No, high crimes and misdemeanors, whatever that means, and it can be a political process if the will exists, I am aware of that, and no doubt Trump is guilty of being stupidQuote:
Originally Posted by Athos
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No, high crimes and misdemeanors, whatever that means, and it can be a political process if the will exists, I am aware of that, and no doubt Trump is guilty of being stupidQuote:
Originally Posted by Athos
One thing that's most frustrating about you wingers is your LACK of doing your homework. There is so much stuff out there documenting everything that's gone on with that episode I just don't understand how you could get it wrong. You see all these crooks go to jail, get kicked out of office, get fired, quit, and still you make stuff up. The dufus gets banned and fined over his charity work, and HC gets an "A" rating and grows her charity. Whose the bad guy? The Clintons.
I can forgive the wingers for not reading the Mueller Report, but not the congress specifically repubs. They read it of course but bought the party line that defends the dufus. Frankly that's just too much to ignore as Roger the Dodger Stone is finding out. Yup add his name to the list of grifters in the dufus orbit.
No Clete, the dufus is guilty of a lot more than just stupidity. That's not the real issue. Will he get away with it is the issue.
Tal, can you tell us any one specific piece of evidence that proves Trump's guilt?
You could start with what the Mueller Report actually says as opposed to the cover up the dufus and Barr actually are spinning. Then you would know you're being lied to, given the bipartasan conclusion reached by the Senate about Russian cyber attacks, based on the Intell community hearings before the senate.
That leads to a question of why the dufus wants Ukraine to find a server he thinks they have clearing Russia of such actions they have been accused of. Start there and do your own due dilligence, before you dismiss obvious facts. Tell me where is his evidence that his version of events is even credible, given the FACTS that this was debated, investigated and DEBUNKED.
I suppose that it's a given that the internet gives even right wing loonies a voice, but the option is to vet stuff for yourself in a search for FACTS. That's what this whole exercise against the dufus is all about, finding the FACTS and presenting them to the public and seeing if indeed charges should be filed against him, given to the senate, and they will decide what's to be done about it.
Frankly I'm excited to see what's done about the 13 testimonies gotten so far that not only corroborates the WBers story, but reveals the extent of the dufus's involvement in advancing his own self interest.
LOL, after all the hollering about HC's emails, this administration has finally absolved her of wrongdoing. It was a smear campaign to help repubs win the WH! (My conclusion)!
Tal - as usual your two excellent summaries above are must reading for the loonies because they are based on FACTS, something the Republicans have long discarded.
There was a FACT in there? Facts and unsubstantiated allegations are not the same.
If the dems want to win the White House, they better come up with something better than Biden, Sanders, or Warren. Warren wants a Med for all program with no idea of how to come up with the extra two or three tril a year to pay for it. Sanders is a socialist better suited for Venezuela. Biden can't remember where he is half the time. Good luck with those three.
Thanks Athos, I have come to the conclusion that repubs KNOW their constutents can't, or don't read so they can fill them with all kinds of nonsense. I know for FACT the dufus figured that out years ago and knew he could lies his A$$ off about anything and no one that voted for him would care and half don't KNOW!
Those sheeple just wanted a shepherd even if it is a wolf in disguise. The repubs have defected to the Dufus Circus out of FEAR of the Thumpers!
Kind of like Obama did with you concerning Benghazi?Quote:
I know for FACT the dufus figured that out years ago and knew he could lies his A$$ off about anything and no one that voted for him would care and half don't KNOW!
I'm not surprised that's your rebuttal, since it seems that's all you got. You never were interested in FACTS, or EVIDENCE just in getting your agenda across and manipulating an outcome for yourself. Don't you realize your zeal diminishes the credibility of the holier than thou stance you seek to take? Sure the right wing noise machine and Fox News have covered the Clintons with mud and she still rises above it all while you elevate a lying cheating dufus to the top.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Don't ever question facts and evidence while you blow that right wing smoke up your own nose. Now we know why you really held your nose and voted for the biggest crook to ever be elected to anything in history.
Quote:
Trump delivered evangelicals from the shame of losing, and they will back him again in 2020 to avoid losing again. So perhaps we should take evangelicals at their word that they will support Trump come hell or high water, rather than twisting ourselves into knots trying to figure out why.
Nope, not like that at all. If you can't see the difference, there's little hope for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
//Later edit - typed before seeing Tal's response. His was better//
You really want me to believe that you are not out to "manipulating an outcome for yourself"?Quote:
You never were interested in FACTS, or EVIDENCE just in getting your agenda across and manipulating an outcome for yourself.
They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. You never heard that "holier than thou" expression until I used it about you about a dozen times. So allow me to say, "Thank you for the flattery."Quote:
Don't you realize your zeal diminishes the credibility of the holier than thou stance you seek to take?
Like voting for HC was some sort of an act of holiness? No wonder I had to hold my nose. The smell is getting pretty bad with ideas like that.Quote:
Don't ever question facts and evidence while you blow that right wing smoke up your own nose. Now we know why you really held your nose and voted for the biggest crook to ever be elected to anything in history.
We'll find out when the hearings become public. I look forward to it. Either way, let justice be done.
He is getting away with stupidity every day Tal, that is evident and anything else he has done is because of his stupidity, that is the root cause. So yes, it is the real issue since if he behaved otherwise there would be no evidenceQuote:
No Clete, the dufus is guilty of a lot more than just stupidity. That's not the real issue. Will he get away with it is the issue.
Trump is stupid? With the current economy, we must need a lot more of that stupid.Quote:
He is getting away with stupidity every day Tal, that is evident and anything else he has done is because of his stupidity, that is the root cause. So yes, it is the real issue since if he behaved otherwise there would be no evidence
It wasn't his business acumen to take over an already good economy that was healthy and growing, but he did as repubs always do when the dems are god stewards of the finances, they take the cream for themselves and their buddies and leave everybody else with a few crumbs. It's been a pattern for decades.
Sure he gets to brag to the red meat crowd and keep them fat and all riled up, but the rest just wait for election day. If he makes it that far. So go ahead and quote those scripture and try to tell me a God who don't like ugly won't take this dude to the hell he deserves one day. That is where the you say the criminals, liars, adulterers, and thieves go don't they?
Trump's economy is an extension of what began during Obama's administration.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
His tariff policy is a disaster waiting to happen, already causing business failures and bankruptcies.
Trump promised to eliminate the national debt during his term. With his tax cuts for the wealthy, the debt has skyrocketed by about 2 trillion dollars. And of his promised benefits from the tax cut, NONE have occurred.
The economy is best fairly called the Obama-Trump economy.
Although, in my opinion, Obama faced an enormously more difficult economy than Trump did. Obama's actions were instrumental in warding off what could have been another Great Depression. Trump, in my opinion, has done very little to help the economy, and plenty to harm it.
Facts are fine: FACT: Media gets caught in bias.....is that not ALSO a FACT? And, its not just FOX, either: You remember the REPUTABLE DAN RATHER and his slander of George W. Bush, right? Just one example that comes to mind...just an outright lie....there are many others.
My contention: MEDIA has long since forgotten journalism...and it doesn't matter if its Right or left: FACT IS there should be NO RIGHT OR LEFT IN REPORTING: JUST FACTS! I don't tune-in to hear your opinion or your bias, just THE FACTS!
Suggesting that Trump is responsible for the economic cycle shows as much understanding of economics as Trump has, which is little. I think Trump's trade war is harming not only the US economy. Beggar my trading partner is never good strategyQuote:
Originally Posted by Athos
You have to admit that todays journalists would be hard pressed to find some good facts about THIS president (Though righties have little problem defending him from relentless leftie attacks) who does wierd wacky stuff and lies an awful lot. Should those things NOT be reported? Then we have an almost a daily dose of those tweets, and personal attacks. Are these not news?
Then Vac, there is the ultimate correction for those biased news shows you hate...your remote! Use it as liberally as necessary. Remember also this is silly season, elections and candidates dominate the news and you should expect wild and wacky stuff and mudslinging BS everywhere. Nature of the beast. Popcorn and Netflix is a viable solution, grand kids if you got 'em another.
One thing though you have to accept especially a year before an election is there are politicians running for office, and we already have a dirt digging dufus who is also running to keep his job, and he does have opposition, so it's bound to get rather nasty as we get closer to JUDGEMENT Day.
Pretty good observation, Vac.Quote:
My contention: MEDIA has long since forgotten journalism...and it doesn't matter if its Right or left: FACT IS there should be NO RIGHT OR LEFT IN REPORTING: JUST FACTS! I don't tune-in to hear your opinion or your bias, just THE FACTS!
Truth is, if Trump was Hillary, the liberals on this board would all be singing her praises for this amazing, record-setting economy we now have. I'm not a Trump fan, but to say he has not done well with the economy just reveals your biases. Some of you would argue the point if wages increased by 20% and unemployment was at 1%. You'd still find something to complain about.
Now if you want to complain, you can bring up the budget deficits. I'll join you on that one. Of course that has been a legitimate complaint for ten years or more.
BTW, it's Monday again. Hope everyone has a good week. It's good to be alive.
I doubt that HC could take all the credit for this economy either, but we both agree whomever took office would have something to work with besides a global financial crisis. I have no doubt that even Obama could have survived if the recovery were much less than what it was while he was in the WH. That's one of the things a good economy papers over rather well the underlying social issues we had moved to the background and were distracted by the lack of money. The Tea Party got a shot of steroids so we got the dufus fueled by years of hate HC. That dynamic has been building since repubs regained the house and senate and just awaited a repub in the WH. McCain and Romney just didn't have that oomp repubs needed to unseat Obama, but they sure took his power in the congress, and if the dufus survives he may well have the same thing happen to him. If he does indeed survive with his senate sycophant's scared to buck him no matter what he does.
Ever wonder how his racists chants have energized the right since he announced he was running? Well they have energized the left also and from the protests the day of his inauguration to the mid terms to now it should be a great turn out and that doesn't bode well for repubs or the dufus if he does squeak by AGAIN.
Does anyone think that the era of 24/7 NEWS COVERAGE is suffocating us? I know, Talaniman: We have a channel changer! But we have to be a bit crazy to indulge in EVERY little bit of gossip that comes over the air waves: Its like eating until you burst! My brother once said: "if you look into a bucket of jelly beans and you only want the black ones, then you will only see the black jelly beans....you become blind to the rest"......I think we become tone deaf to portions of NEWS that don't fit our DESIRED NARRATIVE. We end up "cherry-picking" the news.....not a healthy thing to do.
Also: Sensationalism SELLS! How many times have we heard about "BOMBSHELL" news that turned out to be mere firecracker duds? This, too, is disingenuous.
That's another good point. News channels are businesses out to make a profit. That can create problems.Quote:
Also: Sensationalism SELLS! How many times have we heard about "BOMBSHELL" news that turned out to be mere firecracker duds? This, too, is disingenuous.
Now that's something we can all agree on.
Hooray!!Quote:
Now that's something we can all agree on.
Here, here! An agreement: Bickering, insulting, and offending, as we go but we are AMERICANS!
My Daddy would be 95 years old if he was alive today/96 come January, and a Vet: I hope all of you remembered to thank a veteran today! We owe them so much.....and despite everything, all of our differences, WE HAVE SO MUCH TO BE THANKFUL FOR!
Here Here, another agreement.
Yes indeed.Quote:
Here Here, another agreement.
This is interesting coming from you V7. You yourself have promoted the craziness in one of your posts here (below). The gossip you engaged in was an outright untruth. Biden was telling the Ukrainians to investigate Burisma, not his son. The son part was later claimed by Trump supporters to smear his political opponent, Joe Biden.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacuum7
Nobody but you "saw and heard it".Quote:
I (V7) did see a video of Joe Biden bragging about getting the Ukrainians to end their investigation of his son Hunter....that we did hear and see.
Athos: There is a YouTube video of Biden bragging about stopping the investigation of his son.
There is a video showing Biden bragging about getting the prosecutor fired. The reason for the firing is less clear.
jlisenbe: From REALCLEARPOLITICS (you know, the same one with quick-Silver who predicted Hillary defeating Trump): There is a video of Biden bragging at the CFR Meeting about withholding aid to the Ukraine to force the firing of the top Ukrainian State Prosecutor, Viktor Shokin…..The same Viktor Shokin who was leading an investigation into the affairs of a natural gas firm that had hired Hunter Biden...…..Now, in all honesty, why did Biden single out this particular prosecutor? The answer is obvious.
Then provide a link to this so-called video. If not, admit you are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacuum7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXAxzddS4o
This is part of a BBC report. Start at about the one minute mark. They are critical of Biden and Trump both. It has the video of Biden saying he got the prosecutor fired. He also adds he was withholding funding until Ukraine did what he wanted.
ARE YOU SERIOUS? This video clearly states that "there is NO evidence that Biden stated the prosecutor was investigating his son". NONE! Nada!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
In fact, it is stated TWICE! What's wrong with you two? Can't you hear? See?
It's one thing to believe something. It's quite another to offer proof of something that absolutely proves the OPPOSITE! This is typical right-wing BS, offering false statements as true.
Let me know when you find that video and it contradicts the one I provided. Meanwhile let's get some facts about this obvious dufus conspiracy theory. I think I may have provided you similar links before so get the dufus LIES out of your head my friends.
Quote:
But though Biden may have taken credit for it, this was hardly his unique idea. “Everyone in the Western community wanted Shokin sacked,” Anders Aslund, a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, told the Wall Street Journal. “The whole G-7, the IMF, the EBRD, everybody was united that Shokin must go, and the spokesman for this was Joe Biden.”The people of Ukraine wanted Shokin gone as well, and demonstrated for his removal around the time of Biden’s threat. Shortly after that demonstration, Shokin was dismissed.Trump hopes to distract from the whistleblower by pushing a conspiracy theory
If only I could teach you how to read. Your life would be so much better. Vac and I both made reference to a video about Biden boasting about getting the Ukrainian prosecutor fired. You asked where the video was. I gave it to you. It plainly shows what I referenced and the reporter said the same thing. I never said there was any evidence that his son was involved. So calm down. You asked for the video and you now have it. You're going to have a heart attack one of these days by letting your imagination get so carried away with you. Now if you want to put a quote up where I made a false statement, then go for it. I'm not aware I made one.Quote:
ARE YOU SERIOUS? This video clearly states that "there is NO evidence that Biden stated the prosecutor was investigating his son". NONE! Nada!
In fact, it is stated TWICE! What's wrong with you two? Can't you hear? See?
It's one thing to believe something. It's quite another to offer proof of something that absolutely proves the OPPOSITE! This is typical right-wing BS, offering false statements as true.
In fact I'll help you out. Here's my statement. "There is a video showing Biden bragging about getting the prosecutor fired. The reason for the firing is less clear." There is nothing false there. Now maybe it's your turn to admit to a falsehood? There was a time when I thought the connection with his son was very clear. I would now say a person might imply it, but I don't know of any hard evidence to make that connection.
"There is a Youtube video of Biden bragging about stopping the investigation of his son". Word for word from V7.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
It is OBVIOUSLY NOT the video V7 was referring to! You imply it is.
WRONG! I clearly asked for the video showing Biden bragging about stopping the investigation of his son. You sent a video that had nothing to do with the issue - even time marked. This bit of mis-direction is par for the course for you.Quote:
You asked for the video and you now have it.
That was NOT the issue between V7 and me. How dense can you be?Quote:
In fact I'll help you out. Here's my statement. "There is a video showing Biden bragging about getting the prosecutor fired. The reason for the firing is less clear."
Why didn't you say that in the first place?Quote:
There was a time when I thought the connection with his son was very clear. I would now say a person might imply it, but I don't know of any hard evidence to make that connection.
That reply of mine was not to you. It was to Vac. And this is the post immediately before you asked for the video where Vac says, "There is a video of Biden bragging at the CFR Meeting about withholding aid to the Ukraine to force the firing of the top Ukrainian State Prosecutor, Viktor Shokin…"Quote:
That was NOT the issue between V7 and me. How dense can you be?
That's the video you were given.
You neglected to include, "Now, in all honesty, why did Biden single out this particular prosecutor? The answer is obvious"Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
That sort of alters the meaning, n'est pas?
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