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Not biased at all, it's just the effect of big city dems surrounded by god and gun conservatives that ruins things. Everybody knows where to get a gun cheap for bad intentions....legally and illegally. I figure if you guys stop selling guns to criminals and loonies, we may not have all those murders in big cities.
Always someone else's fault.Quote:
Not biased at all, it's just the effect of big city dems surrounded by god and gun conservatives that ruins things.
Tal -- I figure if you guys stop selling guns to criminals and loonies, we may not have all those murders in big cities. Not biased at all, it's just the effect of big city dems surrounded by god and gun conservatives that ruins things.
Tal, sounds like a great idea! Let's give it a try. Six months should give us a rough estimate of success.Quote:
JL -- Always someone else's fault.
Uhm...you do realize that selling a gun to a convicted criminal is already a crime? As to loonies, how do you propose to unseal their confidential medical records??Quote:
Tal, sounds like a great idea! Let's give it a try. Six months should give us a rough estimate of success.
Might add, what do you propose to do about the guns already in Chicago despite your strict gun laws???
Huh? That's not the plan. Please reread.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Wasn't that the plan? Stop selling guns to criminals and loonies? Wasn't that what I referred to?Quote:
I figure if you guys stop selling guns to criminals and loonies
What's your plan? Probably NADA! Just like the dufus and his god and gun supporters. See ya at the next massacre!
I don't have a plan as such. I don't feel too badly about that since you don't either. I'm not convinced the usual truckload of new laws will help. I think a national return to respect for life would be a good start. I think us asking ourselves how it is that boys used to have guns in their pickup trucks at school and yet no one even thought about shooting up the place would be another good step. What has changed over the last fifty years? How is it that a person used to be able to buy a gun out of the Sears catalog and yet didn't go to work or a movie theater and kill people with it? When we get some answers to those questions, we'll be on the way to solving our national problem.Quote:
What's your plan? Probably NADA! Just like the dufus and his god and gun supporters. See ya at the next massacre!
I still favor open carry of firearms for every law abiding citizen. Random loonies or petty thieves are far less likely to shoot up a place when they know their intended victims can shoot back. 45 states currently allow open carry, with 30 requiring no permit and with 15 requiring a permit. The 5 hold-outs are NY, IL, SC, FL, and CA. Proposed legislation has been filed with the SC legislature to allow it here and the odds look good that it will pass this legislative session.
https://opencarry.org/maps/map-open-...oaded-handgun/
Athos said "I read something almost word for word from the Wall Street Journal. Shouldn't you cite that publication? Still not sure about the rules here about that."
IMHO every quote should be enclosed in quotation marks and the source should be cited and if it isn't a requirement then it should be.
Obviously those days are gone and I doubt they come back. I had a plan, stop selling guns...without a rigorous background check of both buyer and seller, no hold barred. That means however long it takes, and whatever info is needed to insure the public safety. I frankly don't give a damn about rights and traditions either in light of all the carnage and death, and I doubt you would care much if YOU and YOURS were victims. That could happen so think of a good idea because those loonies and psycho paths are evil, and no plan is not an option.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Back in the days of the wild west, bad guys waited in ambush to get the drop on their victims, and that's what we have now.
There are more guns than citizens and not all of them want you and your gun in there establishment. Homicidal maniacs aren't that dumb to target well guarded venues, and as I said they pick sitting ducks and soft targets, and there are a lot of those. Guess we just stay home and hope the pizza guy is not a loon. With 45 states and more coming for open carry, doesn't seem to stop the carnage, and heaven forbid some armed innocent reacting to gunfire, get caught up in mistaken identity when the cops show up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Specter1
How do you tell the good guys from the bad in such a case? An idea, but hardly perfect.
That's not the "plan" you posted earlier which was to stop selling guns to criminals and "loonies". I'm fairly sure you already cannot buy a gun if you are a convicted felon. As to the mentally unstable, you will have to go around the wall of medical confidentiality and I don't know an answer to that one. I think you have some good points, but we still need to figure out why we have had such drastic social changes in the past fifty years. How have we gotten to this place?Quote:
I had a plan, stop selling guns...without a rigorous background check of both buyer and seller, no hold barred. That means however long it takes, and whatever info is needed to insure the public safety.
Exactly! And how many innocent bystanders will the "good guy" shoot while trying to hit the bad guy?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Maybe it's something in the water, food, or air I don't know, but I do know that my plan starts with figuring out who the good guys are and who the bad guys are and who the sick guys are before you sell them a gun. Hey you want a gun, give up them doctor reports by signing a waiver, taking a test, get checked whatever it takes.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
A complete thorough background check. I have other ideas, probably wont be that popular with some, since trust of the government and cops ain't that high and you know Americans, they think they know best, but part of protecting the citizen may involve knowing who has what, not to confiscate, but verify your a good guy and not on some good prescription dope, or even the non prescription stuff. Employers and the military have such screening, so should everyone who wants a gun.
When you figure out the why of it let me know, and if you have ideas and solutions I'm open to that too. Good luck getting the bad guys to obey the law, they ain't, and better luck making them go to church and read the bible and behave themselves.
I would agree that something needs to be done to prevent mentally ill persons from having access to guns.Quote:
my plan starts with figuring out who the good guys are and who the bad guys are and who the sick guys are before you sell them a gun. Hey you want a gun, give up them doctor reports by signing a waiver, taking a test, get checked whatever it takes.
You make a lot of good points. I'll give you my two cents for what it's worth. Actions have consequences. When we removed prayer and the Ten Commandments from schools, it sent a message to the next generation. "We don't need God to run this place." That message has been gathering steam ever since then. We think we can make up our own moral values without any input from "above". Well, people listen to these messages, so when a mentally unbalanced person, or an angry young person, or whoever decides to take a particular course of action, the anchor that used to hold them back is no longer there. The result is predictable, and having rejected any objective moral standard, they would ask us, "Who are you to tell me that what I did was wrong?" And if we are going to be honest, this God-rejecting country would have to admit that we no longer have a transcendent moral standard to appeal to. And then you throw in the 73 abortion decision which told us that life is so cheap that the most innocent and defenseless among us can be brutally killed on any whim or pretense, then we grow ever closer to "every man for himself."Quote:
When you figure out the why of it let me know, and if you have ideas and solutions I'm open to that too. Good luck getting the bad guys to obey the law, they ain't, and better luck making them go to church and read the bible and behave themselves.
Actions do have consequences and you cannot escape the fact that this country as a whole has not lived up to its own moral values defined as all men being equal, let alone embrace the humanity of their fellow citizens. You want school prayer, then you should be at a religious school. Public school should not embrace any one religion over another or one tradition over another. That's a choice a parent makes, without a group making it for them. Just my 2 cents on that subject.
I think you miss the fact it only takes one loony radicalized in extreme ideology based in hate and mayhem to create havoc and fear in the life MANY others. No amount of school prayer will change that, so the problem as I see it is in that small band that embraces the evil of hate. I doesn't take much to feed the bad wolf when he already is looking to do bad stuff. The trick is I think denying that small band the means to carry out that mayhem and identifying them before they do. I simply say we start when they look for the tools to reek havoc, and nip that bud.
99% of folks are not so prone to be homicidal maniacs, bot you cannot ignore that 1% that is either, or the sheeple that flock to them. Hey all I got is applying the same standard the army does before they give a recruit a gun.
PS
I don't think the country has rejected God, just become very selective in who and how they follow that God.
I don't know that I would call for prayer in school, but you can't escape the impact it must have made when we told schoolchildren that we would no longer be praying. A person can choose his own opinion, but he cannot choose his consequences. One of life's brutal truths.Quote:
Actions do have consequences and you cannot escape the fact that this country as a whole has not lived up to its own moral values defined as all men being equal, let alone embrace the humanity of their fellow citizens. You want school prayer, then you should be at a religious school. Public school should not embrace any one religion over another or one tradition over another. That's a choice a parent makes, without a group making it for them. Just my 2 cents on that subject.
How do you explain the events of the past fifty years as regards our ever increasing willingness to shoot the place up?
As far as all men being equal, I don't agree with you on that. I think we have largely achieved an equality before law. Not perfectly, and that will never happen, but close enough so that any person who wants to make it can do so. If you don't believe that, then you have to explain Ben Carson, Barack Obama, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Oprah Winfrey, Jackie Robinson, Michael Jordan, Denzell Washington, and a list that goes on and on.
What does it take to be an ostrich?Quote:
I don't think the country has rejected God, just become very selective in who and how they follow that God.
That's the problem. God does not ask us how we wish to follow Him. He sets the standards, and we can either accept or reject them.Quote:
just become very selective in who and how they follow that God.
No that's YOUR problem, THE problem is the homicidal maniacs preying on the innocent.
OK. I'd still like to know why you think that has become so wide spread now versus fifty years ago. What changed???Quote:
THE problem is the homicidal maniacs preying on the innocent.
No student is forbidden from praying in school. All that student has to do is close his eyes and say a prayer in his thoughts to his god. His religious instruction is up to his parents and his pastor/priest/rabbi/imam/holy man.
As for preventing the mentally ill from buying guns, that term "mentally ill" is very misleading. Consider that wonderful guy who has life all figured out, is on his way to success and happiness, but then his girlfriend, influenced by ?, dumps him in a most shameful way. He is boiling over with anger and sinking into depression. He grabs his AR-15 and and goes looking for her to teach her and her family or friends a thing or two.
How many of the 2019 shooters and mass murderers were mentally ill with a history of psychiatric help or in-patient care?
Widespread? I don't know, happening way to often for anyones sense of security on that I can agree, but in numbers a vey small part of the population and they all don't fit the same mold. There is the homicidal loony, and the abject criminal. Both are terrorists in the same mold and using the same tactics as ISIS or any other known group of such ilk.
No secret the advance in technology has allowed the spread of loony and crimal ideas and as those with bad intent network, they feed the sickness to each other and feed off each other. They don't care about the consequences of thier actions, nor the havoc they reek on others because that's their GOAL, and that is what makes them evil in my book. Maybe some are desperate, young is what I put into that category, just sheep to be lead by a bad shepherd who needs a flock for his own selfish agenda and as such these people have been ingrained in our societies in some for or another since man came to earth. Some can be redeemed, some cannot, but it's the ability to be influenced or lead astray that's at the heart of it I think, and that is squarely at the feet of the technology that enables it, not the TV or video games as some might profess, but specifically those who use the technology for that purpose of finding and interacting with that evil that has always been a part of the nature of man, some decidedly more than others.
I got no problem with those who wish to save souls and find the good path, but you must acknowledge some humans search for the lesser path, so while you save souls stop passing out guns like they are candy. To your point though about it being more widespread, if it were it's not just the lone loon perpetrating mayhem it would be an army of them and that's a different evil, more pervasive and of more CRIMINALLY oriented.
Let's face it, it doesn't take a huge army of loons and criminals to prey on the innocent, just a small group or even one. Seems in addition to identifying those folks and giving someone the tools to do so, eliminating the means for those folks to organize and carryout their ends is a must! I just don't think a bible study or just prayers accomplishes that. Be nice though if people of good conscious would come together and deal with the root causes of such folks. As long as the good people are divided, we can never be a force to overcome the evil amongst us. We must do MORE than huddle in a group and just pray about it. That's just my own opinion.
Or unreported abhorrent behavior that went untreated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Far, far more likely he grabs a handgun. Rifles account for only a small percentage of gun deaths.Quote:
He grabs his AR-15
How many of the 2019 mass shootings so far have been done with a handgun?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Read carefully. "Rifles account for only a small percentage of gun deaths." That is not a reference to mass shootings.
The topic at hand is mass shootings.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
The topic at hand is gun control relative to violent gun crimes. But that's fine. I could actually go with some controls on so called "assault weapons", but every conservative knows that most gun control liberals, such as you for instance, want to have much stricter controls, so that fact makes any kind of compromise a real problem.Quote:
The topic at hand is mass shootings.
Why always the unnecessary putdown?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
There is absolutely NO NEED for assault weapons. They should all vaporize by midnight.
Obviously that rifle is as easy to get as a handgun, and the weapon of choice for young loonies who want to kill as many people as they can. What useful purpose does such a weapon have except to kill as many people as possible? Even those hand guns and their high capacity magazines serve that same purpose don't they? Of what use are those high capacity magazines except to kill as many people as possible before reloading and killing some more so in combination are the weapon of choice for mass murderers.
I don't know what stricter gun controls liberals want that conservative want other than a ban on assault weapons except for the military so you can explain the difference to this liberal JL.
It was not intended to be a putdown. I was simply pointing out that you have posted here before that you would like to see all guns done away with.Quote:
Why always the unnecessary putdown?
Tal's post is a perfect example. "What useful purpose does such a weapon have except to kill as many people as possible? Even those hand guns and their high capacity magazines serve that same purpose don't they? Of what use are those high capacity magazines except to kill as many people as possible before reloading and killing some more so in combination are the weapon of choice for mass murderers."
So you see what I mean? In addition to doing away with assault weapons, he wants to do away with at least some handguns.
Just look at your post above and you can plainly see it. For an even better example, look at the city of Chicago.Quote:
I don't know what stricter gun controls liberals want that conservative want other than a ban on assault weapons except for the military so you can explain the difference to this liberal JL.
In that example, it is a 25% wage increase, so I have no idea what you are talking about.Quote:
In this example, a 25% raise is a whole 'nother animal from a 25% wage increase!!!Quote:
If you are working at a Burger King for, let's say, 9 an hour, and you move to a chicken processing plant for 11.25, then you just received a 25% wage increase. Bear in mind that moving from a fast food place to a chicken plant was the topic.
You've been locked up in that library too long.
And then the personal put-down. That's why I rarely post here anymore.
It was not meant to be a putdown; it was meant to be a joke. My apologies if it was offensive. I do wish we had some emojis on this board.
You cool with banning the sale of assault weapons and HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES? What about comprehensive and THOROUGH background checks or age limits maybe with a responsible SPONSOR?Quote:
So you see what I mean? In addition to doing away with assault weapons, he wants to do away with at least some handguns.
You cannot stick to just arguing a topic, but always have to drag in a negative comment about whoever posted it. E.g, "most gun control liberals, such as you for instance"Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
An extra $16 bucks a day and 90 bucks a week, 4300 bucks a year is better than nothing but hardly the way out of poverty, but with some overtime...?Quote:
In that example, it is a 25% wage increase, so I have no idea what you are talking about.
You had originally said in #32, "Most people would consider a 25% raise to be a real step up. They are both respectable jobs for working people trying to make a living." Then you called it a 25% wage increase. Two different animals, especially for the chicken-hanger-to-burger-flipper-factory example you were going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
How is a raise different from a wage increase? In the end, doesn't it amount to the same thing?Quote:
You had originally said in #32, "Most people would consider a 25% raise to be a real step up. They are both respectable jobs for working people trying to make a living." Then you called it a 25% wage increase. Two different animals, especially for the chicken-hanger-to-burger-flipper-factory example you were going on.
About 350 dollars a month, and if two are working, then 700 a month. That can buy a modest house around here. It might not be a big deal to you, but for most poorer folks, being able to buy a house is HUGE!! Personally, I'd LOVE to get an extra 350 a month.Quote:
An extra $16 bucks a day and 90 bucks a week, 4300 bucks a year is better than nothing but hardly the way out of poverty, but with some overtime...?
Well?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Wage increase because of change to a different job, especially in a different department or company.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Raise while working at the same job.
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