Ask Me Help Desk - Baltimore Sun to Donald Trump

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I did offer a solution. Go to the cities that are doing well and see what they are doing that the dying cities like Detroit and Baltimore are not doing. In other words, stop passing on responsibility to the federal government that is currently almost 23 tril in debt. Detroit has paintings in their art gallery worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Why not sell about half of them and put that into their own infrastructure and debt reduction? In other words, get off your rear end and see what you can do to help yourself.

The same is true of Flint. Instead of waiting around for someone to come and rescue you, show some initiative and get busy cleaning up your water system. Find your own answers.

Ask Jackson, MS, Detroit, and Baltimore if it's a problem.

HOGWASH! That's the governments job to aid where they can and help with the money to help themselves. That's what a UNITED country is about. Helping it's citizens. Funny you don't say the same about your government help Big Biz make money with tax cuts and loopholes and write offs to protect the wealthy.

Why do I have to keep telling you about confusing life and BS?

I have peeps in most of the places you named and throughout some tough financial times no doubt they will grow and prosper. Some will grow faster than others.

Baltimore, Detroit, and Jackson aren't dying they are transitioning despite a few challenges. I have seen some great hospitals in Baltimore and million dollar homes.

Quote:

Funny you don't say the same about your government help Big Biz make money with tax cuts and loopholes and write offs to protect the wealthy.

For the ten millionth time, the top 20% of income earners are paying 85% of the income taxes. If you claim that's "protection", then you don't understand the meaning of the word. You have been listening to the democratic party propaganda too long.

Quote:

Baltimore, Detroit, and Jackson aren't dying they are transitioning despite a few challenges. I have seen some great hospitals in Baltimore and million dollar homes.

That statement really takes the cake. They are "transitioning"??? Is that kind of like losing about a fourth to a half of their population, having entire neighborhoods deserted, having a greatly reduced tax base, having sky high crime rates, losing thousands of jobs, seeing hundreds of millions of dollars of personal wealth go up in smoke, and being in, according to you, desperate need of a bailout by the federal taxpayers? That's the "transition" you're talking about? Good grief. And you want to say to me, "Why do I have to keep telling you about confusing life and BS?" Try listening to your own advice.

I never cease to be amazed at how far liberals will go to justify their support of democrat politicians.

You never did understand the difference between individual wealth and corporate protectionism. The top 1% have 90% of the wealth in America. I guess we're free to elect people and they can control what they do, for THEM. I mean you holler about people taking your money, while you give it away to guys like the dufus.

Math isn't your strong point is it?

Quote:

The top 1% have 90% of the wealth in America.

Completely and absurdly incorrect. Do you ever bother yourself to actually research what you say? Reading must not be your strong point. Yet again you are confusing life and BS.

In the meantime, Baltimore continues its "transition" to oblivion. "Six Baltimore City schools — five high schools and one middle school — were found to have not a single student who scored proficient in math or reading in 2016, "

You claim to have such concern for the kids on the southern border since you can blame that on Trump, but when it comes to these kids being ignored and warehoused in Baltimore, you express no concern since, after all, you can't blame that one on Trump.

https://www.educationdive.com/news/s...eading/443155/

Quote:

HOGWASH!

you're supposed to use "malarkey" .

Quote:

I wanted to use "God" but I didn't know if you were a believer, so I used the next best thing - your mother.

My moral compass is my own . It doesn't come from God or parentage .I am an adult with free will and opinions that are my own. I have been a landlord before and I assure you ,it is not worth it . Has nothing to do with my compassion. When I was a landlord I rented property to make money ...period .

Quote:

My moral compass is my own . It doesn't come from God or parentage .I am an adult with free will and opinions that are my own

A few observations.

1. I don't think that free will/opinions are really the same as a moral compass.

2. That's fine as long as you are prepared to let everyone else do the same. Be careful if you adopt that view. The results are not pleasant.

3. . How do you know that your moral compass did not come from God, your parents, or any one of hundreds of other influences? I don't think your moral compass developed in a vacuum. Now it is the result of decisions you have made, so that would be fair enough, but what outside sources influenced your decisions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Completely and absurdly incorrect. Do you ever bother yourself to actually research what you say? Reading must not be your strong point. Yet again you are confusing life and BS.

In the meantime, Baltimore continues its "transition" to oblivion. "Six Baltimore City schools — five high schools and one middle school — were found to have not a single student who scored proficient in math or reading in 2016, "

You claim to have such concern for the kids on the southern border since you can blame that on Trump, but when it comes to these kids being ignored and warehoused in Baltimore, you express no concern since, after all, you can't blame that one on Trump.

https://www.educationdive.com/news/s...eading/443155/

My bad! I'm just human and flawed and I own it. Please accept my correction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afflue..._United_States

The top 20% have 87.7 % of the wealth. Do the math, not much pie left.

A few observations.

Quote:

1. I don't think that free will/opinions are really the same as a moral compass.

I won't have any excuse that my actions are the result of my upbringing and my faith . They are my own and my faith as much as I choose to share it is also my own .

Quote:

2. That's fine as long as you are prepared to let everyone else do the same. Be careful if you adopt that view. The results are not pleasant.

I did not say I believe in relativism .There is a clear delineation between right and wrong .

Quote:

3. . How do you know that your moral compass did not come from God, your parents, or any one of hundreds of other influences? I don't think your moral compass developed in a vacuum. Now it is the result of decisions you have made, so that would be fair enough, but what outside sources influenced your decisions?

As an adult I have choices to make that have nothing to do with how I was raised . I could've been raised with a Christian upbringing and be a mass murderer . I could've been raised with no religious foundation by a broken family and still act like a saint . I certainly will not let that be excuses for my behavior . Free will is a blessing given to humans by God. When it is told that we are created in God's image that is exactly what is meant . When God says
“O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.”(Isaiah 48:18) There is a clear implication that we are created with free will .God gives us a choice .It is what we do in life that determines our futures and not something predetermined .

Now to the issue. I don't think there is any moral failing if someone owns rental properties that do not make that person money ;and the decision is to evict and to knock the homes down to build condos .

[QUOTE]The top 20% have 87.7 % of the wealth. Do the math, not much pie left.
[/QUOTE}
That assumes the pie is fixed and can't grow . I know differently . Bill Gates made a fortune by selling us Microsoft products . Thousands upon thousands of people purchased those Microsoft products and used them to enrich themselves . How would that be possible if the pie was fixed ?

Quote:

I did not say I believe in relativism .There is a clear delineation between right and wrong .

So how do you delineate between right and wrong? Is it your own personal beliefs, or there is there some authority outside of yourself that you appeal to?

Quote:

The top 20% have 87.7 % of the wealth. Do the math, not much pie left.

A lot better than the 1% owning 90%. I have no problem with that as long as the lower 80% have the freedom to move into that 20%. For very nearly all of human history, that freedom was not there. Now, for those who are mentally and physically healthy, the freedom exists to do that. Now it might require working 60 hours a week, not having children out of wedlock, sacrificing to get an education, staying out of senseless debt, learning to invest, and so forth, but it can be done.

Why is it bad for 20% to own 87% of the wealth, but OK for 20% to pay about that same amount of the income taxes?

Quote:

So how do you delineate between right and wrong? Is it your own personal beliefs, or there is there some authority outside of yourself that you appeal to?

What separates us from other animals is we live in a physical world and a moral world .
It is our moral nature that distinguishes us from the other animals . Right and wrong are implanted in our conscious . You can believe it is a gift from God . But if you are not a believer does that moral conscious change ? Does a terrorist get a pass for claiming their beliefs of right and wrong differs ? Our acts are free choices . However we are taught the acts of right and wrong do not change . It is universal . As I said ,we are all made in God's image . So you know where I stand . But how does an atheist know it is evil to murder . Why would that atheist man give up his seat on the bus to an old lady ? Belief does not necessarily have anything to do with it .

Quote:

It is our moral nature that distinguishes us from the other animals . Right and wrong are implanted in our conscious . You can believe it is a gift from God . But if you are not a believer does that moral conscious change ? Does a terrorist get a pass for claiming their beliefs of right and wrong differs ? Our acts are free choices . However we are taught the acts of right and wrong do not change . It is universal . As I said ,we are all made in God's image . So you know where I stand . But how does an atheist know it is evil to murder . Why would that atheist man give up his seat on the bus to an old lady ? Belief does not necessarily have anything to do with it .

In the Middle East it is widely believed that homosexuals should be executed. The Germans believed the Jews should have been exterminated. Many in the Middle East believe the same way even today. Many in this country believe that a newly born baby can be killed. Many countries still believe in slavery. Many in India and China feel no obligation to hep the poor and starving.

Who's right?

Was slavery wrong in 1859 ? Of course it was regardless of how many Americans believe otherwise .Was German genocide evil ? Of course it was . Is infanticide evil today ? You betcha . Does one need the 10 commandments to tell them that ? No.

Quote:

Was slavery wrong in 1859 ? Of course it was regardless of how many Americans believe otherwise .

You are basically saying that slavery is wrong because you say so. All those other people were wrong. Now I consider it to be wrong as well, but not because I say so or you say so. I appeal to a higher authority. If you can't do that, then it's just your opinion versus someone else's opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You are basically saying that slavery is wrong because you say so.

No, he isn't!

Quote:

No, he isn't!

OK. Then what authority is he appealing to, his own or another's?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

Was slavery wrong in 1859 ? Of course it was regardless of how many Americans believe otherwise .Was German genocide evil ? Of course it was . Is infanticide evil today ? You betcha . Does one need the 10 commandments to tell them that ? No.

I agree with you Tom and the stain that slavery left on your nation hasn't been erased. There are some who think we have no right to judge the acts of others but God tells us to make a right judgement and that includes helping the less fortunate, not judging them. Man obviously needed the 10 commandments to understand where the boundries are, and still does today, however we are incapable of keeping within these boundries so heeding even higher laws just doesn't get done.

Quote:

however we are incapable of keeping within these boundries so heeding even higher laws just doesn't get done.

Agreed. There is a higher law. Either that, or it's the rule of the majority.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Agreed. There is a higher law. Either that, or it's the rule of the majority.

The rule of the majority is a poor substitute and it isn't democracy

Quote:

The rule of the majority is a poor substitute and it isn't democracy

I wasn't referring to ruling (governance) as much as the majority determining what is moral.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I wasn't referring to ruling (governance) as much as the majority determining what is moral.

I have no confidence in the majority determining what is moral. Germany in the 1930's is a prime example, or the current legality of abortion in many places, I expect your comment was sardonic

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

OK. Then what authority is he appealing to, his own or another's?

It would be a generous, diplomatic move (better than an accusatory statement) to ask him.

You have a right to your own moral compass within the law. You can hold your own nose but not mine...without my consent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

You have a right to your own moral compass within the law. You can hold your own nose but not mine...without my consent.

I expect that is in your constitution somewhere

Quote:

Man obviously needed the 10 commandments to understand where the boundries are,

So only someone raised or who accepts Judeao-Christianity can know right from wrong ;evil from good and act accordingly ?

I generally do not respond to this type of discussion because it is better suited to a different forum. I've said enough on this . I'll continue to respond to discussion about the OP . and try not to respond to someone pointing the finger
J'Accuse at me because they think the position I take is not moral .

Quote:

I have no confidence in the majority determining what is moral. Germany in the 1930's is a prime example, or the current legality of abortion in many places, I expect your comment was sardonic

I agree completely. Actually, it was not sardonic. I meant it literally. Either we acknowledge a higher law or we submit to the determination of the majority. The signers of the Declaration of Independence knew this.

Quote:

It would be a generous, diplomatic move (better than an accusatory statement) to ask him.

I was not accusing him of anything. I was trying to summarize his statement for the purpose of discussion. I think a fair reading of what he wrote bears that out.

Quote:

and try not to respond to someone pointing the finger J'Accuse at me because they think the position I take is not moral .

I have not pointed a finger, called your position immoral, or accused you of anything. I am asking questions in the hopes of clarifying your views. You actually started this discussion with your statement that your moral beliefs are your own and not the result of being influenced by religion or parents. If you don't care to discuss it, then we'll just drop it. No problem and no bad reflection on anyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I agree completely. Actually, it was not sardonic. I meant it literally. Either we acknowledge a higher law or we submit to the determination of the majority. The signers of the Declaration of Independence knew this.

Room for BOTH, if one stays in his own lane, and obeys the law.

Quote:

I have not pointed a finger, called your position immoral, or accused you of anything

didn't say you did ;and no I did not start it . There was a reason I went down that path in this OP and it had nothing at all to do with anything you wrote . here is what initiated the exchange :

Quote:

there has never been any doubt that you care nothing for the less fortunate. Your love is for profits. Didn't your mother ever tell you about loving your neighbor? Did she say love your profits?

Quote:

Room for BOTH, if one stays in his own lane, and obeys the law.

One has to be above the other. There cannot be two co-equal laws. When they disagree, as they will, which one trumps the other?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

One has to be above the other. There cannot be two co-equal laws. When they disagree, as they will, which one trumps the other?

The one YOU choose to follow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

One has to be above the other. There cannot be two co-equal laws. When they disagree, as they will, which one trumps the other?

The Bible tells me to stay in my own lane. Illinois law tells me to stay in my own lane.

Quote:

The Bible tells me to stay in my own lane.

The Bible tells you to stay in God's lane.

Quote:

The one YOU choose to follow.

So does everyone get to choose?

Don't know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

The Bible tells me to stay in my own lane. Illinois law tells me to stay in my own lane.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

The Bible tells you to stay in God's lane.

So does everyone get to choose?

No, JL; you don't understand. The Bible tells me to stay in my own lane so I don't hurt or kill anyone else. Illinois law tells me the same thing.

Both of you, I suspect, understand quite well what the question is. You two keep wanting to tell me what your source of personal moral belief is. I get that quite well, but that's not the real question. The REAL question is this. Does everyone else get to choose their own source of morality?

If they do, then do we have to honor those moral values?

If they don't, then what source of moral values should they choose?

It is an amazingly important question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

The REAL question is this. Does everyone else get to choose their own source of morality?

Did God give man free will? (The El Paso shooter even wrote a two-page manifesto to explain his reason for killing, what his choice of morality is.)

God said, "Thou shalt not kill." The US government doesn't tell us not to kill anyone, not to murder, but if someone does so, the government will identify and punish the murderer. Thus, in this way, we are tacitly told not to kill anyone.

Both of you, I suspect, understand quite well what the question is. You two keep wanting to tell me what your source of personal moral belief is.

Not really but you're the one asking so if that's what you want to know then just ask. Why are you beating around the bush? You probably know already any way so why the questions and why do they matter to you?

Does everyone else get to choose their own source of morality?

If they want. That would be up to them wouldn't it?

If they do, then do we have to honor those moral values?

If you choose to. Isn't that up to you?

If they don't, then what source of moral values should they choose?

Isn't that a question they should answer for themselves? What's stopping them from choosing what they want?