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Quote:
Originally Posted by misspurple77
Any person NOT willing to take up arms to defend their home country... deserves to be taken out and shot by those running it. Sorry.. I have ZERO respect for anyone unwilling to do that. And I don't want them living near me either. They are cowards. Plain and simple.
Considering that there were only about 17 million people in America (North and South) in 1492, and that it was illness , not war that killed an estimated 90 percent of them. I think that there are facts that were learned, that are not true.
In fact, if one considered mixed blood, up to 1/4, there are actually more native american people today, than there was in 1492 when that big "white invasion" happened.
There were many killed of course, and land taken, but the death toll of the entire American national people, over 300 years, would not have been near the deaths of China, or Russia, or Germany.
Smoothy, there are many rumours flying but where did you hear that people in Germany are being evicted in favour of refugees? My son lives in Germany and only reports that in his small town on the German/Dutch border there are more then usual people waundering about. He will be here in two weeks, so I will hear more about this I am sure.
Merkel knows what she is doing. Germany is one of the best run countries in the EU?
I don't believe it either, but since it is impossible to prove that something doesn't happen, I just pointed out that they are lying that this happens in The Netherlands, while it doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by tickle
But if it would happen, it would be all over the news of course. Germany is a democracy, you can't just evict people out of their homes!
That's what I learned in school, but unfortunately, it was deliberate, babies were smacked against rocks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
Just some examples:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act
History News Network | Were American Indians the Victims of Genocide?
Atrocities Against Native Americans - United to End Genocide
Well, your ancestors left their home countries in Europe, instead of taking up arms to improve their lifes there, so according to your own logic, they deserve to be shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
They are not cowards, you are just a victim blamer, because you are too greedy to help your fellow human beings.
And you still haven't answered Wondergirl's question, which only proves that you just can't reason your way out of this.
So I am done with responding to you, because there is just no use to respond to so much willfull ignorance.
I have moved this to the discussion board area, where there is more "freedom" of comments.
I will say that it is amusing, that the person who seems so open to one people, is not open to accept that many people do not agree with them.
That an idea of racist is not just against the refugees, but if someone things ill of another race, (perhaps white Europeans)
You totally misunderstand me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
I have no problems with white European or any white people based on their race. All that I am trying to say is that no race is better than another, because every single human being living on this earth is a descendant of savage, barbaric ancestors, including me. Smoothy wants to think that he is better than Syrian people, but no one is better than anyone else.
He is the one that started calling the Dutch a laughing stock, while he might be part Dutch himself, that is all that I was trying to achieve: don't look down upon other people, when you yourself are living in a country that is stolen from the native Americans.
Soaring rhetoric and blame/name calling often begets the same thing back. Human nature and a fact during such discussions. The true test of racism comes from the power exercised over another not some screaming match over who is the master race.
That we have a war being fought only highlights the divisions of hate as Assad staves off his Arab spring thanks to Vlad.
I am really not trying to blame anyone, I am only trying to explain that the Syrians are innocent victims and not terrorists, like Smoothy claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
But you are right. My approach clearly isn't working, people misunderstand me for being racist. So how else can I stop people from believing and spreading lies like all Muslims are terrorists? From saying that women in the UK and France are being beheaded for not wearing burqa's, that there is Sharia there, when all of that just simply isn't true?
There were rumours that there was a Sharia area in a neighbourhood here in The Hague, it also turned out to be false.
Tickle... I read it in one of my news sources in the last several weeks. Its NOT been widely covered... and in fact is being ignored because its not politically correct. And it effects renters significantly more than property owners. If you remember European renters tend to stay put sometimes for decades and don't move around frequently.Quote:
Originally Posted by tickle
As far as Germany being the Best run country in Europe... I won't disagree, I think the Average Boy Scout troop could do better than most of the other countries there countries do. Though it still does a lot that's wrong. And The European News agencies are even more biased and corrupt than our own are (And the BBC is one of the worst)... based on thousands of different points I've seen in reality vs. what they chose to tell the public over 30+ years of having access to them.
You really believe everything you hear on the news? Then you really are seriously misguided and misinformed then. Because most of what you think you know is as wrong as those numbers you were throwing around and arguing were FACT about 40 Million Russians killed being only 40% of American Indians killed. Which YOUR wildly inaccurate and unprovable claim would be that 100 million Indians were Killed. When there were not even a fraction of that in TOTAL EVER inhabiting the Entire USA region until well into the 1900's.Quote:
Originally Posted by misspurple77
And you are wrong about a lot of your other claims as well.
And you still won't rant and rave about the Dutch cooperating with the Nazi's in nearly wiping out the ENTIRE population of Jews in Europe...along with the French, the Belgians, Spanish, Portuguese, and every other country with the exception of the UK.
Those number are real....those occurred during the actual lifespans of people still alive today...some of whom survived those camps. Also...in your indignance... you also failed to acknowledge the slavery YOUR ancestors participated in. Slavery was alive and well in the American Continent eons before the first European ever set foot here. And some of the worst were in YOUR ancestors part of the world even if SPANISH isn't a major part of your ancestry.
Regardig this part of your text Smoothy, I already wrote before you made that remark:Quote:
Also Unless you are a full blooded descendant of native Americans... then your descendants were Spanish and responsible for killing off MOST of the Inca and Aztec empire... through murder, enslavement or just through disease.
So you don't read what I write and on top of that, you are clearly not familiar with the history of Suriname. This is only more evidence, that trying to have an honest discussion with you is just a waste of my time.Quote:
I am half Surinamese Indian, a quarter Jewish, indigenous Surinamese, African and Chinese.
What the Dutch did in colonial era's wasn't pretty either. First they enslaved my indigenous great-great-grandmother, but when they realised that the indigeous people weren't strong enough to work like cattle on the plantations (sugar, cotton, cocoa, coffee etc), they obducted my African ancestors from Africa, shipped them all the way to Curaçao and from there to Suriname to work on the plantations. When slavery was abolished, the colonisers were still too lazy and weak to do hard labour themselves, so then they went to India and recruited my mothers family to do the heavy work at the plantations.
But again for the record: no one's descendance is of any relevance, because we all descend from ancestors that committed atrocities.
I never said that. But if something like that would happen, Geert Wilders would have made a big deal of it and that would have made the news.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Why do keep insisting on trying to put me down, instead of answering Wondergirls question?
All that you are achieving like this, is that you confirm that you can't be reasoned with.
Based on your demonstrated lack of knowledge in history particularly American history... and the wild numbers you throw around as fact... sorry... My knowledge of history far exceeds your own. Until you start quoting Really facts instead of making up your own as you go... YOU are the one here not participating in a honest Discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by misspurple77
Facts are facts... they do not change with the political winds... Liberals believe facts are relative and can change... when they aren't and don't.
And you STILL ignore the fact your ancestors enslaved others long before the Dutch or any Europeans set foot here. SO don't cry indignance when your own people did the same thing eons longer.
Have you even considered the fact that YOUR viewpoints are the ones that are wrong and need consideration?
And you never answered another question....how old are you? Your arguments and writing style indicate high school age to early 20's at most....
If you lived in Syria, which of all those groups fighting in that country would you fight for?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
And bombs are falling all over, people are being butchered, so how would you protect your family?
OMG.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Yes some of the Dutch corroborated with the Germans, but there was also a resistance. Those were not my ancestors though, because I don't have Dutch ancestors, I already told you my ancestry twice now. My family didn't move to The Netherlands until the 1960's and 1970's.
Yes, slavery was a worldwide phenomenon. I don't know my family history as far back to know if they ever owned slaves, but there is a huge possibility that they did.
Like I said earlier, I don't disagree with you on those historical facts. But to me those historical facts only prove that none of us has the right to pretend that we are from a better race than the Syrians are nowadays.
I can't even count how often I already said this on this thread. So why are you trying to discredit me with something that I don't even contest? I am nothing better than you and nothing better than a Syrian refugee. You are the only one here that is trying to blame the refugees and not wanting to help them, because you feel like you are better than them.
I say, we are all equal and we should all help each other.
Still ignoring facts... YOUR ancestors held slaves... ALL native American tribes (North, Central and South participated in this) and you claiming otherwise shows how you are selectively ignoring facts, it was an accepted part of their culture. And you still refuse to accept the fact that someone other than you is right about anything. Face it.. accept it, embrace it.Quote:
Originally Posted by misspurple77
Seriously... how old are you?
People are not equal... never were never will be.
Some people are just dumb as stumps and have no valuable skills what so ever... others are highly intelligent and good at everything they try... the rest fall somewhere in between. That is anything but equal.
Some are not worth as much as others... and nobody is entitled to anything more than they are able to earn themselves.
Everyone being equal in all things (and "entitled" to equal an share in things) is a socialist and a liberal concept. And no everyone isn't entitled to help... particularly if they are unwilling to help themselves first. Particularly if they created the mess they find themselves in.
Not when it costs someone elses money...and someone elses blood, and the person demanding help won't risk either of their own.
Liberals tend to blame Americans...and specifically Southern Americans for Slavery....ignoring everything else...including world history. And fail to ignore the Slavers who actually captured the slaves and took them to the Coast were also blacks...who then sold them to European slavers who then sold then to American Plantation owners....giving all the OTHER participants a free pass. And also ignoring that American Indians practiced the same things. Some far more brutal than others.
And the Feudal system in Europe was far more brutal because at least slaves had value and were treated better as a result. Better is a relative thing....but important for perspective vs serfs who had no value to the royalty individually.
I am done. I am only writing this, so that you know that I won't be responding anymore to all the nonsense that you write and to all the twisting of my words that you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Goodbye.
Or poor thing... Your "facts" exist only in your head... You are in High school, aren't you? Since all you have done is regurgitate something some teacher told you... which has proven to be grossly inaccurate. So you pick up your ball and go home rather than admit you were mistake or wrong about everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by misspurple77
Its time you learn your world view as a teenager is grossly wrong...and most things you believe as a teenager (into your early 20's) is also grossly inaccurate and based on ideology instead or reality. And that is common among the very young....they don't have enough life experience yet to see what reality is like....and when they actually have to start paying for all these free things they used to demand...instead of just receive them...ten reality sinks in...why are they working hard to give it to someone else who isn't or hasn't paid their dues yet.
Rant all you want...it doesn't change the reality of the world around you... and NOT seeing things for how they are in todays world can get you killed. That illegal immigrant you invited in your home might cut your throat in your sleep and take everything you own. THAT is reality....Most are not nice people...just like the fact that MILLIONS of Muslims support Terrorism and terrorist ideology. An intelligent person doesn't ignore that just because a handful are actually nice.
No, smoothy, she hasn't been a teen for many years. Please answer my questions as to what you would do and which group you would fight for if you lived in Syria. And yes, that country is a mess.
Well she certainly writes and acts like someone in their late teens to early 20's who has not been out in the real world for long if ever. Debating style is VERY high school like. Based on Ideology instead of fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
And who would I support if I was in Syria? I would be on Assad's side... no he isn't a nice person... but then neither is Obama. At least Assad kept the less desirable crowd under control. And because he isn't a Muslim Fanatic like most of the opposition.
I have no use for Muslim fanatics....ever, anywhere. All they do is cause trouble and oppress anyone NOT like them anywhere they are.
I always thought you would make a great dictator, so it's no wonder you would take the side of a brutal dictator and Vlad the Conqueror.Quote:
I would be on Assad's side.
The lesser of evils... choices we as adults frequently have to make. And sometimes the dictator is the better choice than the opposition. Look at Libya, Egypt... not to mention Syria. Your choices aren't always Good vs. Evil. But often who is the least evil.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Is there more the US could do to resolve the Syrian problem?
That point has long past... Obama and his stooges decided to back the Muslim Brotherhood ergo... ISIS... vs the right group in the beginning and made it worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
We saw what happened in Libya and Egypt. Anyone who didn't see this mess coming a mile away is blind.
I say we arm everyone over there, (small arms only, nothing big) let them kill each other... then go in and kill whomever wins if they aren't what we consider "good people".
People in that part of the world are not civilized... nor do they grasp the concept of Democracy. And none of them can be trusted. Few of them have progressed in mindset in over 1,400 years.
The US could negotiate between the Turkish and the Peshmerga and with both armies fight as an allied force against Assad and all the terrorists. Maybe other armies are willing to join, like Jordan, Israel, Egypt, they are all fighting against the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda and IS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Except they don't like each other and don't really share enough common interest...(which is a HUGE thing) and who is going to pay for it? Assad as bad as he might have been... is still far better than all the alternatives in that area. THe last thing the world needs is another Muslim theocracy oppressing everyone and committing genocide against all non-Muslims.
And what I mean is..a common enemy isn't usually enough reason for people to work together that don't like each other....
Logistics and Command are two HUGE aspects besides the costs incurred with Military actions.
So smoothy I would think your solution has been tried anyone who wanted to fight over there has been armed, obviously it isn't important enough for millions so maybe Assard is right he has been fighting terrorists, and the arab spring never happened. To me it all comes down to the dirty dealings the US has been involved in over a long time, this is George Bush's legacy and it will be Obama's because when it comes down to it it is about projecting power something Putin understands
George Bush had NOTHING to do with the Arab Spring don't put the blame on him... that was all Obama's Doing... on Obamas watch. HE sided with the Muslim brotherhood despite everyone's advice and objections.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
And its more like an Arab winter because its been one disaster after another. And even then.. with all the degenerates and malcontents and the lunatic radicals in that armpit of the world... its not even all Obama's fault. ( Hate to find myself defending HIM of all people)
Libya, Egypt and Syria were all better off under dictators....none of them really deserved any better...and their behavior ( the people) in recent years proves it. It took brutal dictators to keep them from trying to kill each other. As proven by what happened when that balance was disturbed or the Dictators removed....they resort to trying to kill each other like the animals they are.
Like the American during the Civil War?
Were those the northern animals, or the southern animals, Tal? Both sides handed out some brutal treatment. Look, smoothy, is right! Those arabs in Syria, Iraq and Libya are little more than animals, settling their age old grieviences and Egypt isn't much better. While these characters fight amonst themselves no one has to worry about Israel which gets on with subjecting the palestinians who are tarred with the same brush. I expect that if you subscribe to a medieval philosophy, your thinking and actions will be medieval. We want to end this? End Islam and its rabid philosopy of world domination. The Arabs know nothing but allegiance to a strong leader usually one with the backing of religion, democracy is only an idea they have heard of, but they don't understand it. This is why they run into the streets shouting when ever anything happens
And how do you end Islam?
Let us be honest here most of us are not born racist, we become racist, or intolerant of certain groups, because of the behaviour we observe and are subjected to.
I agree that migrants should assimulate, if there is any country where the multiracial experiment has failed it is mine. What have we got out of it, large number of unwanted migrants calling themselves refugees. Some are refugees from war zones but many are economic migrants, particularly the young men who are sent and financed by their families. Whole surburbs have been turned into ghettos and we have asian crime gangs, home invasions, gun violence, drugs. We only have to read the court lists or newspaper reports to see the ethnicity of most of the offenders. There aren't too many Smith's or Jones' among them. We even have New Zealand complaining we are sending their criminals back.
Now I understand that to most of the world this is paradise, rarely known war on its soil, good climate, good welfare and medical system, modern housing, modern transport, religious tolerance, stable government, etc. Is it too much to ask that a new comer might learn to speak english? Or abide by our laws such as the age of consent? But what do we get? Welfare cheats, criminals
All those things you have mentioned are conditions already found in most societies already. It's a bit much though to expect migrants (You say refugees but we all know you mean foreigners) to assimilate instantly to the new climate they find themselves in, fraught with prejudice and demands from the new people who they encounter.
You have to expect they need help to acclimate. Directing them to a ghetto that's already poor and (Not to mention the subhuman condition of "processing centers") destitute and dependent on your goodwill is the choice of the ruling class policy makers.
You know your elected representatives.
Other ethnic groups managed to assimilate under those conditions... but then... maybe they were just more evolved.
Of course.. there is this novel concept... they stay in the general region they are from and NOT think they are entitled to go anyplace they want halfway around the world. There are a LOT of countries they had to pass through before getting to Europe. They should stay in one of them...
And no they aren't refugees... they are economic opportunists...
My German ancestors came to this country to get away from the German revolutions of 1848-49 and for economic reasons. They bought land (coincidentally, a mile or two from where I live now), farmed, and eventually learned English. Were they refugees? immigrants? economic opportunists?
THey didn't have Islamic Terrorists bend on killing non-muslims (outside of the area they infested anyway) in the 1800's. There also wasn't welfare in the 1800's you worked or you starved to death,
Well, if their lifes were in danger because of the revolutions they were refugees. They were also immigrants: every refugee is also an immigrant, but not every immigrant is a refugee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Everybody in the US, except for the slaves and the native Americans, is either an immigrant or a descendant of immigrants.
Really... Why JUST America... how about The Caribbean, South America, and Central America too.. not to mention Canada, and Austailian etc... Everyone in THOSE places NOT 100% native Indian were Immigrants there too... and that's MOST of the populations in those places.
Same with Blacks anywhere outside of Africa... Asians anywhere outside of Asia... Or is this really just about bashing the USA....who pays for almost everything these days? Perfect reason to kick the UN out of the USA and stop funding ANYTHING outside the USA.
Let the rest of the world step up for once and pay their fair share.
If the slaves weren't immigrants, what would they be called?
And most of the Native Americans came from somewhere else, so they were refugees or immigrants.
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