Ask Me Help Desk

Ask Me Help Desk (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/forum.php)
-   Current Events (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=486)
-   -   The harm trump is doing (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=846142)

  • Aug 5, 2019, 09:33 AM
    talaniman
    I'll say it again there are good parts doing great in every big city, and their are the not so good parts where the poor folks are. Baltimore is no different despite you and the dufus trying to broad brush the whole city as a dump. I mean millionaires live their too and send them to great schools so cut the crap. Been there seen it, and why follow the dufus example of blasting the bad, and ignore the rest?

    That's LOONY and deceptive by you conservatives. That's why you have few minorities among you. None in the house, one in the senate.
  • Aug 5, 2019, 08:40 PM
    paraclete
    Trump, a bluff called
    this is what happens when you bluff in poker, someone calls your bluff. but what if you are not playing poker, you are playing economic bluff?

    if China were a capitalist economy the bluff might have worked, but China is a controlled economy. so Trump played his high stakes game and he is about to lose, the US may be a trading partner but China has many other trading partners so loss of US business hurts but it doesn't kill the economy. China has yet to play the next card, which is sell off the US junk bonds it has invested in and kill the US bond market. This is what happens when you allow a man with no economic credentials to call the shots. The Trump crash of 2019
  • Aug 6, 2019, 03:31 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    That's LOONY and deceptive by you conservatives.
    The school system is doing badly, violent crime is very high, and the city has lost about 300,000 in population over the past few decades, yet you seem to think the place is great. So you think I'm the one who is being "loony and deceptive"?
  • Aug 6, 2019, 04:20 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    This is what happens when you allow a man with no economic credentials to call the shots.
    No offense intended, but you are basically asking us to trust YOUR economic credentials. What are they?
  • Aug 6, 2019, 05:53 AM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    No offense intended, but you are basically asking us to trust YOUR economic credentials. What are they?

    Several economics studies are part of my degree as well as a micro economic study of rural electric distribution and numerous feasibility studies. So let's throw in a couple of fellowships and you can lay your economic cards on the table
  • Aug 6, 2019, 06:39 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Several economics studies are part of my degree as well as a micro economic study of rural electric distribution and numerous feasibility studies. So let's throw in a couple of fellowships and you can lay your economic cards on the table
    Don't have any and don't claim to have any. You, from the sound of it, have taken a few courses in economics and made a study or two. Trump, on the other hand, has put together a business worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Again, no offense intended, but to compare the two of you, you have studied some economics, and he has actually put it into practice with great success. And yet you want to refer to him as a man with "no economic credentials". That's kind of funny since he does have a degree in economics.

    Now you might be right concerning his handling of China. I don't know, but to suggest he has no economic credentials is just not correct.
  • Aug 6, 2019, 09:42 AM
    talaniman
    I find it fascinating you call for credentials to verify believability, while having none of your own, and often disagree and blast others for differing perspectives. I'll remember that when we debate tax cuts, less revenue, and stealing from the poor, since I know you hate the gubmint taking YOUR money and giving to someone you say doesn't deserve it, but are okay with having YO' money go into the pockets of the dufus and his friends while you pay for stuff we all need.

    Clete points about this trade war is spot on and I agree for the reasons given.

    Quote:

    I don't know, but to suggest he has no economic credentials is just not correct.


    You don't know how he makes his money, just what he tells you about. You know he LIES, CHEATS, and STEALS for sure, and YOU have never asked him to verify HIS credentials. Dope dealers and criminals are rich too.
  • Aug 6, 2019, 10:23 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    I find it fascinating you call for credentials to verify believability, while having none of your own, and often disagree and blast others for differing perspectives. I'll remember that when we debate tax cuts, less revenue, and stealing from the poor, since I know you hate the gubmint taking YOUR money and giving to someone you say doesn't deserve it, but are okay with having YO' money go into the pockets of the dufus and his friends while you pay for stuff we all need.
    If you would bother to read Clete's comment, which is what I was responding to, he alleged Trump had no credentials in economy, so I was pointing out that, in truth, Trump's credentials were a good bit better than Clete's. I have never claimed to have any thing other than an opinion in economics, so I'm not going to disagree with Trump and then claim he has no economic credentials. That is simply not true.


    Quote:

    You don't know how he makes his money, just what he tells you about. You know he LIES, CHEATS, and STEALS for sure, and YOU have never asked him to verify HIS credentials. Dope dealers and criminals are rich too.
    Well, I know he built a multi-billionaire company. I know you haven't, I haven't, and Clete hasn't, so I am willing to give him so credit for that. You hate him too much to give him credit for anything, and instead you accuse him of criminal activity which I think is unfortunate.
  • Aug 6, 2019, 11:31 AM
    talaniman
    Bilking contractors, and consumers, as well as padding his billing accounts, as well as his famous not renting to blacks are such admirable qualities and business practices. I don't have to hate the person so much as hating what he does and how he does it.
  • Aug 6, 2019, 12:07 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Bilking contractors, and consumers, as well as padding his billing accounts, as well as his famous not renting to blacks are such admirable qualities and business practices. I don't have to hate the person so much as hating what he does and how he does it.
    If it makes you feel better. I'm sure that her sterling character is why you voted for HC.
  • Aug 6, 2019, 12:56 PM
    talaniman
    How many times have I heard that? How do you hold your nose and fold your arms at the same time? I have to go cut my toenails, let me know when you are back to 2019, from your good old days ruminations.
  • Aug 6, 2019, 01:02 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    How many times have I heard that? How do you hold your nose and fold your arms at the same time? I have to go cut my toenails, let me know when you are back to 2019, from your good old days ruminations.
    I just like to point out to the Holy Joes that they have no room to talk when it comes to character. I'll take a vibrant, healthy economy with Trump over stagnation with HC any day of the week. It makes holding my nose a lot more tolerable.
  • Aug 6, 2019, 02:32 PM
    talaniman
    If that makes you feel better, but by that metric you can't talk either, since you have no evidence whatsoever that an HC economy would be stagnated. You like to speculate to make stuff up.

    How come Ms hasn't caught that vibrant economy yet?
  • Aug 6, 2019, 02:57 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    If that makes you feel better, but by that metric you can't talk either, since you have no evidence whatsoever that an HC economy would be stagnated. You like to speculate to make stuff up.
    Fair enough.

    Quote:

    How come Ms hasn't caught that vibrant economy yet?
    Unemployment is 5%. Sounds pretty good to me. Could be better, but certainly better than the Obama years.
  • Aug 6, 2019, 03:01 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    if China were a capitalist economy the bluff might have worked, but China is a controlled economy. so Trump played his high stakes game and he is about to lose, the US may be a trading partner but China has many other trading partners so loss of US business hurts but it doesn't kill the economy. China has yet to play the next card, which is sell off the US junk bonds it has invested in and kill the US bond market. This is what happens when you allow a man with no economic credentials to call the shots. The Trump crash of 2019

    The falacy here is the assumption that China and US are trading partners and not competitors . I don't mind what he is doing with China. But he should be up front to the US people what is at stake . He's asking us to do the equivalent of going into economic war footing . China will not sell off it's US debt holding because they have no better place to put their capital . That was one of the reasons I cited for the benefits of having a trade deficit with a nation. We bought their goods and paid for it with fiat currency . They are holding on to that and have no place to reinvest it except right back in the US.

    Trump is trying to get them back to the table . But it is their economy in peril ,not ours . Yes this can cause pain and if his base doesn't understand it he is taking political risks .
    But
    China is financing continued cheap exports on the backs of it’s citizens now, who are about to get smashed with hyperinflation due to the devaluation .So let's see who blinks first .
  • Aug 6, 2019, 03:05 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    If you would bother to read Clete's comment, which is what I was responding to, he alleged Trump had no credentials in economy, so I was pointing out that, in truth, Trump's credentials were a good bit better than Clete's. I have never claimed to have any thing other than an opinion in economics, so I'm not going to disagree with Trump and then claim he has no economic credentials. That is simply not true.



    Well, I know he built a multi-billionaire company. I know you haven't, I haven't, and Clete hasn't, so I am willing to give him so credit for that. You hate him too much to give him credit for anything, and instead you accuse him of criminal activity which I think is unfortunate.

    You know, you are full of it and you know nothing about me and what I have achieved in life and I don't have to justify mysself to you. My qualifications in economic as are at least as good as Trump's and from a practical standpoint far exceed his. He has demonstrated little understanding and has relied entirely on bravado and B/S. You want to brown nose for him, go ahead, but I won't give him a pass for being destructive
  • Aug 6, 2019, 03:39 PM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Unemployment is 5%. Sounds pretty good to me. Could be better, but certainly better than the Obama years.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo.../#7a62e1e81af3

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    The falacy here is the assumption that China and US are trading partners and not competitors . I don't mind what he is doing with China. But he should be up front to the US people what is at stake . He's asking us to do the equivalent of going into economic war footing . China will not sell off it's US debt holding because they have no better place to put their capital . That was one of the reasons I cited for the benefits of having a trade deficit with a nation. We bought their goods and paid for it with fiat currency . They are holding on to that and have no place to reinvest it except right back in the US.

    Trump is trying to get them back to the table . But it is their economy in peril ,not ours . Yes this can cause pain and if his base doesn't understand it he is taking political risks .
    But
    China is financing continued cheap exports on the backs of it’s citizens now, who are about to get smashed with hyperinflation due to the devaluation .So let's see who blinks first .

    Beats bombs and blood and guts but may be a long hard slog.
  • Aug 6, 2019, 06:42 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post


    Beats bombs and blood and guts but may be a long hard slog.

    What Trump has done is destabilise major trade relationships, and for what purpose? China and America are hardly economic rivals but they are political rivals. If Trump hopes to block other trading partners of China to American advantage he lacks understanding. China has more than a billion people to look after and millions to lift out of poverty. Their focus is largely inward and their actions for local consumption.

    Noone but Trump speaks of bombs and blood and guts. America should remember that the last time they met China on the battleground it was a stalemate despite America's firepower and economic advantage. If Trump wants to have cheap labour industries in America he only has to open the borders. You see I see basic flaws in his thinking and this is because it is based on B/S
  • Aug 6, 2019, 07:33 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    You know, you are full of it and you know nothing about me and what I have achieved in life and I don't have to justify mysself to you. My qualifications in economic as are at least as good as Trump's and from a practical standpoint far exceed his. He has demonstrated little understanding and has relied entirely on bravado and B/S. You want to brown nose for him, go ahead, but I won't give him a pass for being destructive
    Good grief. You are so sensitive! I was not being critical of you. Yeah, I don't know much about you, so that's why I asked.

    But when you say that from a practical standpoint your credentials far exceed his, you make me laugh out loud. So you've built a multinational business worth hundreds of millions of dollars? Wow. What a preposterous statement. And I doubt that you have any more than a slight idea of what he has relied on.

    I'm not a Trump supporter, but I do appreciate the truth.
  • Aug 6, 2019, 07:39 PM
    jlisenbe
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo.../#7a62e1e81af3

    Did they mention that Obama had the weakest recovery from a recession in postwar history, with not a single quarter of GDP growth above 3%?

    "This result is not just bad, it is catastrophic. The average American should not be wondering if his or her income is a bit above or below 2007 levels. Just by historical averages, the average American should be 20% better off than in 2007. And this slow growth is settling in as a permanent new-abnormal."

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/rexsinq.../#335023f4cb0e
  • Aug 6, 2019, 10:24 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    But when you say that from a practical standpoint your credentials far exceed his, you make me laugh out loud. So you've built a multinational business worth hundreds of millions of dollars? Wow. What a preposterous statement. And I doubt that you have any more than a slight idea of what he has relied on.

    .

    I never said I built an international business but I have managed a large business and established successful businesses from scratch without benefit of family money. No business I was associated with became bankrupt. Now you stack that up against a cheat who relied on financial thuggery to profit and like you I appreciate truth.

    The whole point of the argument I have put forward is Trump's unconventional dealings will and are creating chaos. However, as you obviously agree with his beggar my neighbour policies I don't expect you to understand
  • Aug 7, 2019, 04:25 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    I never said I built an international business but I have managed a large business and established successful businesses from scratch without benefit of family money. No business I was associated with became bankrupt. Now you stack that up against a cheat who relied on financial thuggery to profit and like you I appreciate truth.
    Fair enough, and I have no doubt you have a solid knowledge of economics, but it's still a stretch of serious dimensions to suggest that your economic credentials "far exceed" Trump's. I feel quite certain that you have no idea of how Trump built his businesses.

    Quote:

    However, as you obviously agree with his beggar my neighbor policies I don't expect you to understand
    So we just have to depend upon your wise insights? I think I'll pass on that one. I do agree with Trump's intention to no longer allow China to take advantage of open U.S. markets. Now is his strategy the right one? I don't know, but the idea of endless international trade negotiations plainly did not work.
  • Aug 7, 2019, 05:20 AM
    talaniman
    I have more up to date data

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...gdp-in-the-us/

    And

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...es-since-1990/
  • Aug 7, 2019, 06:14 AM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    I don't know, but the idea of endless international trade negotiations plainly did not work.

    I think you are right on both counts and it was painless too
  • Aug 7, 2019, 06:30 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    I have more up to date data
    I was in error in my statement. I should have said he did not have a single YEAR of GDP growth above 3%, not quarter. I wouldn't suggest that Obama was an economic disaster, but it took a doubling of the national debt to do it, and still the results were lukewarm, being the slowest recovery from recession since WW2. I'm not sure that Trump is not guilty of the same thing in that he is also running enormous deficits, but the economy is plainly in much better shape than it was under Obama. Reagan came into office with challenges at least the equal of Obama's and probably even more severe, but he had several years of great economic growth in his two terms, producing SIX years of GDP growth in excess of 3%, so I don't accept the idea that Obama did a great job.
  • Aug 7, 2019, 06:36 AM
    talaniman
    I think that endless talking on multiple fronts is a healthy thing for international relationships. China does many things that can stand adjustments, but trade deficits isn't one of them. No one on Earth can match the US economy, so a deficit is expected. Nor can we expect any country to let our businesses come in and run roughshod over their economy or country. I think you have to keep talking in ANY relationship, be it individuals or countries to arrive at the consensus to move forward that works for both sides.

    Wild soaring rhetoric and badmouthing just escalates tensions and leads down a path of intransigence. Even on this forum! *D.

    GUILTY!!
  • Aug 7, 2019, 07:03 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    I think you have to keep talking in ANY relationship, be it individuals or countries to arrive at the consensus to move forward that works for both sides.
    So how did that work out for the Brits when they were negotiating with Hitler in 39? Negotiations are fine as long as both sides mean business, but frequently it comes down to, "How much of your stuff do I intend to take? Let's talk about that." That is what negotiating with the Chinese is like.

    Quote:

    No one on Earth can match the US economy, so a deficit is expected.
    Why is that true?

    Quote:

    Nor can we expect any country to let our businesses come in and run roughshod over their economy or country.
    Why should we expect them to run roughshod over our American businesses with their unfair trading practices? Can't we develop enough backbone to stand up for ourselves and for our own citizens?

    Most of the world is just fine with accepting the safety of the security net provided by us as long as they don't have to pay for it or even be the least bit appreciative of it. They are perfectly happy to accept our markets and money and will gladly negotiate from now til doomsday as long as nothing real is expected of them. I'm glad Trump is finally saying, "Play fair or be prepared to suffer." I realize it is risky, but it is time to try something else.
  • Aug 7, 2019, 08:38 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    So how did that work out for the Brits when they were negotiating with Hitler in 39? Negotiations are fine as long as both sides mean business, but frequently it comes down to, "How much of your stuff do I intend to take? Let's talk about that." That is what negotiating with the Chinese is like.

    Yes the reality is sometimes talking doesn't work, especially when one side or the other is stuck in their position or unwilling to compromise, or and it happens, is deceptive or unwilling to trust...or verify.

    Quote:

    Quote:

    No one on Earth can match the US economy, so a deficit is expected.

    Why is that true?
    I doubt many countries are even capable for whatever reason to take our stuff in the same volume we take theirs.

    Quote:

    Why should we expect them to run roughshod over our American businesses with their unfair trading practices? Can't we develop enough backbone to stand up for ourselves and for our own citizens?
    That's great in our country, but when we go there it's their rules, and Big Biz can abide or NOT. Of course American biz cares about the profits before people HERE, so they likely take that attitude where ever they go.

    Quote:

    Most of the world is just fine with accepting the safety of the security net provided by us as long as they don't have to pay for it or even be the least bit appreciative of it. They are perfectly happy to accept our markets and money and will gladly negotiate from now til doomsday as long as nothing real is expected of them. I'm glad Trump is finally saying, "Play fair or be prepared to suffer." I realize it is risky, but it is time to try something else.
    Good point but what nation on Earth besides us can pay nearly a trillion bucks a year for the tools of safety and security? 2% of their GDP is the NATO rate, and they don't PAY us, they join us as best they can. Sometimes they can't afford it. Understandable as conditions are different, but as far as being grateful, I don't get that since when the shooting start they seem to be there. It's coordinated not just follow me because I said so.

    You do realize economically we dominate the world as it is bar none. Militarily we dominate the world also. You want grateful subjects then you don't just dominate but socially and culturally we all do our thing. You think you can demand gratitude and loyalty? You do realize that it's big Biz that sets the pace economically as in China and anyone that doesn't think our government isn't as involved in big biz as they are is crazy.

    Like we don't manipulate the markets, more than they do.
  • Aug 7, 2019, 02:01 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    China and America are hardly economic rivals
    no really ,we are . The US did not know it through 3 administrations but that doesn't change the fact .

    Quote:

    If Trump wants to have cheap labour industries in America he only has to open the borders.
    No we don't want cheap labor industries . But our trading partners south of the border wouldn't mind US purchasing from them instead of China . We have options besides being hot pokered up the keaster by the Chinese
  • Aug 7, 2019, 02:11 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    That's great in our country, but when we go there it's their rules, and Big Biz can abide or NOT. Of course American biz cares about the profits before people HERE, so they likely take that attitude where ever they go.
    When I read comments like that, it makes me want to put on a MAGA cap and support someone who actually cares about American businesses and the workers who depend on those businesses.

    Quote:

    2% of their GDP is the NATO rate, and they don't PAY us, they join us as best they can. Sometimes they can't afford it.
    So Germany, France, the UK, Norway, Japan, and Sweden can't afford to do their fair share? Really? Germany is actually 1.2%. Japan is less than 1%. We are 23 tril in debt, partly because of having to defend countries who are not interested in defending themselves. Israel is spending 5% of GDP on defense, so I won't get teary eyed about expecting wealthy European nations to do their part.

    Quote:

    You do realize economically we dominate the world as it is bar none. Militarily we dominate the world also. You want grateful subjects then you don't just dominate but socially and culturally we all do our thing. You think you can demand gratitude and loyalty? You do realize that it's big Biz that sets the pace economically as in China and anyone that doesn't think our government isn't as involved in big biz as they are is crazy.
    Yeah. If we are going to protect their rear ends, then I would like to see some gratitude and loyalty. I'd like to see us pull out of a lot of these places and let them fend for themselves. We cannot afford to continue to be the world's policeman and security guard.
  • Aug 7, 2019, 03:11 PM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    When I read comments like that, it makes me want to put on a MAGA cap and support someone who actually cares about American businesses and the workers who depend on those businesses.

    You don't have a MAGA hat? I'm shocked!
  • Aug 7, 2019, 03:21 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    You don't have a MAGA hat? I'm shocked!
    Not the shirt, hat, bumper sticker, or anything else. However, I could be talked into a "Give American business a level playing field" bumper sticker.
  • Aug 7, 2019, 04:22 PM
    talaniman
    American business RUNS the whole country already. Has for a very long time.
  • Aug 7, 2019, 05:06 PM
    jlisenbe
    American business elected a democrat House? I don't think so.
  • Aug 7, 2019, 06:31 PM
    paraclete
    Business does what business does, however I don't recall businesses despite being regarded as entities been given the vote
  • Aug 11, 2019, 06:57 AM
    talaniman
    Individuals have the vote, but the big money has the control of the laws, how they are written and enforced, no matter who you voted for. That's why half the eligible voters don't bother to vote in the first place.
  • Aug 11, 2019, 09:56 AM
    Athos
    Businesses "vote" by paying off the elected officials. They do this by contributing to their PACS and campaigns and in other nefarious ways. The elected officials then vote as their business masters desire while telling the ordinary citizen voter that their needs are being addressed. This has been the Republican playbook for many decades. It is also partially the Democratic playbook but to a lesser degree.

    It is important to understand the Republicans are basically a monolithic block worshiping profits and greed. The Democrats are anything but monolithic, being a "big tent" with many different constituencies contained therein.

    In a country so dedicated to "getting ahead" and finding happiness in "things", it is natural for the political system to reflect those false values. An American meme is that each generation must be better off (materially) than the previous generation. That bit of nonsense is the result of a "consumer culture" that constantly feeds on itself. Better a culture that concentrates on the unfairly treated segment of society where the meme is appropriate.

    There is no better proof of these ideas than the current occupant of the White House. Donald Trump personifies the worst in America, a gross consumer with an ever-widening maw to take in everything he can. He has fooled a sizable portion of the populace with his "money, money, money" theme song, but it is to be hoped his day of reckoning is not far off.

    This country is in desperate need of leaders with integrity and decency.
  • Aug 11, 2019, 12:23 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    It is important to understand the Republicans are basically a monolithic block worshiping profits and greed. The Democrats are anything but monolithic, being a "big tent" with many different constituencies contained therein.
    Conservatives generally vote republican. Liberals generally vote democrat. That's about as monolithic as it gets in both cases.
  • Aug 11, 2019, 12:39 PM
    tomder55
    imagine all those poor, rural ,barely making ends meet, Republican voters ;and the Dems thinking they worship profits and greed .
  • Aug 11, 2019, 01:17 PM
    jlisenbe
    Yeah. All those who belong in the basket of deplorables.

  • All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:36 AM.