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Originally Posted by tomder55

I already told you Cuomo came out with a directive MARCH 25 ORDERING that elderly C-19 positive patients be sent to nursing homes . The deaths there are on his bloody hands .

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Please tell the whole story, Tom.

From https://nypost.com/2020/04/23/nursin...ts-cuomo-says/ :
Cuomo [also] said that if a nursing home can’t properly quarantine and treat COVID-19 patients with separate staffers, it’s required to move them to another facility or ask the state Department of Health to arrange a transfer.

“Now, when a person gets transferred, they lose a patient, they lose that revenue, I understand, but the relationship is, the contract is, ‘You have this resident, you get paid, you must provide adequate care,’ ” he said.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Please tell the whole story, Tom.

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Tom is famous for leaving out pertinent facts in his diatribes.

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“This treacherous virus spreads through nursing homes like fire through dry grass and the state’s March 25 policy served to unnecessarily to fan the flames of this fire.”

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Right on !

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“The state has failed to protect the lives of the most vulnerable members of our community,” said Ron Kim, a Democratic member of the state Assembly whose Queens district has seen many nursing-home deaths. “The fact we maintained and pushed Covid-positive patients into facilities that were not equipped to handle them, it was a fatal error.”

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Cuomo knows he f~ed up . That is why he reversed the decision May 10 .

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Hospitals cannot release patients to nursing homes in New York unless the patient tests negative for the virus, Cuomo said Sunday.

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https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...sting/2410533/

Even with that he tried to deflect the blame to the courageous nursing home staffs .He now requires them to take tests twice weekly as if they were somehow the cause of the outbreak in the nursing homes .

He's as a$$hole . NY city had the Javits Center rigged with hospital beds ;he had USNS Comfort docked in NY and did not use it's resources . He had hotel rooms set up with hospital beds and did not use them .Instead he DIRECTED that C-19 positive patients be sent back to nursing homes to comingle with the most vulnerable population in the state . Then the pompus jackass said when he was informed that staff at these facilities did not have enough PPE ,he scoffed and said it wasn't the states problem . The truth is that the moron cried and bellyached for weeks that NY did not have enough PPE ;enough respirators ,enough beds and begged for Trump to pull his feet out of the fire .Now he whines and complains that he needs Congress to bail out his failed state that he left in the hole for $9 billion BEFORE the virus .

BTW ,his goal is clear here. He hates private run care . He wants all the elderly warehoused in government facilities . Well I got to see one of those institutions up close and personal before that one shut down and the families of the residents were forced to scramble to find one of those private facilities Cuomo so despises . It was a dilapidated building .The stink was overwhelming .

Shame on Cuomo and you if you support the heartless policy directive of March 25. All it took was almost 2 months of needless deaths for the meatball head to change course .

soundslike you have more problems over there with nursing homes than we do

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Originally Posted by tomder55

He's as a$$hole . NY city had the Javits Center rigged with hospital beds ;he had USNS Comfort docked in NY and did not use it's resources . He had hotel rooms set up with hospital beds and did not use them .Instead he DIRECTED that C-19 positive patients be sent back to nursing homes to comingle with the most vulnerable population in the state . Then the pompus jackass said when he was informed that staff at these facilities did not have enough PPE ,he scoffed and said it wasn't the states problem . The truth is that the moron cried and bellyached for weeks that NY did not have enough PPE ;enough respirators ,enough beds and begged for Trump to pull his feet out of the fire .Now he whines and complains that he needs Congress to bail out his failed state that he left in the hole for $9 billion BEFORE the virus .

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Now if Trump wudda taken the novel coronavirus seriously and had stockpiled the needed medical supplies (after he took apart Obama's preparation efforts), Cuomo's plan would have worked very well. The private as well as public nursing homes would have been able to provide adequate care.

Don't like Cuomo, move to Texas. You'll love Abbot and his beanie buddies, Cornyn and Cruz.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Even with that he tried to deflect the blame to the courageous nursing home staffs .He now requires them to take tests twice weekly as if they were somehow the cause of the outbreak in the nursing homes .

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I don't think that was deflecting blame. It was to protect all as far as possible.

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NY city had the Javits Center rigged with hospital beds ;he had USNS Comfort docked in NY and did not use it's resources . He had hotel rooms set up with hospital beds and did not use them .Instead he DIRECTED that C-19 positive patients be sent back to nursing homes to comingle with the most vulnerable population in the state

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He did not DIRECT C-19 patients to commingle with others in the nursing home. The intent was to free up hospital beds for sicker patients who were overwhelming the hospitals. The hospital ship was never intended to house C-19 patients nor was the Javits Center. They were not equipped to do so. However, I agree something could have been done in the emergency as it presented itself with the nursing home patients.

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Then the pompus jackass said when he was informed that staff at these facilities did not have enough PPE ,he scoffed and said it wasn't the states problem.

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This was part of the larger disagreement between the feds and Cuomo. You make it sound like Cuomo did it heartlessly.

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The truth is that the moron cried and bellyached for weeks that NY did not have enough PPE ;enough respirators ,enough beds and begged for Trump to pull his feet out of the fire

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Absolutely true! And still is. Trump has repeatedly refused to take effective charge of a national response to C-19.

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Now he whines and complains that he needs Congress to bail out his failed state that he left in the hole for $9 billion BEFORE the virus

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Come on, Tom, you should know that the virus has drained the state coffers and soon the first responders (cops and firemen, etc.) won't be getting paid without help from the feds.

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BTW ,his goal is clear here. He hates private run care . He wants all the elderly warehoused in government facilities . Well I got to see one of those institutions up close and personal before that one shut down and the families of the residents were forced to scramble to find one of those private facilities Cuomo so despises . It was a dilapidated building .The stink was overwhelming.

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Most of that industry is badly in need of improvement. Both the profiteers and the government-run. They both have the same essential problem - poverty wages and workers who accept those wages do not come with PhDs.

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Shame on Cuomo and you if you support the heartless policy directive of March 25. All it took was almost 2 months of needless deaths for the meatball head to change course .

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Nobody supports heartless policies. In hindsight, that policy that was intended to free up hospitals so new, sicker patients could be treated was not the best - especially when considering the Javits Center and the Hospital ship.

Cuomo did what he thought was best at the time. He reversed himself because the uproar made the policy self-defeating. I firmly believe the major screw-up in this whole business has been the Chinese followed by Donald Trump who has repeatedly denied taking a leadership position - telling the states to do it themselves.

Time to put partisan politics aside and help the country get back on its feet. Wherever I go, that is the common attitude - the only exception is Donald Trump on his daily TV shows. His head is on re-election, not recovery.

The dufus is back to his chosen profession of selling snake oil!

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Now if Trump wudda taken the novel coronavirus seriously and had stockpiled the needed medical supplies (after he took apart Obama's preparation efforts), Cuomo's plan would have worked very well. The private as well as public nursing homes would have been able to provide adequate care.

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But he has taken chloroquine seriously and has trialled it himself, now what else can a President do than that, take the risks himself the man is a hero in the superman mold

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Now if Trump wudda taken the novel coronavirus seriously and had stockpiled the needed medical supplies

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What meds are you referring to?

You mean medical SUPPLIES as quoted? Ventilators, masks, and gloves.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

But he has taken chloroquine seriously and has trialled it himself, now what else can a President do than that, take the risks himself the man is a hero in the superman mold

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He has no cape but does the red tie count?

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The dufus is back to his chosen profession of selling snake oil!

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https://aapsonline.org/hcq-90-percent-chance/

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Now if Trump wudda taken the novel coronavirus seriously and had stockpiled the needed medical supplies


What meds are you referring to?

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Must be talking about those treatments and vaccines that haven't been invented or approved of yet . I know the testing he inherited from the emperor's CDC was terribly flawed . Besides that I can't hazard a guess. The fact that Covid 19 is a new strain presupposes that stockpiling of any medicine would've been at best a crap shoot .

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You mean medical SUPPLIES as quoted? Ventilators, masks, and gloves.

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The emperor depleted PPE during the H1N1 pandemic and never restocked .

His use is illegal since he has never been hospitalized or tested positive for the virus. He's likely lying anyway.

"Unfortunately, although it is perfectly legal to prescribe drugs for new indications not on the label, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has recommended that CQ and HCQ should be used for COVID-19 only in hospitalized patients in the setting of a clinical study if available. Most states are making it difficult for physicians to prescribe or pharmacists to dispense these medications."

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But he has taken chloroquine seriously and has trialled it himself, now what else can a President do than that, take the risks himself the man is a hero in the superman mold

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Hundreds of C-19 patients have been treated successfully with the drug cocktail ....and health providers have been using it as prophylactic prevention . Quinine comes from Cinchona officinalis . As I previously mentioned . I self medicated during my illness withCinchona officinalis extract ,zinc ,and vitamin C and D . I did not take the drug and it was not prescribed to me . But I took that combination based on what I had learned about how successful Quinine had shown to be. Don't believe those rigged tests like they criminally pulled at the VA . They administered it to vets on their death bed and surprise !! It did not help . The drug to be successful has to be used early after diagnosis and the patient should not have a heart precondition .

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Must be talking about those treatments and vaccines that haven't been invented or approved of yet .

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I was wondering the same thing. Since no one had any idea in December that we would be facing this, then how could anyone have prepared a stockpile of the needed meds? For that matter, why didn't Obama assemble the meds if it's just that easy.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Must be talking about those treatments and vaccines that haven't been invented or approved of yet . I know the testing he inherited from the emperor's CDC was terribly flawed . Besides that I can't hazard a guess. The fact that Covid 19 is a new strain presupposes that stockpiling of any medicine would've been at best a crap shoot .

The emperor depleted PPE during the H1N1 pandemic and never restocked .

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Budgetary cuts from that era show many cuts across the board. The dufus had 13 million masks but that just wasn't enough so "depleted" is not accurate Tom, and the dufus claim of a bare cupboard is FALSE.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Hundreds of C-19 patients have been treated successfully with the drug cocktail ....and health providers have been using it as prophylactic prevention . Quinine comes from Cinchona officinalis . As I previously mentioned . I self medicated during my illness withCinchona officinalis extract ,zinc ,and vitamin C and D . I did not take the drug and it was not prescribed to me . But I took that combination based on what I had learned about how successful Quinine had shown to be. Don't believe those rigged tests like they criminally pulled at the VA . They administered it to vets on their death bed and surprise !! It did not help . The drug to be successful has to be used early after diagnosis and the patient should not have a heart precondition .

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Doesn't change the law, nor the fact that nobody can clearly state HQC is as effect with or without other drugs. When those countries mentioned in your link run clinical trials showing those results as said, then we talk.

In the meantime this could happen here.

Hypochondriac Trump isn't taking hydroxychloroquine! No way would he risk suffering from any of these possible side effects:
From
https://www.drugs.com/sfx/hydroxychl...e-effects.html

• Blistering, peeling, loosening of the skin
• blurred vision or other vision changes
• chest discomfort, pain, or tightness
• cough or hoarseness
• dark urine
• decreased urination
• defective color vision
• diarrhea
• difficulty breathing
• difficulty seeing at night
• dizziness or fainting
• fast, pounding, uneven heartbeat
• feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
• feeling that others can hear your thoughts
• feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
• fever with or without chills
• general feeling of tiredness or weakness
• headache
• inability to move the eyes
• increased blinking or spasms of the eyelid
• joint or muscle pain
• large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, and sex organs
• loss of hearing
• lower back or side pain
• noisy breathing
• painful or difficult urination
• red irritated eyes
• red skin lesions, often with a purple center
• severe mood or mental changes
• sore throat sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
• sticking out of the tongue
• stomach pain
• swelling of the feet or lower legs
• swollen or painful glands
• trouble with breathing, speaking, or swallowing
• uncontrolled twisting movements of the neck, trunk, arms, or legs
• unusual behavior
• unusual bleeding or bruising
• unusual facial expressions
• unusual tiredness or weakness
• yellow eyes or skin

I have a funny feeling that if Joe B said he was taking it, it would be unquestioningly accepted and believed. Of course that's assuming that he could take it and remember the next day that he was taking it. 8D

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I have a funny feeling that if Joe B said he was taking it, it would be unquestioningly accepted and believed. Of course that's assuming that he could take it and remember the next day that he was taking it. 8D

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That's all we would need is a dem dufus running against a repub dufus! Did I take my morning meds? 8( Remind me not to run for president, or a bus for that matter!

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I have a funny feeling that if Joe B said he was taking it, it would be unquestioningly accepted and believed. Of course that's assuming that he could take it and remember the next day that he was taking it. 8D

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Nope. Joe actually has a brain.

I just watched yesterday's Trump video again. Frequent subject changes, word salad, multiple repetitions of phrases and sentences (like a child trying to convince a parent that he really, really isn't lying), eyes blinking or eyes closed as he repeats himself over and over again ad nauseum in an attempt to convince his listeners that yes! he is telling the truth (another juvenile tactic).

My goodness. "Joe actually has a brain." "...eyes blinking or eyes closed as he repeats himself over and over again ad nauseum in an attempt to convince his listeners that yes! he is telling the truth (another juvenile tactic)."

Why are you being so judgmental? Didn't you just say, "I got very weary of the putdowns and shaming," a few days ago? Well, that sentence above sure looks like a major league putdown to me. Why is it that put-downs are bad when directed at you, but OK when you direct them towards others? And no, that is not meant to be ugly. Just an honest question.

I do think that when you start trying to put JB's mental faculties out there as a strong point for him, then you are really stretching.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

My goodness. "Joe actually has a brain." "...eyes blinking or eyes closed as he repeats himself over and over again ad nauseum in an attempt to convince his listeners that yes! he is telling the truth (another juvenile tactic)."

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No, that was Trump you were watching!
https://www.businessinsider.com/full...roquine-2020-5

Not judgmental! Watch Trump! If it were Obama or Biden or HC, you'd be all over it, screaming obscenities.

Well I knew that. I still don't know why it is OK for you to put-down the pres, but not OK for someone to direct a put-down towards you. And btw, it is not my intention to be insulting to you or to make any remark seem like a put-down. Hopefully it is OK to ask serious questions.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Well I knew that. I still don't know why it is OK for you to put-down the pres, but not OK for someone to direct a put-down towards you. And btw, it is not my intention to be insulting to you or to make any remark seem like a put-down. Hopefully it is OK to ask serious questions.

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The boards are full of your putdowns and insults and shaming.

When Trump is so obviously ill, we should do what?

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When Trump is so obviously ill, we should do what?

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Address put-downs towards him, and shame him? Look, you can do as you please. I just don't see the consistency of your position. You position seems to be, "Don't put me down and don't shame me, but it's OK if I do it towards others". It's perplexing.

I don't think questioning a statement, a position, an argument, and so forth amounts to a put-down. Now I think that when Tal repeatedly accused me of having my head up another person's backside, then that's a pretty insulting put-down, and yet you had nothing to say about that. That's also perplexing to me. Why is that?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Address put-downs towards him, and shame him? Look, you can do as you please. I just don't see the consistency of your position. You position seems to be, "Don't put me down and don't shame me, but it's OK if I do it towards others". It's perplexing.

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Trump earns every putdown he gets. When he starts acting intelligent and kind and loving, the putdowns will stop.

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I don't think questioning a statement, a position, an argument, and so forth amounts to a put-down. Now I think that when Tal repeatedly accused me of having my head up another person's backside, then that's a pretty insulting put-down, and yet you had nothing to say about that. That's also perplexing to me. Why is that?

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Should I put together a list of your putdowns to us?

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Should I put together a list of your putdowns to us?

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So put-downs towards you three are bad, but from you are OK? I mean really, now. It just seems to me that everytime I ask a question that seems a little dangerous to you, that looks like it might cause you to have to side outside of the threesome, then you just simply don't answer it. But if you can find a comment of mine that even comes close to suggesting that someone has his head up someone else's "arse", then I'd love to see it. It's just sad that you cannot bring yourself to even agree that it was completely vulgar and tasteless. Oh well.

And there are no put-downs or shaming anywhere in that paragraph. It's just simple discussion.

I will repost the letter from the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons :
https://aapsonline.org/hcq-90-percent-chance/
https://aapsonline.org/aaps-letter-a...e-in-covid-19/

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The antiviral properties of these drugs have been studied since 2003. Particularly when combined with zinc, they hinder viral entry into cells and inhibit replication. They may also prevent overreaction by the immune system, which causes the cytokine storm responsible for much of the damage in severe cases, explains AAPS. HCQ is often very helpful in treating autoimmune diseases such as lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.Additional benefits shown in some studies, AAPS states, is to decrease the number of days when a patient is contagious, reduce the need for ventilators, and shorten the time to clinical recovery.

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Vaccines and results of randomized double-blind controlled trials of new drugs are at best months away. But patients are dying now, while affordable, long-used drugs would be available except for government restrictions, AAPS states.

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From a peer reviewed study

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...uzVZlnIKmjh0wQ

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The HCQ-AZ combination, when started immediately after diagnosis, appears to be a safe and efficient treatment for COVID-19, with a mortality rate of 0.5%, in elderly patients. It avoids worsening and clears virus persistence and contagious infectivity in most cases.

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Historical controls are used in many previous studies in medicine. In this respect, the safety of Hydroxychloroquine is well documented. When the safe use of this drug is projected against its apparent effect of decreasing the progression of early cases to ventilator use, it is difficult to understand the reluctance of the authorities in charge of U.S. pandemic management to recommend its use in early COVID-19 cases. The effects of the chloroquines were first outlined 15 years ago by the CDC’s own Special Pathogens Unit.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

"The HCQ-AZ combination, when started immediately after diagnosis, appears to be a safe and efficient treatment for COVID-19"

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Thus, you're saying Trump has been diagnosed with COVID-19?

From your link which I have posted before.

https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/diseases-conditions/2019-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov

Treatment

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There is no specific treatment at this time. Supportive care is given to help relieve symptoms. People with severe illness will be treated in the hospital. Some people are being given experimental medicines.
Check with your health care provider before treating yourself or a loved one with vitamins, nutrients, or any medicines prescribed in the past for other health problems.

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Its important to understand the treatment of the symptoms as opposed to a cure.

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Thus, you're saying Trump has been diagnosed with COVID-19?

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no I've already said more than once that health professionals are using it as prophylactics

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From your link which I have posted before.

https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/diseases-conditions/2019-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov

Treatment

There is no specific treatment at this time. Supportive care is given to help relieve symptoms. People with severe illness will be treated in the hospital. Some people are being given experimental medicines.
Check with your health care provider before treating yourself or a loved one with vitamins, nutrients, or any medicines prescribed in the past for other health problems.

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I made my own health care decisions . Doctors here were only telling us if you think it is serious enough to go the the hospital emergency room Most doctors stay away from alternative treatment and that is my 1st choice . Did the links I gave not ask Governor Ducey to rescind his order to forbid hydroxychloroqine use as prophilatic ? These are the professionals ,the scientists . I thought you guys wanted us to listen to the scientists and professionals .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

no I've already said more than once that health professionals are using it as prophylactics

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From
https://nypost.com/2020/04/02/hydrox...reatment-poll/

“Outside the US, hydroxychloroquine has equally used for diagnosed patients with mild to severe symptoms whereas in the US it has been most commonly used for high risk diagnosed patients,” the survey found.

From
https://krdo.com/health/2020/05/19/t...effectiveness/

The FDA has warned against the use of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat the novel coronavirus and said they should only be used in hospitals or clinical trials because they can kill or cause serious side effects. These include serious heart rhythm problems in Covid-19 patients treated with the drugs, especially when they are combined with the antibiotic azithromycin or other medications that can affect the heart.

From
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiep...quine-n2566409
Dr. Anthony Cardillo said he has seen very promising results when prescribing hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc for the most severely-ill COVID-19 patients.

"We have to be cautious and mindful that we don't prescribe it for patients who have COVID who are well," Cardillo said. "It should be reserved for people who are really sick, in the hospital or at home very sick, who need that medication.

From your second article.

The President’s physician, Navy Cmdr. Sean Conley, alluded in a memo released Monday night to Trump’s personal valet testing positive two weeks ago for coronavirus. While Conley didn’t say directly that Trump started taking hydroxychloroquine in response to the valet testing positive, the timing mentioned by Trump and the positive test match up.“After numerous discussions, he and I had regarding the evidence for and against the use of hydroxychloroquine, we concluded the potential benefit from treatment outweighed the relative risks,” Conley wrote, adding that Trump has taken multiple tests for coronavirus — all negative — and remains symptom free.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

From your second article.

The President’s physician, Navy Cmdr. Sean Conley, alluded in a memo released Monday night to Trump’s personal valet testing positive two weeks ago for coronavirus. While Conley didn’t say directly that Trump started taking hydroxychloroquine in response to the valet testing positive, the timing mentioned by Trump and the positive test match up.“After numerous discussions, he and I had regarding the evidence for and against the use of hydroxychloroquine, we concluded the potential benefit from treatment outweighed the relative risks,” Conley wrote, adding that Trump has taken multiple tests for coronavirus — all negative — and remains symptom free.

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I betcha $100 Trump is being given glucosamine or Tylenol or some other innocuous pill that looks like hydroxychloroquine. No physician in his right mind would prescribe a pill that has so many nasty side effects for a sitting president who is "in excellent health."

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"We have to be cautious and mindful that we don't prescribe it for patients who have COVID who are well," Cardillo said.

"It should be reserved for people who are really sick

, in the hospital or at home very sick, who need that medication.

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I know that health care professionals who treat C-19 patients are taking it on their own because they are confident in it's effective use as a preventive . The drug is cheap and available . So now are we going from it is ineffective and dangerous to we have to ration it to the patients who really need it ? There is a disconnect here .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I know that health care professionals who treat C-19 patients are taking it on their own because they are confident in it's effective use as a preventive . The drug is cheap and available . So now are we going from it is ineffective and dangerous to we have to ration it to the patients who really need it ? There is a disconnect here .

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Your source that says healthcare professionals are taking hydroxychloroquine? You know them personally?

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. No physician in his right mind would prescribe a pill that has so many nasty side effects for a sitting president who is "in excellent health."

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You really overstate the danger from side effects . As you know any tv add of a drug spends more time on disclaimers of adverse effects than the add itself. From what I am told the danger of the side effects are primarily for long term usage like those who take it for lupus . If aspirin was a new drug it would be prescription and the side effect listing would almost be as long.

https://www.drugs.com/sfx/aspirin-side-effects.html

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Originally Posted by tomder55

You really overstate the danger from side effects . As you know any tv add of a drug spends more time on disclaimers of adverse effects than the add itself. From what I am told the danger of the side effects are primarily for long term usage like those who take it for lupus . If aspirin was a new drug it would be prescription and the side effect listing would almost be as long.

https://www.drugs.com/sfx/aspirin-side-effects.html

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WG: Your source that says healthcare professionals are taking hydroxychloroquine? You know them personally?
In other words, you don't know.

Please take it for a month and let us know how it's working for you. I don't need it and wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole!