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JL, after all that you should realize by now that your tank is empty of facts but I do respect your feelings, right or wrong!

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That is really disappointing. I have challenged you before to point out any assertion I make that is incorrect. You are unable to do it. Words like your quote above are cheap. If you want to challenge my information then do it, but please avoid such empty platitudes as you posted above. It is very much beneath you. It does not surprise me coming from some others on this board, but I hope not to see it from you.

You're not even half as dissapointed as I am my friend. I'm saddened by the weakness of your arguments lately in the face of growing evidence that the dufus must go.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Still waiting on you to answer my question about Jesus's reference to an eternal, fiery hell in Matthew 25.

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In time, jl, in time.

I've been busy with other matters - more important matters. But your question is rising to the top of the pile. Be patient.

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I'm saddened by the weakness of your arguments lately in the face of growing evidence that the dufus must go.

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I will say it again and continue to say it until it sinks in. If you find any assertion of mine to be incorrect then correct it. You don't do that because you can't. You just keep making things up and making general statements such as, "the weakness of your arguments." Well, that's pathetic. You get ready to show me specifically where I'm wrong, then we can continue.

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/...f&x=2307&y=706

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/...60&u=t&o=f&l=f

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Originally Posted by Athos

In time, jl, in time.

I've been busy with other matters - more important matters. But your question is rising to the top of the pile. Be patient.

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Just so you are not waiting too long, by the way it takes one minute to look it up yourself

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⁴¹ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. ⁴² For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, ⁴³ I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Just so you are not waiting too long, by the way it takes one minute to look it up yourself

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Read the question. Then take foot out of mouth.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Just so you are not waiting too long, by the way it takes one minute to look it up yourself

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Does your scripture mean you and JL are going to hell because of your treatment of the least? Or it doesn't apply to migrants?

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Does your scripture mean you and JL are going to hell because of your treatment of the least? Or it doesn't apply to migrants?

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It does not refer to what the liberal crowd is able to force other people to do by force of law, and then go about crowing loudly about their "holier than thou" status. It refers to what you do personally. So you get very little credit for voting for corrupt pols who get their charitable itch scratched with other people's money, but a lot of credit for what you do with your own money and time.

Oh so it lets you off the hook for supporting pols that lie, cheat, and steal, and bully others. That's a neat deal.

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Oh so it lets you off the hook for supporting pols that lie, cheat, and steal, and bully others. That's a neat deal.

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If you dems ever run a candidate that does not do the above, then you can ask those kind of questions from a different perspective. You supported two people who are just perfectly happy with nearly a million abortions a year, but you want to whine and complain? That blood is on your hands.

And to be clear, it is the grace of God in Christ that "lets me off the hook". I have no confidence at all in the power of my good works to make me acceptable to Him. That is God's work, not mine.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

It refers to what you do personally. So you get very little credit for voting for corrupt pols who get their charitable itch scratched with other people's money, but a lot of credit for what you do with your own money and time.

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It seems to me money is your focus, not the Beatitudes. They're secondary.

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It seems to me money is your focus, not the Beatitudes. They're secondary.

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Yes, it would seem that way to you. But you're wasting time that you could be using to answer the question.

Seems to me you are the whiner and complainer of other Christians who don't follow your own notion of Christianity, with very specific litnus tests.

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Seems to me you are the whiner and complainer of other Christians who don't follow your own notion of Christianity, with very specific litnus tests.

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My notion of Christianity matters little. I do try and make reference to the Bible, and,yes, the Bible does have some litmus tests. But I will not let you get by with this nonsense of trying to claim some moral high ground because you love to make other people support the poor.

I can't make anyone do anything you obviously have me mistaken. I've never tried to. Show me where I have.

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I can't make anyone do anything you obviously have me mistaken. I've never tried to. Show me where I have.

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Oh please. You've done it ever since I've seen your posts on this board. You complain about the treatment of people on the southern border and insist on the taxpayers having to spend more. You go on and on about the need to further tax the wealthy (who already pay 85% of income taxes) in order to support the welfare state. The one thing you don't seem to do is talk about what Tal ought to do to help the poor, or for what each one of us should do individually for that matter.

My volunteer work is personal, and if you had read MORE of my posts here you would know I am an active advocate of volunteering and it's probably the one area I have never blasted you for, and that should have told you something. All those positions you so disagree with that you site are just me advocating for the least of us, as a collective, but the laws and policies were here before you and I were, and having a social safety net for those in need is not a control thing as you say, but a recognition that there is much need.

Just as there are laws, policy and processes, to protect whistle blowers from retribution from the dastardly misdeeds of those with power who misuse and abuse that power, there are laws that advocate for helping the least o us. I don't see that as a bad thing, but if you do, then elect those that will stop welfare in your state. I have said this before my friend, but you don't seem to remember.

So the impeachment inquiry continues. You should be creeped out about the treatment on the southern border too, but like anything the dufus does you NEVER seek his repentance or acknowledge his cruelty, you justify it.

Talaniman: You reference the Southern border: Those people have to know that it is illegal to try to break into the U.S., they must know that......I sympathize with their situations back in their homelands but there are LEGAL means to pursue these matters.....and we are a nation of laws. I just don't see how we can just let every person into the U.S. who wants to come in come. And believe me: It has nothing to do with race.....I could care less.....it has everything to do with looking forward and thinking about how we can sustain population growth and if the populations is fully assimilated: I don't want the U.S. to become another FRANCE with NO-GO ZONES and a large population that has been allowed to proselytize themselves with NO INTENTION OF EVER ASSIMILATING TO THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE.

The dufus has strayed from the path of a humane process and moved markedly to the cruelest way possible on the southern border and the court has said his emergency money grab for wall money was unconstitutional, but the kicker is seeking asylum is legal under the law. No where does seperating families and caging kids become neccessary, but was done as a deterent.

My gosh man, can we not have a HUMANE process in accordance of our laws without the evil antics? If that's asking to much then the guy in charge ain't worth a crap! Look around the world and through history and there is always an exodus from unsafe conditions and I really don't know what you mean by assimilation, or will never assimilate when the opposite is probably true.

Working hard and living in peace is enough assimilation for me, but how about you?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

The dufus has strayed from the path of a humane process and moved markedly to the cruelest way possible on the southern border and the court has said his emergency money grab for wall money was unconstitutional, but the kicker is seeking asylum is legal under the law. No where does seperating families and caging kids become neccessary, but was done as a deterent.

My gosh man, can we not have a HUMANE process in accordance of our laws without the evil antics? If that's asking to much then the guy in charge ain't worth a crap! Look around the world and through history and there is always an exodus from unsafe conditions and I really don't know what you mean by assimilation, or will never assimilate when the opposite is probably true.

Working hard and living in peace is enough assimilation for me, but how about you?

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Tal the humane process is to help to develop these countries so the people stay at home, you sent your manufacturing to China when you could have sent it to central and south america, so what have you reaped, a powerful enemy and more refugees than you can handle. Very poor thinking there, I wonder whose policies they were

Talaniman: Assimilation to me is adopting the English language and using it in your daily life (you can use whatever you wish at home, that's not what I am talking about), learning about the history of these United States......holding no other than the U.S. as their home...its about eternalizing the United States.....you are free to keep you cultures, your religion, whatever but the expectation that you will come to the U.S. and IMPOSE your culture, your religion, your "whatever" upon U.S. citizens, and that U.S. citizens should accept all of your demands is just not acceptable, at all: Immigrants should remember: You need us.....we don't need you.....you are here only because we chose to let you into this nation......It is this concept that has been lost.....and its not too much to ask.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Talaniman: Assimilation to me is adopting the English language and using it in your daily life (you can use whatever you wish at home, that's not what I am talking about), learning about the history of these United States......holding no other than the U.S. as their home...its about eternalizing the United States.....you are free to keep you cultures, your religion, whatever but the expectation that you will come to the U.S. and IMPOSE your culture, your religion, your "whatever" upon U.S. citizens, and that U.S. citizens should accept all of your demands is just not acceptable, at all:

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And you can speak your native language in public here. No problem.

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Immigrants should remember: You need us.....we don't need you.....you are here only because we chose to let you into this nation......It is this concept that has been lost.....and its not too much to ask.

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Who's gonna harvest your crops? pick the fruit in the orchards? roof your houses after building them? We WELCOME them. And they work for peanuts.

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Who's gonna harvest your crops? pick the fruit in the orchards? roof your houses after building them? We WELCOME them. And they work for peanuts.

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And all this time we thought you had a virtuous heart and wanted to help those poor people. "They work for peanuts." Sounds like you're more of a capitalist than we thought!! (For the comically impaired, that is said less than seriously.)

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

And all this time we thought you had a virtuous heart and wanted to help those poor people. "They work for peanuts." Sounds like you're more of a capitalist than we thought!! (For the comically impaired, that is said less than seriously.)

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I didn't say what I would pay them. I certainly wouldn't stiff them like tRump does. In fact, an immigrant from Mexico City drives me to my hematology appointments. I chat amiably with him and tip him generously. Soon our house roof will be a tear-off and reroofed. I may adopt the Mexican workers.

I shudda said, "And they are WILLING to work for peanuts."

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And you can speak your native language in public here. No problem.

Who's gonna harvest your crops? pick the fruit in the orchards? roof your houses after building them? We WELCOME them. And they work for peanuts.

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I have a response to this post; get a life!

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Talaniman: Assimilation to me is adopting the English language and using it in your daily life (you can use whatever you wish at home, that's not what I am talking about), learning about the history of these United States......holding no other than the U.S. as their home...its about eternalizing the United States.....you are free to keep you cultures, your religion, whatever but the expectation that you will come to the U.S. and IMPOSE your culture, your religion, your "whatever" upon U.S. citizens, and that U.S. citizens should accept all of your demands is just not acceptable, at all: Immigrants should remember: You need us.....we don't need you.....you are here only because we chose to let you into this nation......It is this concept that has been lost.....and its not too much to ask.

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I don't see where they are not doing all you say and more, but I find it hilarious when one who came from immigrants makes those demands on other immigrants. What is this big demand of which you speak they make on us. Haven't you noticed that all immigrants assimilate quite well by the 2nd and third generations? They seem to be doing what we have all done and that's make a productive life.

What are you even talking about when you say they IMPOSE themselves on Americans? I don't get it Vac, though I have heard that sentiment before.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Tal the humane process is to help to develop these countries so the people stay at home, you sent your manufacturing to China when you could have sent it to central and south america, so what have you reaped, a powerful enemy and more refugees than you can handle. Very poor thinking there, I wonder whose policies they were

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Nothing was sent Clete, Big Biz runs to China and other countries not just for cheap labor but tax breaks and to harvest the vast consumer markets. China and the rest of the world want their cut and just refuse to roll over and let rich Americans make them subservient to them. Lets be clear though there is a big reason Central and South America are not attractive for big biz though and that's the instability of the drug trade and the weak and often corrupt central governments. We are talking a massive investment is needed to just put the infrastructure together to build these economies and the same dynamic is present in many parts of the world. The biggest democracy so far has trouble getting the lights on and feeding it's own people so what do you expect from places that have none of that going, and are constantly running from one threat or another?

The world is a mess and humane processes are just to burdensome on scared people who want walls for protection. Let's face it, it's easier to just lock your doors and ignore the far away chaos I found it amusing in your other post you would rather have Vlad patrol a foreign border than your people.

Talaniman: When I said "IMPOSE", I am referring to the creation of ethnic ghettos that are turned into "NO-GO ZONES" like those in France, Sweden, and other Europeans....once this happens in a country, the division of the country into "groups" is all but guaranteed UNLESS the native majority's fears are used by a leader with bad intend and that leader is able to use these fears to target the minority as the source of all the ills of the country.....Like what happened in Indonesia in 1964 when the head of the country targeted the Chinese minority.

I sort of thought that's what you meant with your references to Europe but I didn't want to assume. I think we here already have such a leader who freely and prolifically targets those refugees and demonizes their existance. It works for him to scare those citizens and rally his racist low informed base around him. No repub dares say anything against him in public. So i guess we already have our own versions of nativist fears, and prejudices being stoked to powerful effect.

Being in a constant state of fear is just no good for any country though, as it normalizes the irrational, and stifles any hope of collective cooperation for the whole of our society, and can we pay such a price to feed our fears instead of our better nature? Reject fear by dumping the dufus is a simple course of action, but I know...easier said than done as some just don't want to feed that better nature. A reality I acknowledge even as I hate it.

The struggle continues. It's always been a struggle I suppose.

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I didn't say what I would pay them. I certainly wouldn't stiff them like tRump does. In fact, an immigrant from Mexico City drives me to my hematology appointments. I chat amiably with him and tip him generously. Soon our house roof will be a tear-off and reroofed. I may adopt the Mexican workers.

I shudda said, "And they are WILLING to work for peanuts."

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OK. First of all, I was joking with you. Second, it is so strange how you so feel the need to boost yourself up and yet tear Trump down. Can you three liberal amigos have any sort of conversation without bashing Trump and then claiming to occupy the moral high ground? You didn't bother to mention the vigorous economy we have now that improves the lives of everyone including immigrants.

You voted for HC and thus supported one of the biggest proponents of abortion around. That precludes your occupation of the moral high ground.

I support choice, and that means education. At least I recognize the reality of flawed humans making choices with feelings and not facts. You would deny them that education and access to resources among the least of us because those who have resources and education really ignore you and laugh at your attempts at control.

Education brings better choices my friend and empowers rather than subjugates. You seem to need someone to lord over and the least of us fits your bill.

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I support choice, and that means education. At least I recognize the reality of flawed humans making choices with feelings and not facts. You would deny them that education and access to resources among the least of us because those who have resources and education really ignore you and laugh at your attempts at control.

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You support killing unborn children. I support protecting them. It's just that simple. Don't try and sugarcoat it.

If simplifying things helps you then no worries. It's your delusion not mine.

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If simplifying things helps you then no worries. It's your delusion not mine.

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Might be a delusion to you, but it's not to the hundreds of thousands of unborn children killed every year for which you have no feeling whatsoever. Just amazing. And yes, it is a very simple proposition just like slavery and the Holocaust were simply terrible. So you blast the Trump administration for, in your view, mistreating children on the border, and yet give yourself a free pass for supporting what amounts to murder.

I don't support abortion, nor do I condemn those that make that choice for themselves. So I have no need for your free pass, nor your delusion, and it is your delusion for sure. Yeah I blast the dufus for his cruelty, which is intentional, even if you do not. Now you tell me that JL protects kids after their born I would be impressed, since that's when they need it the most. Mom and baby. Dad's TOO!

Does your protection of the unborn include prenatal care?

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I don't support abortion, nor do I condemn those that make that choice for themselves.

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OK. I've changed my original post. I think it was too harsh. Let me try this approach. When you say you don't support abortion but refuse to not allow others to practice abortion, how is that any different from saying, "I don't support enslavement of Africans, but I wouldn't condemn those who make the choice to do so," or "I don't support child abuse, but I don't condemn those who make the choice to practice it." Aren't you basically saying, "I don't support the killing of unborn children, but as a good liberal, I will not oppose those who practice it?" And if not, then how is your position different?

I'll leave the paragraph on the bottom, but it's the one above that I'm really interested in. Can you explain to me how your position makes sense?

As to supporting children already born and here, I spent 34 years doing that very thing in education, and that included many children of immigrants, so I absolutely deny your critique. My wife and I have helped support young moms who need help. Guess who staffs, runs, and funds practically all Crisis Pregnancy Centers? If you said liberal democrats, you are completely wrong. Do you support one?

As for right now, if you want to propose something for you and me to do beyond voting for democrats who are in love with abortion, I'm all ears.

But I will emphasize again. I greatly appreciate your willingness to be honest about your positions. You tend not to be evasive, and I really like that. I guess it all comes down to this. We just do not agree.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

OK. I've changed my original post. I think it was too harsh. Let me try this approach. When you say you don't support abortion but refuse to not allow others to practice abortion, how is that any different from saying, "I don't support enslavement of Africans, but I wouldn't condemn those who make the choice to do so," or "I don't support child abuse, but I don't condemn those who make the choice to practice it." Aren't you basically saying, "I don't support the killing of unborn children, but as a good liberal, I will not oppose those who practice it?" And if not, then how is your position different?

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There is a HUGE difference between abortion and slavery, and child abuse. I just do not see them the same way at all. That's just over simplifying entirely separate issues. Abortion is personal, and a CHOICE, slavery is cultural and without a choice, and abuse is a contagious sickness. Few things are black and white, and there is much in between. I was very clear with my words on abortion and '

I don't support abortion, nor do I condemn those that make that choice for themselves.' was my position. For one it's not my body, nor can I get pregnant. For another as I have stated it's not so much an issue with educated women with means. No one knows how they conduct their own family planning, and it is a private personal decision that a poor uneducated woman does not have. I've said it all before JL, more than once and I have little reason to change that position. Are you also against the morning after pill?

It's totally separate from slavery of another human, practiced in the world longer than it's been abolished, and nuanced from economic and social slavery, and abuse is in my mind a learned complex mental condition and the science of it says abusers are likely victims of abuse is the simple explanation. All are part of the human condition, but different parts, and my positions may not make sense to you, but make perfect sense to me. That's as best as I can explain it. Not saying I'm completely right, but the way I understand and deal with it, because I have no control over anyone. Nor do I want it.

Just like it makes perfect sense to blast the dufus for his words and antics because he lies cheats and steals for his own enrichment and that's his choice.

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As to supporting children already born and here, I spent 34 years doing that very thing in education, and that included many children of immigrants, so I absolutely deny your critique. My wife and I have helped support young moms who need help. Guess who staffs, runs, and funds practically all Crisis Pregnancy Centers? If you said liberal democrats, you are completely wrong. Do you support one?

As for right now, if you want to propose something for you and me to do beyond voting for democrats who are in love with abortion, I'm all ears.

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Good for you, but does that mean you don't participate in those hollering mobs outside of PP clinics. Just asking and for the record I have never asked if clinic workers, doctors, or nurses were conservative or liberals just that they render aid and expertise. when needed. I've worked with many church programs and never cared about the religion, or who funded what for a lot of causes. I have many.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

But I will emphasize again. I greatly appreciate your willingness to be honest about your positions. You tend not to be evasive, and I really like that. I guess it all comes down to this. We just do not agree.

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AGREED, but we can agree to disagree. It's not that big of a deal to me. We're more alike than different no matter how polarized our different positions may be.

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There is a HUGE difference between abortion and slavery, and child abuse. I just do not see them the same way at all. That's just over simplifying entirely separate issues. Abortion is personal, and a CHOICE, slavery is cultural and without a choice, and abuse is a contagious sickness.

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The baby killed in abortion has no choice. Why do you ignore it's inability to choose? How does a person in slavery exercise less choice than the baby killed in abortion?

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I was very clear with my words on abortion and I don't support abortion, nor do I condemn those that make that choice for themselves.' was my position

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Why do you not support abortion?