you sound like a Trump mouthpieceQuote:
Elections are far too important for this silly kind of experimentation.
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you sound like a Trump mouthpieceQuote:
Elections are far too important for this silly kind of experimentation.
That's it? You have nothing of any more significance to say than that? Well, OK then. If you ever have any real answers to really important questions, feel free to express them.
That's why this board has become tedious. Ask serious, important questions, and that's what you get. "Oh, you are actually asking thoughtful, significant questions that I have no answers for, so you must be a Trump mouthpiece!!" Good grief.
AGAIN, in many states all those questions and bugs have been answered and addressed and are no longer an experiment . I doubt they abandon all their efforts because other states have no clue and have never tried to move in that direction which is fine, just keep doing what you've been doing. This horse is already out of the barn in many places and the door is shut. Many more are moving in the same direction so no better time to accept the new ways than now because you could be left behind by your own choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
There is another component to this new adjustment and that's the virus, an aging volunteer force to man those in person polls, for fear of the virus and old polling machines nobody can fix, and those long lines repubs seem to love in dem urban areas. Yeah I would say plenty of reasons to find a better way and everybody loves the mailman, and resent he is being denied the chance to do the job they have always done which is worthy of praise in any weather.
Which states have been mailing out ballots to every registered voter for a general election and have had no problems? How did they make sure that the ballots were only received and sent back in by registered voters?
Your second paragraph does point out a genuine problem. A good answer might be to have polls open for two days rather than only one. Absentee ballots can be part of the answer. However, long lines are sometimes found in all kinds of communities. That's not a valid complaint.
I can only speak for Texas where early voting starts in October I believe, but you can check Colorado, Utah, Washington state and Oregon as well as Iowa for their policies and procedures that have been both efficient and secure as far as I know. There are many more.
Long lines are a valid complaint if you have to work, care for kids, old (Like my out of shape arse! 8D), or sick.
OK. So you don't know of a single place other than "as far as you know"? Sorry. That's not reassuring. No state has yet used mail out voting in a national, general election. Period. The five states you listed are going to do it this November assuming the courts allow it. I still don't know, and evidently neither does anyone on this board, the answers to the questions I have posed.
Early voting is not the same thing. That's been around for decades. We're talking about just mailing out a ballot to everyone on the voter roll and letting them mail them back in. Early voting is typically on the level of absentee voting. Different deal.
Here is one way it's being done. This sounds reasonable. They have your signature on file and validate signatures on each ballot. Ballots will not be forwarded to new addresses. Of course you still have to register and leave a signature on file. I'd like to know a little more about it, but it's at least a move in the right direction. More expensive to do, I would imagine.
https://www.kold.com/2020/07/07/fact...y-mail-ballot/
https://www.newsweek.com/these-are-s...e-mail-1505245
"Before the pandemic struck the U.S., only five states—Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah and Washington—conducted their elections using a vote-by-mail system. Though all states allow voters to vote by mail in certain circumstances, before the pandemic 16 required voters to provide reasons for those preferences before their applications were approved. Those restrictions have been significantly relaxed over the past couple of months, with many states actively working to expand options for at-home voting in an attempt to limit foot traffic at polling places."
AND https://www.newsweek.com/vote-mail-a...vid-19-1495373
Like I said in some states the horse has left the barn and the barn door is closed.
Same questions for those five states, and they are still unanswered. Only one county in Arizona has been shown to have what seems to be safeguards. You seem all too willing to let the horse out of the barn with no saddle, no bridle, no rider, and no idea if it's coming back or not. I have not been able to find how, or if, Colorado, for instance, insures that the ballots they receive came from registered voters. I did find out that you don't have to show proof of citizenship to register to vote. No surprise there.
Your data is faulty,
https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/hb19-1156
Quote:
BILL SUMMARY
In connection with current procedures permitting an elector to register to vote on or immediately prior to or on election day, the bill requires that the elector provide a form of identification that includes proof of citizenship.
Based on the link you provided, that is a bill that was proposed in 2019 and was postponed indefinitely in committee. Look under the "bill history" tab. It seems it was never even voted on. You are legally required to be a citizen to register, but you don't have to provide proof of citizenship. That is exactly what I stated above.
"Colorado does not require proof of citizenship for voter registration."
https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_in_Colorado
I suppose the thought has never occurred to you that uniformity in rules regarding voting may have some advantage, a little something about universal franchise and knowing the law no matter where you are, you are afterall, first and foremost, a citizen of the USA, that has been a fact since the Civil War and this issue of state rules is just an inconvienceQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Even if it didn't become a law, then the old law applies which is referred to the phrase "IN CONNECTION WITH..." MEANING THE OLD APPLICABLE LAW.
https://www.dmv.com/co/colorado/appl...or%20an%20SSN.
Quote:
Colorado DMV state ID requirements mandate that applicants prove their identities, including date of birth and state residency. Applicants must also supply valid Social Security Numbers or evidence of ineligibility for an SSN. Finally, they must prove that they are citizens of the United States, or are otherwise legally present in the country.
Come on, Tal. We can read here. DMV. Department of Motor Vehicles. That's talking about getting a driver's license type of ID, not voter registration. And even for that you don't have to prove citizenship. Your own quote showed that clearly. "...or are otherwise legally present in the country."
It's a simple truth. You don't have to provide proof of citizenship to register to vote in Colorado. That's why some group introduced the bill. They wanted to change the situation, and the Colorado legislature, run by democrats, wouldn't even vote on it. That is shown by the link you provided.
https://www.dmv.org/co-colorado/voter-registration.php
You cannot register to vote without an ID which requires among other things a proof of citizenship.
"In order to register to vote in Colorado, you must be:
- A United States citizen.
- A Colorado resident who has lived in the state for at least 22 days before the election in which you plan to vote.
- At least 18 years old by the date of the next election."
You are still in the DMV site. DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES!!! You don't have to have their DMV ID to register.
I really don't know how else to put it. The ballotopedia site I linked above says it pretty clearly.
"Verification of citizenship
See also: Laws permitting noncitizens to vote in the United States
Colorado does not require proof of citizenship for voter registration."
Even your own link above showed it clearly when speaking of the DMV ID card. "Finally, they must prove that they are citizens of the United States, or are otherwise legally present in the country."
I am not suggesting that Colorado is allowing illegals to vote by the hundreds of thousands, but it would certainly seem to be pretty logical to require proof of citizenship to register to vote. It is important.
Federal law says that only citizens can vote in a national election, even though states allow some non-citizens to vote in some local elections.
Federal law also says illegals cannot be employed. How's that working out? Saying you must be a citizen to vote is one thing. Ensuring that only citizens can register is a different story. Wouldn't requiring a SS card and photo ID to register be fairly logical?
Ballots haven't even been printed yet. I called our county board of election commissioners yesterday to find out how this is being handled. I was told ballots in Illinois will be mailed out on or slightly before October 24th only to registered voters who have properly filled out and returned an application. When ballots are mailed in to the county, they will be checked and doublechecked for duplication. I asked if my application has been received yet. He verified my name, rank, and serial number (i.e., my personal information on file), and yes, I am on the mailing list to receive a ballot. ONE ballot.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
My signature is on file and I had to sign the application for a ballot. I will be sent ONE ballot.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Don't ask me why there are 50 different ways of doing things surrounding state and local functions or why not everyone has the same logic or levels of enforcement. Frankly I have a hard enough time dealing with my own state government and meeting requirements they demand to function lawfully.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
don't you think this might be a diversion started by Trump along with his many other diversions
No doubt at all he is just throwing crap in the game like he always does.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
A Trump diversion? Yeah. That's bound to be it. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with legit concerns about a secure and reliable election.
What makes you think Trump could have any concerns about that, his only concern is what advantages him, which of course are the same concerns the demonrats haveQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I guess we could start with the questions I asked on this board that no one had answers to.
why? if we didn't answer then then we arn't going to answer them now, you missed a whole week of discussion, we covered all of that earlier and don't want to endlessly review the issues.
Just face it, there are holes in the electoral process, this is because you think you live in a democracy but you don't
That won't work. I read the discussions I missed. No answers. Try again.Quote:
you missed a whole week of discussion, we covered all of that earlier and don't want to endlessly review the issues.
We think we live in a democracy but we don't? Hmm. Definition of democracy. "a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives." Sure sounds a lot like us.
I always give you my honest opinion, it is disingenuous of you to suggest otherwise. As Tom has taken great pains to point out often, you live in a constitutional republic which is not a democracyQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I was referring to your contention that the questions I posed had been answered earlier in the thread and you simply didn't want to repeat them. Sorry. I just rather doubt that. I read the posts that preceded mine and didn't notice anything that even approached being an answer to my questions. Perhaps I missed them. Feel free to post them if I did. I will be happy to admit my error.
As to democracy, we are not a pure democracy. Neither is, to my understanding, anyone else. All democracies operate around a fixed set of "rules". Ours is our Constitution, but all advanced nations have something similar. Otherwise we would be starting over every year, and no one does that. Now being a republic does change things somewhat, but that does not negate the fact that our country is operated by democratically elected representatives and a democratically elected executive.
We have 50 states empowered to run their affairs and govern as they see fit within the framework of the federal law under that constitution, so why be surprised that there are different answers to your questions? Whether you accept them or not is up to you.
I'm not surprised that a red stater such as yourself criticizes blue state controlled policy, governance and language, and questions the logic, so be it as I do the same, but I've never lived in anything but conservative red states even if it's the blue neighborhood. 8D!
https://www.findlaw.com/voting/my-vo...d-states-.html
Seems voting is an ever evolving process, imperfect and complicated as well as tedious. States make their own rules. That's the simple answer.
That is no answer at all. It's simply stating the obvious.Quote:
States make their own rules. That's the simple answer.
Told you, no answers here
The obvious IS the answer! Accept it or NOT!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
The obvious? You mean that we still don't know the answers to the questions? OK. I accept that.
They don't and they are content with that reality . The emperor and the Quid went out of their way to oppose even the normal purging of the rolls to eliminate the dead and those who have moved out of the district . They called it suppression to even propose that .Quote:
When I go vote, I have to show photo ID before I get a ballot. With this new version of mail in voting, how will they know that the people filling in the ballots are registered voters?
There is no verification with mail in ballots . Here in bluer than blue NY we have to sign in at the polls . There are poll watchers who compare out signatures to pervious signatures on record .Quote:
How will they be sure I didn't get three ballots mailed to me by mistake and I sent all three back in? And if they don't know, then how can they be sure that the result is valid?
Nothing like that happens with mail in ballots . They just start counting them. States that allow harvesting are open to even more possibilities of fraud . I heard reports here in NY during the primaries ,that some people tossed the ballots mailed to them thinking they were sample ballots that are sometimes mailed out . AND as I've mentioned already ; it appears to be the norm that around 20% of the mail in ballots were tossed because of various challenges to them during the count . It took 3 weeks to count a couple of the Democrat primary votes ;and the number of ballots disqualified were more than the difference in the contests .
But we know already that is the game plan by the Dems . They don't want the election resolved on November 3 . They want it unresolved on Jan 20 .
The method used in the county in Arizona might be effective, but to have to check signatures for every ballot mailed in would be, I would think, expensive, and if your ballot gets disapproved, I guess you'd never know your vote didn't count.
In Illinois there is! As I said in an earlier post in this thread, I received by mail and filled out an APPLICATION for a ballot WITH MY SIGNATURE that is on file and sent it to my county's election commissioner's office. I called a week or so later to make sure they had received my app (which they had) AFTER they verified who I am. Illinois is sending out appplications, NOT ballots. If verifiable apps have been received, the REGISTERED voter will receive a ballot if all his/her information/signature lines up. I also asked about mail-in and in-person vote counting, but you wouldn't believe anything I posted, so I won't fill your head with details.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Check the Arizona voting site. It doesn't sound like it works that way. Registration comes first. No ballots are sent out willy-nilly.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
https://followmyvote.com/voter-resou...ng-in-arizona/
Are we forgetting that winning the popular vote doesn't mean you win the election?
WG, it sounds like that amounts to absentee ballots. It's not what we've been discussing. Our topic has been the latest plan to just mail ballots out to everyone on the voter list, requested or not. Not the same thing.
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