass shootings by NUTS!
  • Mar 25, 2021, 04:33 PM
    tomder55
    Got me . When I was a kid there was gun clubs in almost every high school in the country . In 1975, New York state had over 80 school districts with rifle teams. What changed ? The moral compass of the nation ?
  • Mar 25, 2021, 04:46 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Got me . When I was a kid there was gun clubs in almost every high school in the country . In 1975, New York state had over 80 school districts with rifle teams. What changed ? The moral compass of the nation ?

    What changed? "Deinstitutionalization of mental hospitals [that began in the 1960s as a way to improve the treatment of the mentally ill while also cutting government budgets] came into play in 1970 in the United States....During these days, state mental hospitals were regarded as institutions that deprived the mentally ill patients their freedom to associate with family and community members within the society. For instance, the United States Congress approved the Community Mental Health Centers Act that facilitated deinstitutionalization, thus getting out the mentally ill persons from confinements of the custodial institutions into deliberate medication at the community mental health institutions."
    https://www.lawyersnjurists.com/arti...itals-in-1970/

    "Deinstitutionalization is the name given to the policy of moving severely mentally ill people out of large state institutions and then closing part or all of those institutions; it has been a major contributing factor to the mental illness crisis."
    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...l/excerpt.html

    Deinstitutionalization has created the situation where families and the community did not, and do not, support their mentally ill who didn't take their meds on time and at the correct dosage. The problems that resulted were, and still are, legion.
  • Mar 25, 2021, 05:19 PM
    tomder55
    well if that was the cause then Tal has his answer . I almost worked at one of those institutions. It was disgusting and morally reprehensible to treat patients that way .Handcuffs, leg irons, and whips were found in the hospital I almost was employed at . I was grossed out during my interview and declined the job opportunity .
  • Mar 25, 2021, 05:21 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Got me . When I was a kid there was gun clubs in almost every high school in the country . In 1975, New York state had over 80 school districts with rifle teams. What changed ? The moral compass of the nation ?

    Lock the nuts up, if you can identify them before they commit mass murder, to do that you need the thought police. A moral compass only works with sane people, it doesn't work with drug dealers, addicts, and the just plain nuts of various hues. To start with no one under 25 years of age should be allowed to possess a gun, or for that matter, a weapon of any kind. Teaching kids to use weapons is like teaching kids to drink, they get a taste for it, and they are more into fantasy today than they ever were
  • Mar 25, 2021, 05:28 PM
    jlisenbe
    The murder rate now is about the same that it was in 1960.
  • Mar 25, 2021, 05:31 PM
    paraclete
    and that justifies what, 400 million guns? you need to take a good long look at yourselves and ask a few important questions, like what is a human life worth, certainly not more than the price of a gun in the US
  • Mar 25, 2021, 05:44 PM
    jlisenbe
    The number of guns is not the problem.
  • Mar 25, 2021, 06:37 PM
    paraclete
    No the number of people with access to guns is the problem
  • Mar 25, 2021, 06:56 PM
    jlisenbe
    Does that explain why 99.9 percent of legal gun owners never murder another person?
  • Mar 25, 2021, 07:31 PM
    paraclete
    It's the 0.1% who are the problem, hidden in plain sight, and you don't get it, if they are deprived of weapons the other 99.9% are safer and don't get murdered
  • Mar 25, 2021, 07:46 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    It's the 0.1% who are the problem, hidden in plain sight, and you don't get it, if they are deprived of weapons the other 99.9% are safer and don't get murdered
    "You don't get it." Is that the reason I was the one who brought it up and not you? Well at any rate, how do you go about identifying the 0.1% prior to them becoming part of the 0.1%, because afterwards it's kind of a no-brainer? Or do you really think we allow convicted murderers to keep their guns in prison?
  • Mar 25, 2021, 08:15 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    "You don't get it." Is that the reason I was the one who brought it up and not you? Well at any rate, how do you go about identifying the 0.1% prior to them becoming part of the 0.1%, because afterwards it's kind of a no-brainer? Or do you really think we allow convicted murderers to keep their guns in prison?

    don't be rediculous, you know we are not speaking of the prison population they are part of the 99.9%. As I said earlier you need the thought police or failing that, then reduction of opportunity, we know it works, it is a proven solution. What is a solution is a no tolerance policy, you take a life, yours is forfeit, summary execution, you know the Judge Dredd solution
  • Mar 26, 2021, 04:35 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    As I said earlier you need the thought police or failing that, then reduction of opportunity, we know it works, it is a proven solution.
    You are speaking of taking guns from everyone in order to get guns out of the hands of the 0.1%. As to "thought police", that would need a lot of explaining.
  • Mar 26, 2021, 08:42 AM
    Wondergirl
    You're awakened at 3 a.m. by noises and low voices in another part of the house. Burglars! It's pitch dark. Your locked gun safe is in the basement. (Or maybe it's in your bedroom....) You sleep naked. Now what?
  • Mar 26, 2021, 09:53 AM
    jlisenbe
    None of those senseless conditions apply to me other than the possibility of being awakened at 3 a.m. by burglars. Wifey and I have put a lot of thought into that and have a plan ready for action. My only hesitation is the thought of do I want to kill someone who is evidently not a Christian and completely unprepared for coming judgment. And that observation is entirely serious. They would have to push hard for me to pull the trigger.

    But let's do one better than that. You are awakened at 3 a.m. by a burglar and you have no means of protecting yourself. Before you can call the cops, they break in your bedroom and you are at their mercy. Now what? They rape your daughter and your are helpless to stop them. They put a round between your husband's eyes, beat the garbage out of everyone, and take what they want. And you are left thinking, "Why didn't we have some way of protecting ourselves?"
  • Mar 26, 2021, 10:49 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    None of those senseless conditions apply to me

    I don't care if they don't apply to you. I set the scene.
  • Mar 26, 2021, 11:47 AM
    jlisenbe
    Simple answer. Don't allow such a scene to take place. Putting a gun intended for self defense in the basement would just be stupid, and especially putting it in a gun safe in the basement. So for your scene you are basically asking, "If you did something dumb like this, what would you do?"
  • Mar 26, 2021, 11:59 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Simple answer. Don't allow such a scene to take place. Putting a gun intended for self defense in the basement would just be stupid, and especially putting it in a gun safe in the basement. So for your scene you are basically asking, "If you did something dumb like this, what would you do?"

    I added that the gun safe could be in your bedroom.

    Do you unlock the gun safe and then get dressed, or just forget the clothes 'cause they take too long to put on? And what about the total darkness? Maybe the burglars are using flashlights, so it will be easy to locate and shoot them. Or maybe those noises and low voices are coming from your wife and son who are trying not to awaken you. Or you can use your cell phone to call 911 and sort it all out when help arrives. (Meanwhile, get dressed.)
  • Mar 26, 2021, 12:03 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Fo you unlock the gun safe and then get dressed, or just forget the vlothes 'cause they take too long to put on? And what about the total darkness? Maybe the burglars are using flashlights, so it will be easy to locate and shoot them. Or maybe those noises and low voices are coming from your wife and son who are trying not to awaken you. Or you can use your cell phone to call 911 and sort it all out when help arrives. (Meanwhile, get dressed.)
    Well, you have a lot of "ifs". The best thing to do, as I have said, is have a plan in place beforehand to eliminate as many ifs as possible. In our case, for instance, we are upstairs at night. The stairs are the logical place to take a stand, so I yell out, "If you come up the stairs, I will shoot." That takes care of a family member sneaking in. We will all be aware of our plan. And having been told how to handle weapons, I would not fire until I was certain of my target and had issued multiple warnings.

    Now how about the scenario I presented to you, which is the one which liberal dems have inflicted, for instance, upon Chicago. What would you do? (Hint. I already know you will not answer lest your beliefs face examination.)
  • Mar 26, 2021, 12:11 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Now how about the scenario I presented to you, which is the one which liberal dems have inflicted, for instance, upon Chicago. What would you do? (Hint. I already know you will not answer lest your beliefs face examination.)

    What scenario? I'm a registered Republican, btw. And I'm from NC and western NY, have never lived in Chicago.
  • Mar 26, 2021, 12:15 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    (Hint. I already know you will not answer lest your beliefs face examination.)
    And I was right again! You are altogether too predictable.

    I'll repeat it, but I will not act like I believe your plea of, "What scenario?"

    But let's do one better than that. You are awakened at 3 a.m. by a burglar and you have no means of protecting yourself. Before you can call the cops, they break in your bedroom and you are at their mercy. Now what? They rape your daughter and your are helpless to stop them. They put a round between your husband's eyes, beat the garbage out of everyone, and take what they want. And you are left thinking, "Why didn't we have some way of protecting ourselves?"
  • Mar 26, 2021, 12:16 PM
    talaniman
    I find it both fascinating and amazing the second amendment all or nothing crowd thinks it okay to let anyone have a gun as easily as possible, but spend so much time making it harder for some to vote, which is to say the least inconsistent to me. Even more amazing how well you prepare for your worst fears with a gun under your pillow and have little empathy for those whose worsts fears are realized and suffer the desperation of very traumatic events all to common to many. Be it dragged from your home by xenophobic racists and lynched or murdered by cops making a tragic callous mistake, or some pissed off loony having a really bad day and shoots up a public place.

    I guess we all react to our own fears differently be they perceived or real, and desperation and terror drives us to some pretty ugly selfish and dangerous places, but no excuse for bad irrational behavior.

    Wish yall can feel me on that because over time it can be frustrating, unbearable and overwhelming, as well as terrifying.
  • Mar 26, 2021, 12:23 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    And I was right again! You are altogether too predictable.
    I'll repeat it, but I will not act like I believe your plea of, "What scenario?"

    You've tossed so many "scenarios" at me over the months, I've lost track of your challenges. Plus, I'm old and forgetful.
    Quote:

    But let's do one better than that. You are awakened at 3 a.m. by a burglar and you have no means of protecting yourself. Before you can call the cops, they break in your bedroom and you are at their mercy. Now what? They rape your daughter and your are helpless to stop them. They put a round between your husband's eyes, beat the garbage out of everyone, and take what they want. And you are left thinking, "Why didn't we have some way of protecting ourselves?"
    Oh, yes, I DO have a means of protecting myself. I'd tell them I'll make them a snack, maybe coffee and cookies, and write them a generous check to save them the trouble of searching for treasures (of which we have none in the house).

    Once I get to heaven, I will ask God to allow me to melt down all the metal in guns and other weapons of war and mayhem.
  • Mar 26, 2021, 02:17 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Oh, yes, I DO have a means of protecting myself. I'd tell them I'll make them a snack, maybe coffee and cookies, and write them a generous check to save them the trouble of searching for treasures (of which we have none in the house).
    I had hoped for a serious response, but I suppose any kind of response is a step forward. You plainly don't understand the kind of people you'd be dealing with who would break into a house at 3 in the morning, but good luck with your idea.
  • Mar 26, 2021, 02:20 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I had hoped for a serious response, but I suppose any kind of response is a step forward. You plainly don't understand the kind of people you'd be dealing with who would break into a house at 3 in the morning, but good luck with your idea.

    It is serious, and it works!
  • Mar 26, 2021, 02:21 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    It is serious, and it works!
    In your dreams. Go to the inner city of Chicago and ask those poor people how that would work for them. It's funny to you, but it's not to them.
  • Mar 26, 2021, 02:25 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    In your dreams.

    Try it!
  • Mar 26, 2021, 02:36 PM
    jlisenbe
    Nah. I'll let you be the one who gets the snot beaten out her. Should it happen, it won't be funny on that day. I sincerely hope it doesn't since you are altogether unprepared.

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