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Yep, you have to have someone to blame and who better than the other fellow, look BO and Dilliary were into dirty tricks, but they didn't win, because they forgot it wasn't about how many votes you got, but how many college votes you hadQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Carter Page ....according to the records ,the Feds became suspicious of him October 2016 because of a trip he took to Moscow .That was a month AFTER Page left the Trump campaign. He is not charged with anything ;but it was their suspicions of him from the info they got from the Steele dossier that started the FISA process.Quote:
Come on Tom, even you cannot believe that if so far 4 former flunkies are criminals that they acted without instruction from higher up?
Trump's team hired him because the inexperienced Trump was the improbable candidate and had no clue how to hire a foreign policy team. That task was left to Sam Clovis , a talk show host who had joined the Trump campaign .Page as with most of Trump's team was not vetted the way a professional staff would've been .All they knew was that Page had done business in Russia ;and part of the Trump plank was to improve relations with Russia where there was shared common interests (like fighting jihadistan) . What was Page's contribution ? Nada . Page testified that he NEVER met with Trump ;and he missed the only meeting Trump's campaign foreign policy team had.
Mueller has as far as I can tell ,no interest in pursuing Page either for charges or as a witness.
I'll deal with the 4 Mueller has wacked later .
Clete ;here is another angle . The FBI ,and everyone in the government was convinced that Evita was going to win. Lisa Page ,one of the FBI operatives elbow deep in this controversy texted to her loverPeter Strzok a key FBI player in this folly ;"One more thing: she [Hillary Clinton] might be our next president. The last thing you need us going in there loaded for bear. You think she’s going to remember or care that it was more doj than fbi?"
But with a Trump victory ,all their past covering up for Evita's crimes were going to be investigated by a new DOJ team. They texted about having an 'insurance policy' against a Trump win. What you are seeing here is that insurance policy being played out by rogue elements in the FBI . I say rogue ,but most of the players were and are still high ranking officials in the swamp.
You get the gist of it. You must also understand that repubs know to keep power they also have to fall in line behind The Dufus because his base, that he keeps fed very well with an abundance of red meat, is their base too, and riling Trump could cost them in the 2018 election, and The Dufus knows how to take over the air waves with whatever peeves or antics he engages in. The lame stream media may be going in circles with those antics most times, but truth be told, many are NOT so distracted, or not for long enough, and despite his barrage on the norms of the system the layers of his corruption and wrong doings will be peeled away.
LOL he thinks he can survive anything but he will be tested. He has been coasting along on Obama's coat tails, but soon he will be forced to govern, and address the REAL issues and all that bluster and loony hollering won't help him. 4 more days until the shutdown showdown is BACK!
It helps a lot when the right wing conspiracy machine chases it's own tail. You can bet The Dufus loves it when his followers are chasing waterfalls and butterflies, and VOTES!Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Papadopoulos... The new narrative that is being forwarded is that the Russian collusion probe began after Papadopoulos and an Aussie diplomat sat down for a bender. During the course of the conversation Papadopoulos told the Aussie that he knew the Russians had dirt on Evita and had Evita emails . He said he got his information from 'the Professor ' ;someone he met in Italy who supposedly had ties to Russian government connections .
When WikLeaks started disclosing some of the information from the unprotected DNC email system ,and Evita's illegal unsecured server ,the diplomat reported his conversation to the FBI. This happened some time in May 2016. Well if that is so ,then why did they wait until Feb of last year to interview him ? Why were the FISA requests about Carter Page when by all logic they could make a better case against Papadopoulos? After all ,hadn't Trump made an off the cuff comment that if the Russians had hacked Evita emails that he hoped they released them ?
If the basis of spying on the Trump campaign was based on the drunken musings of a low level Trump staffer then that makes the Dem abuse of the FISA system even more odious.
Papadopoulos thought more of himself and his position than reality and it was for that that he got nailed making false statements to the FBI .The idea that hewould be allowed close enough to Trump's inner circle to be a credible source and authority is absurd.
Okay okay, I give! You win! I'll just ask how Obama and Hillary got Trumps repub picks to go along with this conspiracy against Trump?
The charges against Manafort and Gates have nothing to do with the Trump campaign and predate the Trump candidacy.
I don't know . I could argue that Evita had a larger interest in a Russian relationship . What we know of it was quite lucrative . https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/u...m-company.htmlQuote:
Okay okay, I give! You win! I'll just ask how Obama and Hillary got Trumps repub picks to go along with this conspiracy against Trump?
Hannity says the charges against Flynn and Manafort should be dropped and Mueller fired. You think repubs will go along with that?
Are you going to bring back all the DEBUNKED Hillary conspiracy theories the loony right loves so much?
I don't listen to Hannity and I don't think it would be wise to fire Mueller or Rod Rosenstein. I would however demand that Rosenstein (who has been awol and has let Mueller run his investigation unsupervised )oversee the investigation .Don't forget that Rosenstein appointed Mueller disregarding the rules of appointing a special investigation. The rules clearly say that a crime has to be named BEFORE a special council is appointed . That was never done. A crime has still not been named . But now we hear that Mueller wants to question the President despite the absence of a crime ,or any indication that Trump has relevant information. Mueller is operating without any parameters and that arrangement has to end .
BTW what you call debunked conspiracy theory was reported by the Dem's bible . The NY Times .
But hey ,lets appoint a prosecutor to investigate Evita with no restrictions .I for one want to know the content of the 20 odd emails that the emperor sent to Evita directly to her through her server (remember ...the emperor lied about when he found out about Evita's server and those emails prove it . ) I think they must've discussed classified information on those emails .Oh we know the emperor says he did not 'collude ' with Evita's mishandling of classified emails .Maybe his emailing her was just "extremely careless" .
The prosecutor of that case should then also question Bubba . His tarmac meeting with AG Lynch had to be related right ? And of course he was at least a witness to the use of the server.
And of course Evita should be hauled in for questioning .....this time without her co conspirator attorney and her personal flunky by her side .
Maybe as the special prosecutor I'll bust into their houses in the dead of night with agents with guns drawn to search their homes for relevant information like Mueller did to Manafort . If Trump sic'ed a prosecutor on the Obots like that ,the Dems would be howling about a fascist government using extraordinary investigative powers not because he has established a case ;but because he can .
Before Mueller thinks about interrogating the President ,he 'd better have strong evidence that Trump committed a crime . and for an FYI 'collusion ' is only a crime when related to anti-trust laws .
Quis custodiet ipsos custodies? is the question .
It is all a fishing expedition
Mueller (A republican and experienced and RESPECTED FBI director) was appointed to investigate the crime of election interference by a foreign government, and if any American(s) helped them. With 4 of Trumps closest involved and charged with a crime you damn right he should be questioned.
No one is above the law and previous presidents have testified, so why can't he? If he I innocent no collusion or conspiracy then he shouldn't be worried with his lying cheating big mouth tidy whitey a$$! Or he can take the Nixon way out RESIGN, or keep firing people.
CONGRATS EAGLES!
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
And they did it against the best 4thQ QB ever!
Pardon Tal your bias is showing, Trump can be interviewed but if Mueller really has evidence he can supeona him but it really is a fishing expedition, just like the Hilliary emails. We know these people have a case to answer, the question is what is the case, who is the answer it, and that isn't obvious. A few little fish will take a fall, and Trump will pardon them. The whole thing looks like a deliberate plot to create the herring rouge, one chases esponage this way, another chases influence that way. Meanwhile we get a good laugh watching the circusQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
https://youtu.be/T7J0RSC1ICw
You are right Mueller can subpoena The Dufus to appear before him, and I have set out his options very clearly above, but you and Lou Dobbs can spout off all the right wing loony talking points you want, it changes nothing, and only your fellow loonies would even buy that crap. Talk about phishing? Hillary has been investigated for decades... they got nothing, but hollering, Obama has been hollered about for 8 solid years and counting... you got nothing.
Now it's the Dufus's turn in the barrel, and we will see if we phish any better than you wingers do. You may think me biased, no more than you are, or anyone else for that matter. I can't help but think that you and the rest of the far right talk some really crazy stuff sometimes. I understand it even though I don't agree most times, but the bigger picture is I feel that Trumps onslaught of the LAW is purely elf serving and he is hiding something and needs to be as thoroughly and vigorously scrutinized as those before him.
You and The Dufus are daft if you think you can holler and scream about others constantly, and nobody will holler back! Not going to happen. So yeah... I AM BIASED!
Russian interference in the election is a counter intelligence investigation. There is no crime and no charges have been made related to that . The 4 people Mueller charged were for process related issues or activities they were involved in before joining the Trump campaign.
By your own words Tom, Trump hired criminals, so WHY? That doesn't raise questions and concerns in your mind?
They are charged . There was no indication they did anything wrong when hired . My admission was that Trump was not an insider and there were few insiders willing to join his campaign .So he did not have a deep pool to pick from in the spring of 2016 .
Seems to me a simple background check would have revealed a lot about their past activities, or a GOOGLE search, and the fake news sure knew about their pasts, but given the exodus of so many then it would seem the pool of the best and brightest would be really shrinking, and I find it fascinating he denigrates his own appointees at justice, and the FBI and lauds the rank and file. Strange when FISA warrants starts at the FBI, facts investigated and verified at the rank and file field agents and sent up the chain to be reviewed and signed off on. Not knowing that basic FACT about the process is disturbing but more disturbing is he hasn't LEARNED it yet. You can forgive a stooge like Hannity, or even anybody for that matter, for not knowing fully about those FACTS of process, but NOT POTUS! Don't you agree?
TWO DAYS left until Shutdown Showdown.
How does possible misconduct by senior FBI officials intersect with the Mueller investigation?
I can't answer that since the only ones in DC saying it are a few repubs while most others say one has nothing to do with the other. Now there is a few who are calling for Rosenstein's firing by Trump and here we still have many repubs saying there is no cause for it, so you tell me. I guess if Trump declassifies the rest of the FISA documents we get to see that "possible" misconduct.
If there is NO misconduct now what?
I already said I think all the docs should be declassified and released. How else we going to expose the lies in Pathfinder Schiff's memo ?
What should we do with the lies in Nunes's memo? Or more accurately the lies about the memo? One big whopper is it clears The Dufus of collusion.
I'll tell you the lies that the Nunes memo exposed ..... there was not a shred of evidence that Carter Page was doing anything illegal. It is not illegal to have business with Russia. It is not even illegal to "collude" with Russia. There must be probable cause that a crime has been committed before a warrant can be granted, and there was none against Page or anyone else. (He had never been charged with anything.) The source of the Steele dossier was never mentioned to the judge when they sought the original warrant, even though the FBI knew that it was wholly funded by the DNC and the Clinton campaign. (Deputy Asst AG Bruce Ohr's wife happened to work at Fusion GPS, which hired Steele.) They never sought to verify any of the information in the dossier, and when they concluded that the dossier was virtually entirely fiction they went back to the judge THREE ADDITIONAL TIMES to get the warrant renewed, never once disclosing that the source had been discredited. Andrew McCabe, whose wife was a Va State Senate candidate who had received substantial funding from Clinton bagman Terry McCauliffe and the Va Democratic Party testified before the Intelligence Committee that without the Fusion GPS/Steele Dossier, there would have been no basis for any kind of FISA warrant whatsoever). And to boot, they offered a Michael Isikoff article as supporting evidence for the warrant, EVEN THOUGH ISIKOFF'S SOURCE WAS CHRISTOPHER STEELE! AND THE FBI KNEW THIS AND DIDN'T MENTION IT TO THE JUDGE!!!
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alimwatkins...nmd#.fpZMxwQpgQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Maybe its not illegal, and maybe he will never be charged, but you darn well should make sure there is nothing there before you just assume there is nothing to see here.
Lets see now, two candidates under investigation, one publicly, one NOT. One candidate looking for dirt on an opponent knew the dirt was stolen (HACKED) by a foreign power, and used it, the other paid for dirt the repubs found already. So that wholly funded crap doesn't wash!Quote:
The source of the Steele dossier was never mentioned to the judge when they sought the original warrant, even though the FBI knew that it was wholly funded by the DNC and the Clinton campaign. (Deputy Asst AG Bruce Ohr's wife happened to work at Fusion GPS, which hired Steele.) They never sought to verify any of the information in the dossier, and even after they fired Page and concluded that the dossier was virtually entirely fiction they went back to the judge THREE ADDITIONAL TIMES to get the warrant renewed, never once disclosing that the source had been discredited. Andrew McCabe, whose wife was a Va State Senate candidate who had received substantial funding from Clinton bagman Terry McCauliffe and the Va Democratic Party testified before the Intelligence Committee that without the Fusion GPS/Steele Dossier, there would have been no basis for any kind of FISA warrant whatsoever). And to boot, they offered a Michael Isikoff article as supporting evidence for the warrant, EVEN THOUGH ISIKOFF'S SOURCE WAS CHRISTOPHER STEELE! AND THE FBI KNEW THIS AND DIDN'T MENTION IT TO THE JUDGE!!!
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/u...ul-singer.html
As for verifying the dossier Tom, of course they did,
Comey hinted that Trump-Russia dossier will be verified - Business Insider
Do you really think they went back three times to renew the warrant without enough supporting evidence to get it reissued? That is a stretch, but I guess we will find that out soon enough, as well as what McCabe really said. As to McCabe's wife, TOTALLY IRRELEVANT, but I guess if you are looking for crap to stick you throw everything you can against the wall.
I think it's best to see what comes out next since The Dufus has FIVE days to release more of this case. I also think you have to separate the POLITICAL machinations from the LEGAL process to keep things straight so sorry if I don't get excited about the way the dubious at best happenings of Page will help The Dufus at all at this point. Nor should we be distracted by this side show as I see no good coming from trying to discredit law enforcement. It's more likely in my opinion that Nunes is working for Trump and not the American people.
The Schiff memo will be released . comedy relief .
October of 2016. Second Comey FISA request relying on the Steele Dossier – FISA Warrant Issued to spy on Carter Page. Andrew McCabe makes it clear that without the dossier, there would have been no FISA warrant.Quote:
As for verifying the dossier Tom, of course they did,
Comey hinted that Trump-Russia dossier will be verified - Business Insider
The dossier has never been verified – to this day. Comey told Trump in January of 2017 that the dossier was “unverified.”
Yet, Comey represented to the FISA Court that the dossier was credible – in part, by citing a Yahoo news story on the matter. However, Comey knew that that story was planted by the dossier author Christopher Steele. In other words, it was not an independent verification of the dossier.
All in all, Comey swore under oath that the Court should consider the dossier credible evidence so that the FBI could spy on Carter Page – even though Page had already left the campaign. Given that it was known that Page already left the campaign, it could well be that Carter Page was the fall guy excuse to begin domestic spying on others.
Without question, Comey misled the FISA Court by submitting and vouching for the unverified dossier and pushing the Yahoo News story. Those were not the only questionable acts, misrepresentations nor omissions of Comey.
I gotcha Tom. You're on record as saying the dossier is ALL they got on Page and used it 3 times to get a warrant to surveille him through the FISA court. Hmm, maybe that was the whole intent of this Nunes gyrations... to see what they had on Trumps buddy Page, and discredit the FBI and Justice Dept. for Trump's own benefit.
We still have to wait for the Dem memo to be released, or if there is any connection between the White house, and Nunes. There is enough other stuff to deal with while we wait for Dufus to decide though, like another shutdown, and a debt ceiling issue, AND the price increases I predicted.
your wasting your time with the Schiff memo . You want to read the Nadler memo . Nadler would be the one to run the impeachment proceedings if the Dems gain the majority . It is weak as hell and blatantly political ( Dear Democrat colleagues.... leaked to NBC news ) . But it is a fun read .http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/TODAY/z_...nes%20Memo.pdf
Yeah that was fun, but this may be funner... 8)
https://www.newsmax.com/politics/don...r=010135czvvaj
Here is the rather heavily redacted memo from Senate Judiciary Commitee Chair Senators Grassley and Graham . The gist of it is a criminal referral for Christopher Steele . https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo...0Referral).pdf
Turns out the Steele was lying and misleading just about everyone he dealt with ;including the FBI and Brit Intel. Not only that ;he was feeding these lies to Yahoo news .They published ,and then the Yahoo news feed was used as independent confirmation of the dossier. It gets even better ...... Steele did not even do his own digging . Much of the Steele dossier was information he received from Sid Blumenthal ,aka the Evita campaign.
(you remember him from the days of inventing the birther controversy that so angered the emperor that he told Evita he could not be hired by her State Dept ....not that that stopped her . )
Trump is the one they should arrest for lying, just like everybody else associated with him. EEEK! I sound like Smoothy now! 8(
Didn't they try to arrest Ellsberg too? Oh wait, he WAS arrested and charged and we know how that worked out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg
Ellsberg stole top secret documents. Back then libs like Katherine Graham and Ben Bradlee were willing to go to jail to release top secret documents about government abuse of power . Now the Dems argue that such release harm national security . They went to all types of extreme contortions trying to prevent Nunes from releasing his summary .They claimed he was putting national security at risk , Sound familiar ? The same arguments Nixon used.
They aren't saying that now since repubs released their memo... devoid of anything but BS! But if the Dufus allows it, then it will look like that Grassley letter, REDACTED. The thing is who will redact what since I expect The Dufus to try his level best to cherry pick what FACTS get released. EX Gen, Kelly hinted as much.
No doubt Mueller is watching with keen interest.
The Grassley memo is clearly redacted because it makes foundation for a criminal referral . The only reason the Dems don't want the FISA warranted released is because it exposes how baseless they were .
The dems wanted their version released with the repubs piece of crap. They sided with the DOJ, and FBI in not releasing any of these memos from the start. All that changed when Nunes flimsy memo with no underlying FACTS was made public. What a clown show that was with plenty of hype he didn't deliver on.
Repubs will be exposed, yet again, for the incompetent clowns they are.
.
Remember when the Dems mocked Romney for calling Russia our number one geopolitical threat ? Remember when the Dems thought that domestic spying was an abuse ? Remember when it was the left that questioned the motives of the deep state ? I thought that the Bush era created a built in distrust for the national security apparatus . Remember there was a time when prominent Dems news moguls like Katherine Graham and Ben Bradley were willing to go to jail to release government secrets ? How benevolent do you think American power and institutions are ? Don't you think it strange that they have gone all out to completely destroy the first outsider elected to the Presidency since perhaps Andrew Jackson or Abe Lincoln. (no I am certainly not comparing Trump to Lincoln except for the fact that his election made the establishment's head explode ) . And yes the libs in their effort to take down Trump have become unhinged if they believe this pile of cow excrement conspiracy theory . Someone show me how exactly the Russians made any significant change in the outcome . Even if I were to concede that the Russians attempted to interfere in the elections tell me how they influenced them . No one changed their votes because the DNC and Evita did not properly secure their emails . No one has proven that any voting machine was "hacked:" . Even if the Russians attempted it (and they probably did ) ,was it any worse then our move to get Yeltsen elected
http://content.time.com/time/covers/...960715,00.html
,or the emperor's attempts to unseat Netanyahu ,
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.e07fe32f4f3a
or our proven meddling in the Ukraine election .....or the many other elections we've "hacked " throughout the years ?http://www.vocativ.com/388500/electi...ies/index.html
Don't conflate politicians trying to get elected with actual governing policy Tom. Yes many nations have moved up the chain in cyber capabilities and turned our tactics against us. I fully acknowledge our efforts to topple authoritarian regimes has always been at play, going back to the world wars, probably better than raising Armies, and committing blood and treasure.
What we should be aware of is that it can and does happen here a well and The Dufus has failed to even acknowledge it, and there is AMPLE evidence that Russia is in deeper in very sophisticated ways into our institutions than most know and Dufus has done nothing about it.
I for one don't think this is a coincidence, or just incompetence, but intentionally turning a blind eye to the threat to our nation. As it stands you or anybody else doesn't know the total effects of the Russian meddling, or what they intend to do AGAIN, as said by our own agencies that are tasked with finding out the FACTS, except the Commander and Chief!
Yes Tom we weaponized the cyber tools, and others followed, but to stand idly by while they turn those weapons on us now is unacceptable.
well said Joe McCarthy . By all means investigate Russian meddling .It would be money much better spent than this Evita campaign and the emperor's initiated witch hunt against Trump.Quote:
there is AMPLE evidence that Russia is in deeper in very sophisticated ways into our institutions than most know
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...steele-dossier
So you really believe that the Steele Dossier is all they have on Page? On Trump? Just because a few repubs are rallying around The Dufus and seemingly Page, we still have no evidence the FISA judges were derelict in their own due diligence, nor the investigators were partisan in theirs.
Just a lot of right wing hollering points, so be cool, and wait, and enjoy the scandals.
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