Je Suis GellerQuote:
At least Geller gets PAID for her crap!
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Je Suis GellerQuote:
At least Geller gets PAID for her crap!
Je suis idiot
And another one bites the dust, apparently US forces took out a daesh leader in a boots on the ground operation in Syria.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-1...n-says/6475492
must be getting a little lonely at the top
They are like cockroaches . They multiply . They adjust . You don't see any images of long convoys of trucks anymore because they were being targeted . The next commander won't be as visible . The Syria situation is getting dire as the Islamic State continues to make gains.
The Syria situation has been dire for four years, but while there is an undesirable in power no one is going to do more than fiddle at the edges. Daesh represents one of the more organised groups and yet what they have done is take over in a vacuum. They don't seem to be very good at fighting pitched battles. We shouldn't count retreats by Iraqi forces as gains by Daesh. The arabs don't appear to have the heart for the fight and as the shiia Iraqi won't arm the sunni tribes we can expect that Daesh will be permitted to walk in. What is amazing here is a that a relatively small force of Daesh can rout a larger force ofIraqi army and shiia militia. Very poor leadership, I wonder who trained them?
The Sunnis can't be rallied to fight the Islamic State as they were during the surge because they know that a Shia goon squad will replace them . So the Sunnis on the fence would rather stay out of the fight ,or align themselves with the Islamic State . Take as an example the Iranian backed militias taking back Tikrit . They then went house to house doing a pogrom against Sunnis in the city . The militias continue to do the same in Baghdad . The central government is powerless to stop it .Quote:
The arabs don't appearto have the heart for the fight and as the shiia Iraqi won't arm the sunni tribes we can expect that Daesh will be permitted to walk in. What is amazing here is a that a relatively small force of Daesh can rout a larger force ofIraqi army and shiia militia. Very poor leadership, I wonder who trained them?
As for your cheap shot at American training ... The Iraqi army is comprised of mostly Shia recruits who are in for the payday . They have no incentive to fight.
If you are looking for fault then look no further than the emperor's decision to retreat ,and not renew the status of forces agreement . Don't blame American trainers (all 3,000 of them) who have been confined to their base ,and cannot travel with the troops they train into the battle . They are not even permitted to call in air strikes.
The US has a half hearted effort against the Islamic State . Oh you can look it up and they are happy to tell you how many tanks they've taken out during 'Operation Pin Prick' aka 'Operation Inherent Resolve' .
Defense.gov Special Report: Operation Inherent Resolve
But the Islamic State continues to make gains in Iraq and Syria . The good news is that they did manage to find 100 troops from the Free Syrian Army to train.
This is the emperor's legacy . Reporters in this country should stop asking gotcha questions to Repubic candidates about what they would've done in 2003 about Iraq ,and start asking what they would do today about the Levant .
Tom you aren't the only guys who have trainers on the ground but it has obviously been ineffective because the troops aren't supported by a good officer cadre and logistics the troops ran because they were running out of ammunition, Ramadi has been a long fight, and air strikes, well they are surgical and not used where there are civilian populations, if they still exist in Ramadi. I think it is time to say to Iran, I think we will let you do the heavy lifting this time and just back the kurds.
What would you do Tom have your trainers on the front line carrying the fight to the enemy? Vietnam all over again? In all the time you were in Iraq you couldn't pacify Anbar so you won't do it with 3,000 backed by a rag tag army that runs when it gets serious opposition. What legacy? You won the war in Iraq, remember the surge? But if you were serious you could sweep in and take it again. The Saudi would applaud and give you a base of operations. Your media isn't going to ask the right questions, to do that you might have some inkling of the right answer.
What I don't understand is with all your air power daesh is still selling electricity to the Syrian regime, the oil refineries and oil fields still operate, the Syrians are using low grade chemical weapons and Obama has splinters in his arse
We did not have to pacify Anbar. All we had to do was be strong enough to get the Sunni tribes on our side having them know that we had their back . Then they did the heavy lifting and drove AQ Iraq out .Quote:
In all the time you were in Iraq you couldn't pacify Anbar so you won't do it with 3,000 backed by a rag tag army that runs when it gets serious opposition
The status of forces agreement was for a larger force than just 3,000 trainers . It was big enough to keep Iran out of Iraq until a time when the Iraqi government could take care of security on their own.
But the emperor screwed it up 2 ways .
1. He did not extend the status of forces agreement
2. He backed the Iranian stooge Maliki in the election even though Ayad Allawi won the vote.
What I don't understand is with all your air power daesh is still selling electricity to the Syrian regime, the oil refineries and oil fields still operate, the Syrians are using low grade chemical weapons and Obama has splinters in his arse
Th
Maybe he should recall stormin Norman you can't recall those other generals they were disgraced. The way I thought it worked was the Joint Chiefs were advisors to the CIC not the other way around. No you should let Iran get its arse kicked in Iraq, they should experience their own personal Vietnam, they wouldn't shrink from using tactical nukes, if they had themQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
One aspect we tend to forget is Daesh recruiting in unlikely places
A Georgian region is fertile ground for Islamic State - US news
The news media focuses on the big hit items, Palmyra, Ramadi, Tikrit while the real problem is stemming the flow of fighters into the conflict. Those fighters will also be coming from within Iraq because the sunni will not stand by and let the shiia have their way. Old enmities die hard and Iraq is proving that it may become another generational war
it's a millenial war dating back to the beginning when the pedophile Prophet formed his religion with a sword and conquest . The Islamic state is an army of 20,000 savages . But they are treated by the world like they are the greatest force in the region. Shia militias will drive them out of Ramadi just like they did in Tikrit.
The problem then will be that the Shia militias will do a pogrom against the Sunni residents .
The problem you raise about foreign fighters comes into play when they return home after training to be a jihadists in Iraq and Syria .
You may like to think that but in fact it is a war that you unleashed on the region because of Bush's unfinished business. I think we all understand that the arab mind thinks in terms of vengeance, generational vengeance and given opportunity the shiia will extract it as they have been doing. You cannot minimise what Daesh is, a well organised force of fanatics who have acquired weapons that make them more formidable. Their main force will not be easily driven out and a victory in Tikrit doesn't mean much. This is a war of attrition. It has become a proxy war for the gulf states, saudi and Iran
As to returning fighters, the question is why are they returning? They may be a threat in radicalising others or they may be a moderating influence. We have laws which will prosecute them and jail them, not a great incentive to return. But the flow of foreign fighters must be stopped and Turkey is the key, obviously they are facilitating this. A weakened Syria is in their interests
a moderating influence ? they are learning jihad .......the Muslim reformation.
Yes Tom but there are some who think that these fighters have found that the reality is not a glorious caliphate but death and degradation and that they would use their experiences to convince disaffected youth not to join in. I am personally skeptical. I don't think our western mind can grasp the driving forces behind this muslim jihad to cleanse Islam of the apostate shiia and restablish the caliphate and don't forget Turkey was, until 1918, the last vestigate of that ancient caliphate. Past glories die hard in that world of tribalism and religious furvour.
OBL successfully used this furvour to raise a standard against infidel US forces in Saudi Arabia, and Daesh has undoubtedly used it to drive out or kill anyone other than the most militant sunni in Syria and Iraq. You think this is about reformation in the muslim world and some good will come of it?
no I don't think any good will come to it . I am just throwing out the proposition that there are people in the West who think that Islam needs a reformation similar to what happened to Christianity(allegedly to return Christianity to the way Christ intended ) ....and I say it is possible that this jihadistan movement is that reformation (return Islam to what the 'prophet ' intended ). It most likely is a false assumption that any good will come of it at all.
The Christian reformation was about redemption but this Muslim revolution is about death. Do you know the wahhabist sunni consider the shiia even worse than kaffir? Their view of the shiia is something akin to the way we thought about muslims a thousand years ago. We should not glorify what they are doing by calling it a reformation and if it is a restoration then we must crush this blood cult. Mudhutmad was desert terrorist who raided neighbouring settlements, his followers are no different today. Mudhutmad would have loved to have had 30,000 wahhabists at his disposal, but not even he could command such a force while he was alive
reform ...... “make changes (in something, typically a social, political, or economic institution or practice) in order to improve it.” What if improving Islam means purging it of “infidels” and “apostates,” segregating Muslim men from women, keeping the latter under wraps or quarantined at home; Banning many forms of freedoms taken for granted in the rest of the world ? The Protestant reformation was a return to sola scriptura .....scriptural literalism ;and it appears that is the basis for the current jihadi movement. The teachings of the Bible and Koran are antithetical and that explains the different results of 'reformation' .
Your definition includes the word improve. In what way do you think what you have laid out is an improvement, it is just more of the same? Any system that subjects men and women to a system that is more akin to slavery is not an improvement. Islam is a system of domination in every form of life. If you had spent any time in a muslim country you would know this. Fundamentalism can have unintended consequences, in the case of Islam it is a return to its barbaric past
I'll admit it's been a long time. But I spent considerable time in a Muslim country in the 1970s. I did not see anything close to the radicalization that happened only a couple years later .Quote:
If you had spent any time in a muslim country you would know this
In the jihadist mind ;they are improving Islam by returning it to the tenets on the book .It's the book that's the problem .
I think it's the fundamentalist interpretation of the book that's the problem. Not much different than the Holy War Catholics, or the blue blood monarchs of medieval time, or those devout christian gentlemen who owned slaves and fought for the right to keep and spread the practice.
Seems to be what religions have done throughout the history of man. Doesn't matter the book, somebody is always a savage, a heathen, or an infidel at some time or another, depending on which self righteous religious bast@rd and his conquering army decides to spread the word.
This is but the latest manifestation of my god is better than yours, after some colonial power has reeked havoc on a population.
And which colonial power might that be Tal in the case of the Muslims. The real point of it all is that if they want to live this way then we should stop interferring with them. You will see that they will quickly stop killing each other and even if they don't it isn't our business. No there are certain people who want to stir up trouble and sell them arms. You hardly hear any news out of Afghanistan today and what do you hear from Libya? This thing between the shiia and the sunni isn't an argument about God, it is about who should lead Islam back in the dark ages. Sorry the dark ages still exist in the middle east
The British, the Germans, and then the US ruled Iran and installed their leaders and that does include Saddam in Iraq. The European and US fingerprints are all over the middle east.
Yes Tal for centuries the europeans of all persuasions interfered in Africa and the middle east and it is the US who fostered a war between Iran and Iraq, playing both sides, who are responsible for the current debacle. You are the successors to the great game but you have never learned subtle. The Muslims aren't shouting at the British or the French when they declare their enmity and you are doing it again with China, making an enemy where no enemy existsQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
So sayeth the little dog to the big dog, from the relative safety of their own porch!Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
more nonsense . The Chinese are on the verge of destroying the international order established after WWII ,and the precedence of freedom of navigation . It wont be an issue to you until you start having to pay tribute to use the navigation lanes . Then you'll cry out "where is the US Navy " ?Quote:
you are doing it again with China, making an enemy where no enemy exists
We did not start the Iran Iraq war . Not even close . Saddam Hussein started it . He thought that he could exploit the chaos of the Iranian Revolution . He miscalculated . We did not play both sides . We got involved when the Iranians started to target international trade through the Gulf . Then the US Navy came to the rescue to insure the freedom of navigation ...
Strange sense of history Tom; you deposed the ruler of Iran and installed the Shah, a person favourable to you, when he was deposed by popular uprising you supported saddam in his war and then sold the Iranians arms to use against saddam. If saddam had not been a client state you wouldn;t have cared two hoots about the gulf. If the Chinese destroy your international order that may not be a bad thing but you may find if you pick a fight with the chinese it will do more damage to you than it does to them. We won't pay tribute because those aren't our ships but if they want our minerals and gas they will look favourably our way. You see, we are not blind, we know you once again look greedily at our markets, but given what's going on at home you should be looking to your own because you have allowed the chinese to become your supplier of choice. Where do you think your electronics come from? your clothes? but you sell them more than they sell you so stop the trade and you loose both ways
Tal you little dog big dog analogy suits your barking at China you will keep pushing until you invent another Gulf of Tonkin incident
you talk of me having a strange sense of history ? Now if you said 'if the world energy supply wasn't an issue' then you would be right . We wouldn't care and would only play lip service to the gross human rights conditions in countries where Islam plays a part in the law. However ,you see what the people you claim are medival do with their leverage ,and with modern weapons.Quote:
If saddam had not been a client state you wouldn;t have cared two hoots about the gulf.
As far as Iran goes ;the Shah was already there during the Mosaddegh term . Mosaddegh was using "emergency powers " to take power away from the Shah. He also disolved the Parliment . In other words ,a typical 3rd world "one vote ,one time" democracy .
That alone did not tip the scales . However ,he relied heavily on the pro-Soviet Tudeh Party as his base of power and was stearing the country into the Soviet sphere .
Yes the Ayatollahs used the coup as a pretext for stirring up the mob in 1979. In truth had Mosaddegh not been over thrown ,the clerics would've rose up against him much earlier than 1979. He was certainly not steering the country in a direction they approved .
of course you will either directly or indirectly . $$ Billions of commerce pass through the sea lanes they are making claim to . No they have no right to make such claims just because they dredge coral reefs in some other nation's waters . Thank God that the rest of Australia understands the significance.Quote:
We won't pay tribute because those aren't our ships
http://news.yahoo.com/japan-join-u-a...081619681.html
You are too smart to not understand the broader implications of this sea land grab. It is no different than what the Russians are doing .
Tom there is a vast difference between the Crimea and eastern Ukraine and the Spratley Islands. No one was interested in the damn things until China displayed an interest. Obviously China is building an air base, how's Diego Garcia going by the way. It seems big nations like airfields in strange places.
Does any of this sound familiar?Quote:
from Wikipeada Various political parties in India repeatedly called for the military base to be dismantled, as they saw the United States naval presence in Diego Garcia as a hindrance to peace in the Indian Ocean.
[ I see you spruking up China's sinster motives, the american line at the moment, but perhaps they are ensuring that the sea lanes remain open to China in the face of your pivot to asia. Cause and effect Tom, grand standing by your president may have caused this
grand standing by yourThe Chinese began flexing their muscles long before the emperor's reign began . And it's not just the Spratleys . It's also the Senkaku Isles,Scarborough Schoals , the Natunas ;Paracels ,disputes in the Gulf of Tonkin ,and disputes with EVERY other nation that is adjacent to their bogus cow tongue 9 dash line .But of course the Chinese are right and Japan ,Taiwan ,Philippines ,Vietnam ,Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia , Malaysia ,and all the other island nations in the region are wrong in your view . No this isn't Russia grabbing Crimea. This is as blatant as Saddam Hussein deciding the Kuwait belongs to Iraq. Both had to invent a historical justification for their territorial grab.Quote:
president may have caused this
Do you like the territorial guarantee of the LOST. Would you like to have other nations come to your aid when they decided that their territorial claim extends to the Coral Sea ? Would you like for them to do to the Great Barrier Reef what they are doing to the coral beds in the South China sea as they dredge to create their great wall of sand ?
Attachment 47462
Look Tom like you I see that some of China's claims are ridiculous but nations need to settle disputes without big brother stirring the pot. Australia has possessions that others might well think should be theirs. Christmas Island, the Cocos Islands, Ashmore Island come to mind as do islands in the Torres Strait.
Look Clete ,we have defense treaties with most of the major nations on the other side of the disputes .You say they have to settle them themselves ,but they do not have the power to impose their will like China does. China has the power and is using it for unprecedented territorial grabs . We have the power to make the Gulf of Mexico an American lake too. But we wouldn't .
The Chinese see it as extending their defensive zone true . But more important to them is the resources under the water ;and control of one of the most important sea lanes on the planet . So because of that it is not merely a matter of local territorial disputes. The Chinese have imposed their defensive zones already on commercial ocean and air fleets . They have gone so far as to challenge the USN . The USN has defended the principle of open seas since the days of Jefferson . We will not stop now .
Look Tom these nations have to stand up for themselves, China might have a large army but generally it's forces are weak and what they are doing is bluff. Thoses nervious nellies in Japan have a large defense force and the ability to force the issue, so do Taiwan if it comes to the point. You want open seas, sail back and forth between Malaysia and Japan drop into Vietnamise ports. No one wants a shooting war but gunboat diplomacy is something they understand and so do you after all you use it all the time.
This is much more about your ego than freedom of the seas
It's not about our ego when the Chinese can tell us to leave the area ,and believe they have the right to do so. If the Chinese can block free passage of resources through the South China Sea and the East China Sea ,then they have a huge hammer to wield on Japan ,S Korea , Phillipines and all the other nations in the region. The Japanese can create in short order a defense force necessary to challenge it .But why would you want the Japanese to rearm to that extent ? It is the Chinese that risk turning this into a shooting war ;not us . So stop the bs about the US ego. You are on the wrong side of this .
ps . The blue lines on the map I provided is the exclusive zones according to LOST. The Chinese are participants of the UN and therefore part of the LOST; which took effect in 1994 . The red line is the territorial zones of other nations they are encroaching according to LOST .
EGO? China is weak? Tell me again why Australia is playing with us in this military exercise? Is that EGO too?
Tal there are sicophants in every government, we have them too. Wall to wall yankeephiles. We have an alliance with you and therefore we carry out military exercises with you, you also carry out military exercises with other nations and these sometimes upset certain people. Recently one of your sicophants announced his plans to make Australia a B2 base, you can be assured there were two countries not happy about that. We do not have military intent to engage China, not so sure about you. I wonder where you will stand when we find it necessary to keep the waterways open that pass through Indonesian waters
Tom, I can read maps just as well as you can, but apparently you fail to see that the USA does not appear on that map. You have a problem with the japanese rearming but they have an aircraft carrier they call a destroyer and we can bet what it is meant to destroy. We must not get in the middle of centuries old disputes. There is a lot of unsettled business between Japan and China and I have no doubt that will lead to war one day as it has in the past. I don't doubt the japanese have nuclear capability, they would be foolish to be relying solely on your umbrella, even if that capability is only on paper
So the chinese told you to POQ, not the first time and won't be the last, next time you send a spy plane file a flight plan. Point is; you have satellites, you don't need spy planes, you were just being provocative and some low level chinese called you on it
http://www.news.com.au/world/the-war...-1227371823129
<<rimshot >> that's funny ! They have no right to challenge us over international air space . If they don't like it they can pound their wall of sand .Quote:
next time you send a spy plane file a flight plan
You should be glad, Clete, we came from across the water to help you bark at China who is intent on controlling so much of the ocean that so many depend on economically.
In this you proved you can get off the porch and run with the right big dog.
We don't need to bark at China, nor do we need the big dog to bark at China. Look at this through the lens of history, the Chinese are doing what they always do when they feel threatened, They are building a wall. Admittantly this wall is a little further from Beijing than usual but a wall never the less, all their walls of sand crumble in time. The only people who are threatened are you because you see some of your influence reduced. We moved to bring the Chinese in from the cold before you did and have cordial relations with them. You on the other hand feel you must tell them what to do and where they can do it by barking at them. When one dog starts barking all the dogs start barking. They are just emulating you
http://www.smh.com.au/national/china...27-ghaxa8.html
It seems our yankeephiles are yielding to your view however barking and dog whistling are not what is needed. What China is demonstrating is if you want something go and get it and if you feel you must defend the Phillipines after withdrawing your base then go and do that, blockade the island. You made the soviets withdraw from Cuba, make the Chinese withdraw from Spratly
No worries Clete, I realize you are doing the best you can with what you have, and that's okay, but thank the stars your government takes a wider view of the world.
You don't have to pray to the Chinese because they need your dirt though.
Pray to the Chinese, don't you mean prey on the Chinese. We have a good balance of trade with the Chinese. They like our iron ore, our coal, our gas, our wine and lots of other stuff, we like their tourists, their students, they are not loud and offensive and disrespecting of our laws. We might even have a FTA with them which is likely to benefit us more than the FTA we have with you which doesn't benefit us at all.
You see everything through the lens of an amerocentric lens, if you aren't in the centre you don't like it. Your pivot to asia was a recent idea but we recognised the need to pivot to asia twenty years ago. Suddenly you have realised that things have been going on that might get in your way and you don't like it. I hope you are not going to do as you did in the forties and goad the asians into a war
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