I was referring to the House which is in dem hands. But if your point is that both dems and repubs are dumb, I might be inclined to agree with you.
|
I was referring to the House which is in dem hands. But if your point is that both dems and repubs are dumb, I might be inclined to agree with you.
The dems JUST got there, and while they have passed meaningful legislation, repubs led by Mitch, ain't doing nothing.
Why am I not surprised.Quote:
The dems JUST got there, and while they have passed meaningful legislation, repubs led by Mitch, ain't doing nothing.
Are you surprised that Mitch has been majority Leader with Boehner and Ryan running the house since 2011 and they have done next to nothing?
You are partially correct. They had to fight Obama much of that time, but in Trump's first two years they should have accomplished more, like funding the wall. Now as to what the dem House has accomplished so far, they have... done nothing other than go on and on about impeachment.
That's easy enough to check what the congress has done the last 4 months. If you read the Mueller Report you might learn why there is so much talk of impeachment. Of course you aren't going to bother with that. You have Hannity and Faux News to think for you.
So in four months they have read the M report. Wow. How impressive.
Look we get it, Trump leaves much to be desired as a president and a person, but unfortunately, he represents the views of more than 50% of voters on the day he was elected. This is sad, but true and says something about the state of the nation so fundamental you cannot ignore it. I would like to see a statesman in office but they are hard to come byQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
I don't think they would allow it.Quote:
I would like to see a statesman in office
James Freeman Clarke
“The difference between a politician and a statesman is that a politician thinks about the next election while the statesman think about the next generation.”
Well said
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
No he doesn't. He got 46.1% of the voters. Hillary got 48.2%. She got almost THREE MILLION more votes than Trump.
Not only that, Republicans are beginning to bail. Judge Napoli of FOX-News is one of Trump's closest associates and he went public Thursday blasting Trump for obstruction of justice after reading the Mueller Report. He cited 10 occurrences. Another Republican informed his constituents he was leaving the Republican Party and joining the Democrats.
Napoli is a shocker since he has been a die-hard Trump supporter.
The noose tightens - ever so slowly.
I have no clue what you are yammering about, but most of us have read it in the week or so it's been out, and it's SCATHING, both for collusion and certainly for obstruction, so I suggest you read it for yourself and we can debate THAT! I told you the guy is a lying, cheating dufus, so leave the dem house alone for doing it's job under the constitution. Repubs certainly haven't and the senate is still feckless, cowards.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Why do you expect everybody to do as you do and hold their nose while dufus blathers on and his new sycophant Barr lies to your face? Why do you think they are stalling, desperately trying to run the clock out to the election? Nixon's landslide didn't save him and if the dufus gets re elected, I doubt that will save him either.
It's his ONLY hope though, as long as you true believers refuse to READ!
Must not have been clear to Mueller because he did not recommend charges in either case. HC was declared guilty by Comey but then he decided not to bring charges and you were fine with that and promptly let it go. Same thing here except the hatred of all things Trump is very apparent.Quote:
but most of us have read it in the week or so it's been out, and it's SCATHING, both for collusion and certainly for obstruction,
AGAIN the first two pages of the report explains he would not recommend charges on either issue because DOJ policy prohibits it. He also explained the lack of cooperation by the WH, and the dufus. It's insane to debate what the Mueller report actually says until you read it for yourself. Until you do you will sound like a moron like the rest of the right wing loony sycophants.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I'm sure by now the dufus actually knows what it says since he has 40 lawyers to read it for him, and he can tell you true believers what he wants you to hear.
From what I think is the second page you are referring to, which is page 2 of the report, we find this: "the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities." Seems pretty clear to me and a lot less than "scathing".
Where do you see on those two pages that the DOJ prohibited the recommendation of charges?
What is it you are telling us? Hillary has been in the game for a long time. Do you understand why she is upset? She cheated, conspired, swindled, lied, manipulated etc. in an attempt to win the Presidency. She was faced against a know imbecile (I think we all agree), she said as much during her campaign. She played (underhandedly) and was convinced that she would be a sure win. Of course when she lost she thought she had been slighted. She played the game, and was not found out (cheating, conspiring, swindling, lying, manipulating etc.) and still lost,to an ignoramus. I would be upset as well, but if she was to be honest, with herself, she would surely see that she was trying to manipulate the system and has no real reason to be upset. I think what really hurts is that she lost, despite the opposition not providing any "hard evidence" showing her as a cheat...she cheated but that never became an issue. Believe me, nobody likes losing to an idiot, specially when you run a rigged game.
I was in Ireland many years ago, I was listening to the election results and the Candidate that won the election was a known felon, had to wonder...The candidate who was best suited (did good for the country) to run the country was it, it didn't matter if he was a crook. We are dealing with the same thing. Besides, I don't believe Trump is as underhanded as the others, what you see is what you get. He is doing the best he can. You should thank him for taking the Job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
First, a traditional prosecution or declination decision entails a binary determination to initiate or decline a prosecution, but we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. The Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) has issued an opinion finding that "the indictment or criminal prosecution of a sitting President would impermissibly undermine the capacity of the executive branch to perform its constitutionally assigned functions" in violation of "the constitutional separation of powers."1 Given the role of the Special Counsel as an attorney in the Department of Justice and the framework of the Special Counsel regulations, see 28 U.S.C. § 515; 28 C.F.R. § 600.7(a), this Office accepted OLC's legal conclusion for the purpose of exercising prosecutorial jurisdiction. And apart from OLC's constitutional view, we recognized that a federal criminal accusation against a sitting President would place burdens on the President's capacity to govern and potentially preempt constitutional processes for addressing presidential misconduct.2
Second, while the OLC opinion concludes that a sitting President may not be prosecuted, it recognizes that a criminal investigation during the President's term is permissible.3 The OLC opinion also recognizes that a President does not have immunity after he leaves office.4 And if individuals other than the President committed an obstruction safeguarding the integrity of the criminal justice system, we conducted a thorough factual investigation in order to preserve the evidence when memories were fresh and documentary materials were available.
Third, we considered whether to evaluate the conduct we investigated under the Justice Manual standards governing prosecution and declination decisions, but we determined not to apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes. The threshold step under the Justice Manual standards is to assess whether a person's conduct "constitutes a federal offense." U.S. Dep't of Justice, Justice Manual§ 9-27.220 (2018) (Justice Manual). Fairness concerns counseled against potentially reaching that judgment when no charges can be brought. The ordinary means for an individual to respond to an accusation is through a speedy and public trial, with all the procedural protections that surround a criminal case. An individual who believes he was wrongly accused can use that process to seek to clear his name. In contrast, a prosecutor's judgment that crimes were committed, but that no charges will be brought, affords no such adversarial opportunity for public name-clearing before an impartial adjudicator.5 [/FONT]offense, they may be prosecuted at this time. Given those considerations, the facts known to us, and the strong public interest in safeguarding the integrity of the criminal justice system, we conducted a thorough factual investigation in order to preserve the evidence when memories were fresh and documentary materials were available.
1 A Sitting President's Amenability to Indictment and Criminal Prosecution, 24 Op. O.L.C. 222, 222, 260 (2000) (OLC Op.). 2 See U.S. CONST. Art. I § 2, cl. 5; § 3, cl. 6; cf OLC Op. at 257-258 (discussing relationship between impeachment and criminal prosecution of a sitting President).
3 OLC Op. at 257 n.36 ("A grand jury could continue to gather evidence throughout the period of immunity"). 4 OLC Op. at 255 ("Recognizing an immunity from prosecution for a sitting President would not preclude such prosecution once the President's term is over or he is otherwise removed from office by resignation or impeachment").
That is nowhere to be found on the first two pages as you said it was. Now again, we do read this: "the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.
So where did you find the above?
How did Mueller spend two years investigating every aspect of Russian interference...and not consider the possibility that the dossier was part of the Russian interference effort?
Sorry my bad it was p214 which is page 2 on another volume. And do we have to go through this again? The reason he gave was that the WH didn't cooperate fully, though they SAY they did and a few even plead the 5th. I suppose I have to find that too? Lets do this, read the thing and stop nitpicking.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Take your time it's loaded, but be aware that the labeled redactions indicated a lot more could be revealed later from ongoing open investigations. It also indicates the intel community and the FBI assisted Mr. Mueller. It's quite apparent that it's nothing like the dufus version or even what Barr put out. It's no wonder the dufus has gone into the full court stall and is desperately spinning his total lies.
The very idea that those subpoenas or lawsuits against the congress for documents they want reaches SCOTUS has me giddy with anticipation. It's historic I tell you!
Outside the scope of Mueller. Different investigation.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
nope ;in the wheel house and the very essence of the mandate he was given .Quote:
Outside the scope of Mueller. Different investigation.
Rosenstein directed Mueller to “conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James B. Comey in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, " Comey testified about the counterintelligence investigation of the Trump campaign launched by the FBI. This investigation relied heavily the Steele Dossier .Mueller’s authorized jurisdiction encompassed the who, why, what, when, where, and how of the genesis of the Steele dossier and its use by Comey’s FBI to undermine Trump’s candidacy and, failing that, to undo the outcome of the 2016 presidential election.The logical starting point of any collusion investigation would be the Steele dossier. So, did Mueller investigate or interrogate Christopher Steele, Glenn Simpson of Fusion GPS, or the Evita campaign and DNC operatives who paid for the dossier?Did the investigation delve into the FBI and Department of Justice’s use of the dossier to obtain FISA warrants to intercept the communications of Carter Page? Did they investigate those who drafted, verified, and submitted the misleading FISA applications?Did they investigate or question Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, Andrew McCabe, or other government officials to determine if they or anyone else participated in an effort to spy on the Trump campaign or to overthrow the Trump presidency?
Mueller's report found that“ Russian government actors successfully hacked into computers and obtained emails from persons affiliated with the Clinton campaign and Democratic Party organization ”So, did his investigation involve Evita's private, unsecured, home email system?;or was that "outside the scope " too ?
Of course we don't know what's redacted, but Mueller did acknowledge the collaboration between his investigation and the FBI investigation which leads me to believe they were separate and ongoing. He leads heavily into contacts between Russia and the election campaign, but I think it's relevant that he has referred a lot of the investigations, 12 at least by my count, to other jurisdictions. A subject even Barr has not commented on, except and I can only speculate was part of his famous SPYING reference he claims to be looking into.
I doubt he went back to re examine anything beyond the Russian meddling, but we never know for sure. Now what Barr is looking into may be encompassing that, but he has Rosenstein right there to fill him in and see what those FISA warrants were about.
It was spelled out that the stuff redacted was from Grand Jury investigations . The referals were the things outside his scope of authority .So they had nothing to do with Russian interference .My point is that Mueller conveniently left out the genesis questions and that is why I call it the Mueller dossier instead of report . He made it tailor made to be the template for further Congressional action by the Dems or at least an oppo research for the 2020 campaign .
I have to agree with that it was written for the congress for sure. They are the only authority to take actions needed, since by policy DOJ cannot, and that includes Mueller. Now there seems to be nothing stopping a DOJ review of those things you allude to which I thought was already covered in the IG report, due out soon. I must point out that Barr lied when the Mueller REPORT was finished, so has little credibility to describe the IG report to the public upon it's completion.
Hope they nail his tail at his hearing before congress. Maybe get to the bottom of opposition by the WH into that collusion thing.
what ? I thought he was Saint Mueller .
https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic.../2321058_0.jpg
Interesting op ed from David Satter who worked out of Russia ,as a journalist, for many years .Quote:
Without intending to, the Mueller report has solved the mystery of the Trump-Russia affair. It shows that Donald Trump and his campaign did not collude with Russia but Russian intelligence used disinformation to create the impression that he did. It is hard for Americans to grasp that in the eerie world of Russian intelligence, it would be normal to discredit a U.S. leader by depicting him as a friend and to support his opponent by depicting her as an enemy. But this is the reality.
. The Trump-Russia affair began May 6, 2016, when George Papadopoulos, a Trump adviser, reportedly told Alexander Downer, the Australian high commissioner in London, that Moscow had compromising information on Hillary Clinton. Ten days earlier, Mr. Papadopoulos had been told by Joseph Mifsud, a Maltese professor who boasted of high-level
Russia contacts, that the “dirt” consisted of “thousands of emails.” Mr. Mifsud had returned from an April 18 meeting in Moscow of the Valdai Discussion Club, which the Mueller report said was “close to Russia’s foreign policy establishment.”
In fact, the Valdai Club, established in 2004, is Russia’s most important center of disinformation. The club gives Western journalists and academics the opportunity to question President Vladimir Putin and other officials in a supposedly informal setting. Participants, anxious not to offend their hosts, engage in self-censorship. Circulating in the crowd are persons who claim to share confidential information and explain what the Russian leadership is thinking—as at the USA and Canada Institute in Soviet times. The Valdai Club would be a key node in any Russian effort to cause chaos in
any Russian effort to cause chaos in the U.S. election.
Mr. Mifsud introduced Mr. Papadopoulos to Ivan Timofeev, a member of the Russian International Affairs Council, who told Mr. Papadopoulos in an April 25, 2016 email that he had shared plans for a meeting between the Trump campaign and the Russian government with Igor Ivanov, the council’s president and a former Russian foreign minister. In October 2016, Mr. Papadopoulos was fired from the campaign. But Russian intelligence had achieved its objective. The FBI had been informed of Mr. Papadopoulos’s remarks to Mr. Downer, and a counterintelligence investigation aimed at the Trump campaign was under way. Another attempt to compromise the Trump campaign was the June 9, 2016, Trump Tower meeting between Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort and a Russian group opposing the 2012 Magnitsky Act. The meeting was arranged by London music promoter Rob Goldstone, who wrote to the young Mr. Trump that the Russian “crown prosecutor” (a nonexistent title) wanted to shareincriminating information about Mrs. Clinton.
It’s remotely possible the Russian delegation—headed by Natalia Veselnitskaya, a lawyer with high-level Moscow connections—believed that they could gain the Trump campaign’s support. It’s likelier that the meeting was part of the effort to inflame U.S. politics by creating the impression that candidate Trump was a Russian pawn. Donald Trump Jr. was foolish to agree to the meeting. He did, however, have the sense to decline to discuss the Magnitsky Act. Mr. Kushner described the meeting as “a waste of time.” Yet it was a media sensation, and some of President Trump’s detractors accepted it as proof of collusion.Then there was the dossier that purportedly contained information on Mr. Trump himself. It was prepared by Christopher Steele, a former British intelligence agent, supposedly based on information from high-level Russian intelligence sources. It said Mr. Trump had been a Russian asset for at least five years and had been monitored in Moscow engaging in “perverted sexual acts.” When the dossier was released, Mr. Steele disappeared, claiming to fear for his life. In fact, the dossier was transparently phony. It claimed Mr. Putin had a “desire to return to Nineteenth Century ‘Great Power’ politics anchored upon countries’ interests rather than the ideals-based international order established after World War Two”—echoing hackneyed attempts by Russian spokesmen to divert attention from the regime’s connections to terrorism and organized crime.Its statement that Mr. Putin “hated and feared” Mrs. Clinton reflects the standard Kremlin practice of reducing policy differences to personality. Russia had attributed tensions between the U.S. and Russia to Mr. Putin and Barack Obama’s mutual dislike. The idea that Russian intelligence agents would share genuine intelligence as opposed to disinformation was in the realm of fantasy.The Trump-Russia affair did lasting damage to the U.S. For the first time, it became acceptable, even common, to accuse political opponents of treason. The media, Congress and the intelligence services have all undermined themselves by repeating wild and unsubstantiated charges provided for them by Russian intelligence. During the campaign, there was legitimate concern about the competence of Mr. Trump and those around him on the subject of Russia. Since taking office, however, he has approved the provision of defensive arms to Ukraine and coordinated diplomatic retaliation after the attempted murder in Britain of a former Russian intelligence agent, Sergei Skripal.In any case, the disinformation attack directed at Mr. Trump had nothing to do with his policies. The ultimate target was American society. Moscow’s tactics were striking in their deviousness and the result was the greatest triumph of disinformation in the history of Soviet and Russian active measures
.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/collusi...on-11556663662
His take only goes so far in that it does not address the emperor's regime's participation in the conspiracy .
I wouldn't put it past Vlad to set up the dufus, but why trust either of them? That's the sad part of this whole thing. No secret I think they both are a serious threat to the democracy, our way of life and the rule of law. Barr's testimony in yesterdays Senate hearing was the biggest obfuscation of facts ever seen by the public. Loopy Lindsey came away saying the whole Mueller thing is over leaving us with the Barr lies and no sign of calling Mueller to testify and clean up the record.
Russia’s goal was to take advantage of the existing political fissures and make them larger. The Democrats and media have fallen for it lock, stock and barrel and they are doing the Russians work. They cover for it by blaming Trump furtherQuote:
I wouldn't put it past Vlad to set up the dufus, but why trust either of them? That's the sad part of this whole thing. No secret I think they both are a serious threat to the democracy, our way of life and the rule of law.
I'm sure loopy Jerry Nadler or pathfinder Adam Schiff will invite Mueller to their committee .Quote:
Barr's testimony in yesterdays Senate hearing was the biggest obfuscation of facts ever seen by the public. Loopy Lindsey came away saying the whole Mueller thing is over leaving us with the Barr lies and no sign of calling Mueller to testify and clean up the record.
This week’s political setup of Barr is disreputable even by swamp standards. Democrats and the media are turning the AG into a villain for doing his duty and making the hard decisions .Barr’s testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee was preceded late Tuesday by a LEAK of a letter Mueller had sent the AG on March 27.Mueller griped that Barr’s 4 page explanation to Congress of the conclusions of the Mueller report “did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance” of the Mueller team’s “work and conclusions.” Only in Washington could this exercise in a$$ covering be considered credible .Democrats leapt on the letter as proof that Barr was covering for Trump. But Barr's letter was an attempt to provide Mueller’s conclusions to Congress and the public as quickly as possible, while he took the time to work through the entire document to make redactions required by law .
Mueller’s letter admits that Barr’s letter wasn’t inaccurate. Mueller conceded that in a phone call to Barr . Mueller's complaint, was that there was “public confusion about critical aspects” of his investigation. In other words ;Mueller stopped being the saint and he was taking the negative hits from the press for not coming to the preconceived conclusions they wanted from him .
For that you had that idiot Senator from Hawaii all but calling Barr a liar and demanding he resign .
Barr told the Senate that he offered Mueller the chance to review his letter before sending it to Congress, but Mueller declined. That was the proper time to offer suggestions or disagree. Instead Mueller ducked that responsibility and then griped in a later letter that was conveniently leaked on the eve of Barr’s testimony. I always knew Mueller was conducting the investigation like Inspector Clouseau .But I did not know he was a weasel and a worm.
Barr released the full Mueller report with minor redactions, as promised, and with the “context” intact.So the Mueller letter should have been a moot point and not the focal point of the Democrat questioning. Barr was under no obligation to give Congress anything let alone the full Mueller report . Barr also made nearly all of the redactions in the report available to senior Members of Congress to inspect .Only 3 Members have bothered; Lindsey Graham, Senate ,Mitch McConnell and ranking House Republican on Judiciary Doug Collins. Not one Democrat howling about Barr’s lack of transparency has examined the outrages they claim are hidden.
Then Barr acting as a REAL AG made the call about the obstruction issue .... something Loretta Lynch did NOT do when she allowed FBI Director James Comey make the call about Evita's illegal behavior .
The dufus should be blamed for a lot of the BS that's occurred and held accountable and the FACTS of his words and actions exposed and there is plenty to expose and hearing are the best way to do it and get the Mueller investigation results out to the public. Repubs can distract, disrupt, and lie all they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
As well they should as the beginning of many.Quote:
I'm sure loopy Jerry Nadler or pathfinder Adam Schiff will invite Mueller to their committee .
Barr is a wholly own sycophant defense attorney to the dufus and that has been exposed to the public for any who haven't figured it out. His 4 page summary was just the opportunity to get the dufus cover while they keep the facts from the public on what the Report actually says. Few will actually read it and Barr admitted he hasn't even considered any of the underlying evidence yet has cleared the dufus of any possible charges from the wrong doing and questionable behavior outlined in the report. Let the facts come out and sink in and even YOU may support impeachment proceedings to begin.Quote:
This week’s political setup of Barr is disreputable even by swamp standards. Democrats and the media are turning the AG into a villain for doing his duty and making the hard decisions .Barr’s testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee was preceded late Tuesday by a LEAK of a letter Mueller had sent the AG on March 27.Mueller griped that Barr’s 4 page explanation to Congress of the conclusions of the Mueller report “did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance” of the Mueller team’s “work and conclusions.” Only in Washington could this exercise in a$$ covering be considered credible .Democrats leapt on the letter as proof that Barr was covering for Trump. But Barr's letter was an attempt to provide Mueller’s conclusions to Congress and the public as quickly as possible, while he took the time to work through the entire document to make redactions required by law .
I have said I hope repubs rise to the challenge and build a solid case for it, despite the usual silly season shenanigans.
That won't last long and personally I seriously doubt Mueller will fully hang Barr and the dufus out to dry, not his style. He may give insights into his thinking but that cannot be the whole case to make in the public. Senator Hirono told it like it is as did the repubs and none of that 5 minute stuff yielded anything until Sen Harris got Barr to admit he didn't read the underlying evidence. That's a biggie in my book since he rendered an opinion that favored the dufus.Quote:
Mueller’s letter admits that Barr’s letter wasn’t inaccurate. Mueller conceded that in a phone call to Barr . Mueller's complaint, was that there was “public confusion about critical aspects” of his investigation. In other words ;Mueller stopped being the saint and he was taking the negative hits from the press for not coming to the preconceived conclusions they wanted from him .
For that you had that idiot Senator from Hawaii all but calling Barr a liar and demanding he resign .
I won't go that far as his reason was plausible, but darn he could have told DOJ to go to hell and stun the world. He chose the safe non political route and kicked the can down the road. Disappointing for sure but we do have the evidence to crack some repub and dufus heads with... if they figure it out.Quote:
Barr told the Senate that he offered Mueller the chance to review his letter before sending it to Congress, but Mueller declined. That was the proper time to offer suggestions or disagree. Instead Mueller ducked that responsibility and then griped in a later letter that was conveniently leaked on the eve of Barr’s testimony. I always knew Mueller was conducting the investigation like Inspector Clouseau .But I did not know he was a weasel and a worm.
Irrelevant, as he should have kept his mouth shut instead of tip the scales to the boss with out reading the thing himself. We both know Tom the fix was in as soon as repubs confirmed Barr.Quote:
Barr released the full Mueller report with minor redactions, as promised, and with the “context” intact.So the Mueller letter should have been a mute point and not the focal point of the Democrat questioning. Barr was under no obligation to give Congress anything let alone the full Mueller report . Barr also made nearly all of the redactions in the report available to senior Members of Congress to inspect .Only 3 Members have bothered; Lindsey Graham, Senate ,Mitch McConnell and ranking House Republican on Judiciary Doug Collins. Not one Democrat howling about Barr’s lack of transparency has examined the outrages they claim are hidden.
He acted as any good defense lawyer would for his client which is the dufus, and not the American people, the constitution, or the rule of law. That is what he was hired to do and we both know it.Quote:
Then Barr acting as a REAL AG made the call about the obstruction issue .... something Loretta Lynch did NOT do when she allowed FBI Director James Comey make the call about Evita's illegal behavior .
Tal you have spent years doing exactly that, so have others, and where has it got you? A dossier of crumbs and half facts and words that cannot be spoken. You lament the demise of your star chamber which accomplished only divisionQuote:
The dufus should be blamed for a lot of the BS that's occurred
Now Clete don't be so gloomy. This too shall pass. We have survived worse.
Yes there was Nixon, and Clinton, and Bush, and ObamaQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
You skipped Reagan, and Carter, but that's okay you obviously have grasped the point of our survivability. We don't always look good doing it though. Believe it or not it can get quite ugly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Yes, as we have observed
nope the entire 400 page Mueller dossier was released except for some minimal redactions to comply with the law. What facts do you think are missing ?Quote:
while they keep the facts from the public on what the Report actually says.
There was never before a coupe attempt by an outgoing administration. IMO the only thing worse that this country endured was the fracture that resulted in the Civil War .
Yes it was released to the public but who besides the wonks and political junkies has read it let alone knows what is in it? The only narrative have been from the dufus and his hired gun, Barr and that's No Collusion, No obstruction for more than a month. Congressional repubs are hollering Clinton and it's all over for the Mueller stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
No Tom, I don't think the facts are public yet, nor that repubs and especially the dufus want it to be.
maybe if they don't want to read the entirety of the Mueller dossier then perhaps they can read the 4 page letter from WH council Emmet Flood to Barr dated April 19 . It will enlighten them as to where the next phase of the investigation is going ;or at least one of the paths it will go .
https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/02/polit...arr/index.html
To summarize ; it correctly call the Mueller dossier a political document .Mueller produced “a prosecutorial curiosity - part ‘truth commission’ report and part law school exam paper”Quote:
What prosecutors are supposed to do is complete an investigation and then either ask the grand jury to return an indictment or decline to charge the case
“The Special Counsel and his staff failed in their duty to act as prosecutors and only as prosecutors”
It also calls out the leakers .It is important that the leakers are held accountable . The powers to collect foreign intelligence information are essential to the national defense . If the public believes the powers are there to be exploited for political purpose ,they are going to demand that Congress cut the powers back .This will weaken the ability to protect the country .I think we all can agree on that .Quote:
Government officials, with access to classified information derived from a counterintelligence investigation and from classified intelligence intercepts, engaged in a campaign of illegal leaks against the president,
The problem is the Special Council failed to act as persecutorsQuote:
The Special Counsel and his staff failed in their duty to act as prosecutors and only as prosecutors”
oh no ;he accomplished that beyond his wildest dreams . American hero and patriot Gen Michael Flynn had his life ,his fortune and his sacred honor ruined by Mueller's persecutorial excesses. Paul Manafort will rot in jail for his remaining days for tax issues that were brought to the government's attention more than a decade ago and considered of no concern . Rick Gates got taken down for similar concerns ;but he decided to cop a plea . Mueller also managed to indict a bunch of pajama boy Ruskies who will never see a day in court ;and Mueller knew that . But Mueller needed to put a Russian face on his work so he indicted them . He conducted fascist pre-dawn ,raids in swat like tactics with guns drawn on Manafort and Roger Stone when serving warrants would've been sufficient, Under his direction Michael Cohen's office and residence were raided in similar fashion .
Mueller as in the past conducted his investigation like a modern day cross between Inspector Javert and Inspector Clouseau . And just like the Anthrax case ;he focused on the wrong person(s) and made their existence a living hell.
Under Mueller’s management, the FBI launched an investigation lasting ten years focusing on another innocent flag waiving American patriot ;Dr Steven Hatfill .The FBI spied on, follow, and harass him non-stop for years. The Department of Justice also publicly made the accusation that Hatfill was a possible terrorist.Hatfill eventually successfully sued the government for its unlawful actions. He won almost $6 million dollars.
When Mueller eventually ran into a dead end and could no longer justify targeting Hatill ,he went after ANOTHER American patriot ;Bruce Ivins .Ivins like Hatill was a wmd researcher for the military .He volunteered to help the FBI investigate the antrax case .Ivins was never indicted, just given the Hatfill treatment. His house was raided, and he was threatened with a death sentence on the basis of innuendo and circumstantial evidence .
He committed suicide.
But dead men can't defend themselves . So Mueller stuck with the narrative that Ivins was the lone anthrax attacker .
The National Academy of Sciences, did an independent audit of the case ordered by Mueller .Their report stated that Mueller's conclusions and the science behind them were unfounded .A former FBI agent Richard Lambert sued the FBI charging that the FBI withheld exculpatory evidence to Ivens.Ivens died not knowing that Mueller had framed him.
Mueller didn’t go after al-Qaida for the anthrax letters because he couldn’t find a direct link. But then he targeted American citizens without showing a direct link.
For his deeds, he had the second longest tenure as FBI Director ever, and was roundly applauded by nearly everyone .
The cherry on the cake was he was able to be the potential point of the spear in an attempted coup against the constitutionally elected President .
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:25 AM. |