That's the problem Oliver, you have an education system that turns out humogenised graduates, no one is allow to be smarter than anyone else and any head that pops up gets slapped with a PHD and winds up teaching. The smart ones don't go into politics and so you get the hacks who are there for privilege and position.

200 years ago men couldn't afford to spend their lives in politics, the distances were too great and there was money to be made. They devised a system where nothing radical could get done. Your system is 200 years old and in that 200 years the volume of legislation is immense and every bill has to be tome because some vested interest wants to staple something to it. You could stop thnt and make every provision face debate, then the politicians would have to work for a living. I notice you have stopped debating the ACA, maybe someone actually got around to reading it.

You want to up the pay, your President gets paid $400000 and found, a corporate president gets paid many times that often with a share of the business. You pays peanuts you gets monkeys. How high can you go for someone who has to sign what someoneelse thinks up when some of the best minds only make a fraction of that. The system is upside down. Yes term limits would be a great start, you limit the term of the President why not every other political appointment right down to local. Lots of shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. No tenure in Universities another good idea. Here's an idea. Limits on campaign funding so a position can't be bought. But all of this is pie in the sky because no one wants the system to change

We all want the system to change. We just file it in the "it's too hard" pile and do nothing. Sad. As far as the Affordable Care Act if this Government runs it, it's anything but affordable. The solution to all of these issues can't be raising taxes and growing the size of the Federal Government. The President had a great idea in every high school graduate should get community college paid for. Just show me how it's done without raising taxes. Big Government kills growth. You made comments earlier how incentives don't work and the wealthy don't spend. I respectfully disagree.

If a rich guy can buy a politician to grease the wheels of his profits then he can darn well afford to contribute to roads, bridges, and schools that his workers need, all of which creates jobs for ordinary people to make money and buy stuff.

I find it fascinating those that defend the big money banks, and their rich people friends, who crashed the global economy, displaced MILLIONS, destroyed the lives of hard working people, kept us at war defending foreign interests of rich guys, and then claim how hard they worked to earn what they got but don't have to support the needs of the HARD working people who helped them get it.

Rich guys holler about taxes, regulations, and government, and turn around and buy government officials to write the rules they like and cut taxes, and the facts of history says the last 10 years they have help build NOTHING, create nothing, but suck all the cash from everyone's pockets. Still they holler!

Naw, can't listen to hungry kids, but a rich guy gets all your time and attention... and MONEY, while you barely raise a peep about the extra chapstick you buy to kiss their rich butts! Respect is one thing but do you have to slob all over them too?

You want answers and solutions to problems yet it's right in front of our face... make the rich guys work as hard as the rest of us who are trying to survive, as hard as they SAY they work, and not settle for the lip service.

If you think you can teach a guy to fish, and send him to a pond of piss with no fish in it, and expect him to be grateful, then you better think again. Or maybe that's the problem, Americans just ain't thinking anymore.

Hard to argue with class warfare babble .

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who crashed the global economy

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no you know better . The government forced them to make home loans to folks that could not afford them . That's the root cause of the financial collapse. Even liberal Rolling Stone Magazine got that one right.

Now that's babble, since no one forced the bank to make loans they knew people couldn't afford, or forced them to forge ownership documents either.

Big Banks Fined Mega-Billions; CEOs Remain Untouched, Above the Law | NationofChange

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Initially the Fed's purchase of these securities was $85 billion per month, a staggering amount, and then in the spring of 2014 it was reduced to $45 billion. What a totally misguided plan that was; it has been called “one of the greatest giveaways” of taxpayer money in U.S history. Now after 5 years and $4 trillion dollars pumped into the banking industry we find that the banks largely sat on the funds instead of initiating the loans as was the intention.
Banks used the funds to nearly triple their stock prices through issuing larger dividends and stock buy-backs. And so the banks made out like bandits and the American people have been the big losers - again. You can get an idea of just how big a failure this Quantitative Easing program has become from this article by a former Federal Reserve executive who managed the program when it was instituted and then walked away after being thoroughly disillusioned by the entirely disingenuous process.

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Tell me how hard rich guys work again Tom.

He can't Tal, he has swallowed the bait hook line and sinker, he truly believes his employer will put his interest first, after all he is a business man. We haven't heard much about the US debt how large is it now? How many times GDP does it represent? The analogy between Greece and the US is not lost on some of us, keep going down the path you are going, it is the path to pain and austerity

Relax Clete, the US can manipulate currency better than any country in the known world. A lesson Greece has yet to learn.

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no one forced the bank to make loans they knew people couldn't afford

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I'll correct myself ... it was the even more progressive 'Village Voice ' that first exposed the REAL reason. Keep in mind that this was written at the height of the melt down when il Duce Cuomo was NY Att General and not our infamous Governor with Federal prosecutors breathing down his neck.

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There are as many starting points for the mortgage meltdown as there are fears about how far it has yet to go, but one decisive point of departure is the final years of the Clinton administration, when a kid from Queens without any real banking or real-estate experience was the only man in Washington with the power to regulate the giants of home finance, the Federal National Mortgage Association (FNMA) and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (FHLMC), better known as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.Andrew Cuomo, the youngest Housing and Urban Development secretary in history, made a series of decisions between 1997 and 2001 that gave birth to the country's current crisis.

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Andrew Cuomo and Fannie and Freddie | Village Voice

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He turned the Federal Housing Administration mortgage program into a sweetheart lender with sky-high loan ceilings and no money down, and he legalized what a federal judge has branded "kickbacks" to brokers that have fueled the sale of overpriced and unsupportable loans.

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According to the article Cuomo used heavy handed methods to brow beat lenders into making loans for the unqualified . He did more to set these forces of unregulated expansion in motion than any other secretary and then boasted about it, presenting his initiatives as crusades for racial and social justice.

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While many saw this demand for increasingly "flexible" loan terms and standards as a positive step for low-income and minority families, others warned that they could have potentially dangerous consequences. Franklin Raines, the Fannie chairman and first black CEO of a Fortune 500 company, warned that Cuomo's rules were moving Fannie into risky territory: "We have not been a major presence in the subprime market," he said, "but you can bet that under these goals, we will be." Fannie's chief financial officer, Timothy Howard, said that "making loans to people with less-than-perfect credit" is "something we should do." Cuomo wasn't shy about embracing subprime mortgages as a possible consequence of his goals. "GSE presence in the subprime market could be of significant benefit to lower-income families, minorities, and families living in underserved areas," his report on the new goals noted.

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You can read the rest and weep that your progressive goals have unintended consequences that they never take blame or responsibility for .... Instead they go to their tried and true demagoguery of demonizing the rich.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Relax Clete, the US can manipulate currency better than any country in the known world. A lesson Greece has yet to learn.

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Yes Tal size does matter but when that house of cards comes crashing down you take the rest of us with you as the GFC demonstrated. Greece suffers from trying to play with the big boys. Tom is back on the old line of blaming policy and not greed for the GFC, he forgets it was those worthless bonds that destroyed the system, a system based on lies

like I said .... I'm sourcing one of the most progressive publications in the world as my source.

Progressive, that's a word I never expected you to speak

I say it in the pejorative.

I notice you didn't use the word prestigious.

This is what you really need over there

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-1...elcome/6544434

The latest news is this crisis is yawn. After all we are only talking about a few billion and what does it matter in the big picture?

The first stage of default is when you close the banks and restrict access to funds

Greek debt crisis: Banks to remain shut all week - BBC News

This is what the Greek government has reaped by defying its creditors. Political brinkmanship is not pretty when it begins to affect the general population. The calculation is that as the Greek people move to referundum they will do one of two things; rebuke the government for allowing this situation to develop or endorse a break from Europe. This is a people who want to do things their own way. They have lived on OPM so long reality just doesn't exist

Greece and its principal creditors should acknowledge that Athens will never be able to repay the $ multi-billion it owes, write down its debt and let them exit the euro gracefully. As for the people ; they want lots of government jobs, with early retirement ages, sizeable pensions, and no chance of a reduction in their cost of living....with the rest of Europe picking up the tab .
They vote for politicians who have promised them all that . The US people should take a long hard look.

What is happening there is the inevidible outcome to our progressive policies .The only difference between is that we are bigger and can manage to hang in for a little longer. But the ignorance and stupidity are about the same.

I see Puerto Rico is about to go bust as well:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/bu...able.html?_r=2

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ignorance and stupidity are about the same.

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Yes Tom it is in the genes, this is where your massive migration from Europe got you, so it is no surprise that the grandchildren are doing exactly the same to you. But don't worry there will soon be a mass exodus back to Greece because it is cheaper to live the good life.

The only reason the greeks should get a write down is fair war reparations from Germany, otherwise you encourage the westrels and cheats

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I see Puerto Rico is about to go bust as well:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/bu...able.html?_r=2

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Same issue;Puerto Rico’s biggest problem lies with the public sector. When growth was high, the public sector grew too much. They borrowed money to pay for all of that and that’s why they are in they position they are in.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Yes Tom it is in the genes, this is where your massive migration from Europe got you, so it is no surprise that the grandchildren are doing exactly the same to you. But don't worry there will soon be a mass exodus back to Greece because it is cheaper to live the good life.

The only reason the greeks should get a write down is fair war reparations from Germany, otherwise you encourage the westrels and cheats

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Yes the best business minds have already gone 'Galt' on the country .

$72 Billion so Puerto Rica has been doing what any latin country does, spending money. If it is a US territory why hasn't it had the benefit of US largesse? Well the bailout has to come from the US, no one else is responsible and no one else should foot the bill

As to Greece, It is an outpost of the EU, so losing it doesn't affect anything

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If it is a US territory why hasn't it been the benefactor of US largesse?

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PR gets plenty US direct aid . $6.5 billion annually . 1/3 of the population gets food aid .25 percent of the monthly benefit may be redeemed for cash.”in direct cash block grants" .A 2010 USDA report said that it's widely acknowledged that 25% of the money gets spent on non-food items.

The answer for PR is either independence or becoming a US State . This territory limbo has to end.

So if it becomes a state what changes and independence sends it down the girgler. They are doing well if only 25% gets spent on non food items When I asked about US largess, I mean't development aid, investment there instead of Mexico

This is a non story Clete because in fact there are actual states in America that are in much worse economic shape than PR, and even Greece for that matter. Matter of fact there are governors running for president, even though their states are in very sad shape.

Well Tal what can I say, where I live you get no marks for failing to lead and we don't actually get state governors running for political office, since it isn't an elected office, quite the contrary a successful politician might be offered a governorship although it more often goes to those of notable achievement. Should we become a republic this will probably change. I looked up Peurto Rica and no doubt it has seen better days, but it is extraordinary that the US has this territory and hasn't exploited it for its strategic value

We have all seen better days before the global financial crisis.

PR has been a basket case for years . So was Greece . All that has happened was very predictable.

I can only agree with you Tom, but would expand that list globally to other countries, states, and towns that are no better off than the ones in the headlines.

Of course ! The economic engine of progressivism is dying ;sustained only by the deficit spending and illusions. You see it all over the world . The liberal vision is being challenged and replaced . In Europe the combination of Fascism and Islamism has social democracy on the ropes . Greece is telling the EU there is no legal basis for them being expelled .' So suck it up and bail us out '. Meanwhile Hasbro has volunteered to begin printing the new Drachma .

Greece illustrates how incredibly fragile the progressive house of cards has become.The Greek crisis has the potential to wreak major damage on the entire world economic system. Just check out the empty ATMs .

PR is equally plagued by liberal tinkering . As an example ,the minimum wage in PR is the same as the rest of the US . But their economy is so much weaker . Only 40 percent of the population has a job..or is even looking for one. That figure has plummeted in recent years. People who want to work can't because businesses that haven't fled yet can't afford the pay scale. The minimum wage is only slighty lower than the medium wage on the island .You think those businesses are a bunch of greedy bass turds too ?

It's expensive to hire and pay workers in PR. There is also a high cost of living , high cost of transportation, energy goods and services . And businesses are subject to unfriendly regulations.
Fewer tourists are planning trips to PR than they were a decade ago .The number of hotel beds is the same as it was four decades ago !
Like Maggie Thatcher said ...... eventually they run out of other people's money .

Obviously you are delighted that a socialist economy should fail, it gives you hope foryour capitalist utopia to emerge

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Of course ! The economic engine of progressivism is dying ;sustained only by the deficit spending and illusions. You see it all over the world . The liberal vision is being challenged and replaced . In Europe the combination of Fascism and Islamism has social democracy on the ropes . Greece is telling the EU there is no legal basis for them being expelled .' So suck it up and bail us out '.

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The Greek bailout may come from unexpected sources, China has emerged as an interested player and has much to gain from not being a bystander. I suspect they are very good at acquiring state owned assets since they understand how they should be operated. They also have strong reserves and don't want anything to restrict their markets. How will this change your view in years to come, when you realise your own country stood idly by and allowed your IMF to attempt to destroy the Greek economy with their capitalist driven austerity. As their middle class grows no doubt they can direct droves of Chinese to holiday in the greek isles

http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...e-in-the-euro/

It's not progressivism that ruins the world but economic extraction. What you refer to as OPM, is an excuse for non circulation of the money. Rich guys holding onto the crumbs and basically starving everyone else, everywhere.

I find it amusing whenever austerity is mentioned it's only for the poor working class slumps, and never for the rich investor class. When things screw up it's always the middle classes fault, and never the rich guys, or their paid for political stooges. How do you expect any economy to be effective if 80% is in the pockets of less than 1%?

Damn Greeks and Ricans just refuse to be assimilated! Illogical to even think such small pockets of humanity will bring the whole world down though!

obviously you haven't been watching the China market lately . What are they going to do for the Greeks ? Build more Potemkin cities ? For what ? Cornering the feta cheese market ?


They have to worry about their own "middle class " and their aspirations . What was the deal ? Wasn't it constant expansion of the economy in return for not revolting against the corrupt cadres ? This week they started their own version of QE .

As you know their whole economy is teetering on the mother of all real estate bubbles. Countries should not ride bubbles ;especially ones with a fragile economy and a rigid political system . Turns out it's much harder to state manage a consumer society than it was to force the peasants off the farms and into the state managed factories making cheap products for export .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

obviously you haven't been watching the China market lately . What are they going to do for the Greeks ? Build more Potemkin cities ? For what ? Cornering the feta cheese market ?


They have to worry about their own "middle class " and their aspirations . What was the deal ? Wasn't it constant expansion of the economy in return for not revolting against the corrupt cadres ? This week they started their own version of QE .

As you know their whole economy is teetering on the mother of all real estate bubbles. Countries should not ride bubbles ;especially ones with a fragile economy and a rigid political system . Turns out it's much harder to state manage a consumer society than it was to force the peasants off the farms and into the state managed factories making cheap products for export .

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You have such a myoptic view of the world. That you talk like this indicates you have never been to China and just swallow the propaganda your government spews out. China has large currency reserves and so a few billion to ease the woes of Greece is not too hard. They understand that investment and opportunity are important because they have a long term view. They also avoid interferring in domestic politics, no doubt because they expect that this will be recipricated. They have a vested interest in keeping Europe strong, it is a big market for them and a source of investment in China. Yes they may loose a little in property values but with a huge stock of unsold dwellings some adjustment is warranted. We would certainly like to see the China property market come off the boil because it is fueling a bubble in our own property markets. Besides they are getting their own development bank going and they will expand their interests dramatically. They don't have the same beggar my neighbour policies that your multinationals and fed employ.

They have a lot of farm boys wanting the big city life and this must be managered with employment, a fact that seems to be lost in capitalist thinking, so strategic investments in markets are important. A prosperous EU is good for their economy, whereas another financial debacle is no good for anyone

you're such a Sinophile suck up. China and Greece are both experiencing debt implosions. In Greece's case there will be a sovereign collapse . China is seeing the end of their growth explosion and they do not know how to manage a decline. It was a phony expansion fueled by the single largest credit expansion in monetary history.When the Real Estate bubble burst, China pushed for a stock market bubble. Now that bubble is bursting.

Not at all Tom but I recognise the trends, You may not like it but the twentieth century was your century and the twenty first century belongs to Asia and you know why?You gave them all your industries and know how. Economies like yours flower and then slowly decline. Don't talk of stock market bubbles, how many has your nation suffered ? You should take the lessons of history, nothing lasts forever. Look back at the empires of the past and you see the basket case economies of today, the world is littered with them. Overreach has a price

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Not at all Tom but I recognise the trends, You may not like it but the twentieth century was your century and the twenty first century belongs to Asia and you know why?You gave them all your industries and know how. Economies like yours flower and then slowly decline. Don't talk of stock market bubbles, how many has your nation suffered ? You should take the lessons of history, nothing lasts forever. Look back at the empires of the past and you see the basket case economies of today, the world is littered with them. Overreach has a price

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I see Japan circa 1980s . It will take decades for them once the dam bursts ;and they won't have that much time. The restive people made a devils bargain with the regime ;and the regime can no longer fulfill it's promise of huge expansion.

The cheap labor they relied on has moved on to other nations in the region. It aint coming back . They tried to pump it up with real estate investment . If they don't bull doze the ghost cities there will be vegetation climbing up the walls of the unoccupied high rises.

Many of the suckers in their "middle class " invested in properties they can't afford . Some are lucky enough to rent them out while they live in people's dormitories at their work place. The rest are about to get a to the skin hair cut .

Get ready for Tiananmen Square on steroids . You want basket case economies ? History is littered with repressive regimes that fail .

of course the US is not in much better shape. PR could have a bigger impact than we imagine. Then there is the national debt that has conveniently and mysteriously been stuck just below the national legal limit for 15 weeks ! I'm thinkin they's lyin to us rubes. How convenient for the Obots in the WH and @ Treasury ,and for Congress .Keeps em from doing something about it and having to listen to those inconvenient Tea Party members of Congress .

Tom get it straight, your republic is a shambles, two hundred years and your politicians have brought you undone. Your debt is legendary but your denial is even greater. As a citizen of the world I cannot understand or agree to your continued support. Literally you are wasting my money and you don't understand this.

My nation has problems but it has debt a tenth per capita of your nation and we are a viable dynamic economy. What makes the difference, An entirely different view point. Capitalism is not dead here, it operates with some of the world's largest corporations, but in an entirely different way.

You think I should endorse your vendetta against China but you fail to realise if you succeed you sink yourselves. You are a hollow shell of what you might have been sixty years ago and all that protects you is that others don't possess your strength

We are in shambles yet the strongest country in the world? Doesn't say much for the rest of the world. Doesn't say much for your vibrant economy either.

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We are the strongest country in the world?

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What I say to you Tal is all we have to do is take the long term view you will exhaust yourselves fighting your wars long before we will. There have been others who could make that statement and where are they today? We don't aspire to be the strongest country in the world, but in one hundred years we are among the top twenty

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You are a hollow shell of what you might have been sixty years ago and all that protects you is that others don't possess your strength

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60 years is about right. I'd say 50 years because you can find specific events that lead us on the road to predition. 1955 we were the only economy standing after WWII so yes we were at our zenith economically compared to the rest of the world . It was unrealistic to think we would continue with such an advantage for long.
In fact ,our time of unrivaled prosperity was extended because JFK wisely adopted supply side tax cuts .
But he was murdered and LBJ became President . He began a period of increasing the unsustainable spending and granting entitlements that has led us to where we are today . So it's 50 years .