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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

He was not including the white girls in that comment. Those words were most definitely directed toward the black members of the team. I don't think there is any debate about that.

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I think it was a racist and sexist comment. When he used the word "ho's" - he was saying something against the entire team.

I don't want to get in a debate on what he meant the statement to be - because he is an idiot and you can never understand an idiot. I think he insulted the whole team - black and white.

Hello again:

Here's where we get into trouble. Free speech is not free. There are limits on it. You can't shout fire in a crowded theater. You can't organize a prayer meeting in public school, and you can't use the PUBLIC airways to spew venom.

The key word is PUBLIC. YOU and I own the airways. We license the providers and regulate the content. We don't let pornography on Good Morning America, and we ought not let racists spew hate on a different channel at the same time.

Look, I'm not a believer in regulation. I think you should be able to eat all the transfat you want and it's fine with me if you don't wear your seatbelts. But, since there are only a FEW airways, they are considered to be a “common”, like electricity is a “common”, or the highways, and we REGULATE commons, as we should.

Since WE regulate and license, the onus of Imus' pronouncement shifts from him - to US. We (government) have the power to remove him or let him stay. IF we let him stay, does that mean that we, the public sanction what he said??

I think it does.

excon

I totally get what you are saying, excon, I do. But, part of what makes us who we are - is our differences. I do not choose to listen/watch Don Imus. Or anyone else I find boring or offensive. But, there are others that enjoy listening or watching and actually share some of the same views. (right or wrong)
I guess what gets me going is that we are in such an uproar over words that came out of this man's mouth - when there are so many other - bigger issues in our country that should have our attention and our passion. Not an idiot like Don Imus.

I have to agree fully with what ScottGem and excon have both stated. We do tend to forget those aspects they have both very logically and effectively have pointed out.

Nowwhat, why not get into a debate about it? That was the reason I posted. I am not trying to drag people into a fighting match. I want to know peoples opinions and I wanted to have an animated discussion and friendly debate about it.

So, I still don't agree with what you are saying. You cannot separate the words that were spoken. He called them "nappy headed hos." If he just said "hos" I would wholeheartedly agree that he was referring to the entire team. But, he didn't.

Like most have said already, what Imus said is reprehensible. (The degree of punishment is where many disagree).

But, as a person who has only seen the Imus show a few times and doesn't know much about the man, I can appreciate that he has put himself waaaay out there to be criticised and yelled at by continuously appearing apologetic in public... especially by stepping outside his own territory and into Al Sharpton's and scheduled, soon, to be on the women's, he insulted, territory.

He could've pridefully stood by his hurtful and insensitive comments, or made protected and weak apologies, like other shock jocks (and comedian) have done recently.

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

I totally get what you are saying, excon, I do. But, part of what makes us who we are - is our differences. I do not choose to listen/watch Don Imus. Or anyone else I find boring or offensive. But, there are others that enjoy listening or watching and actually share some of the same views. (right or wrong)
I guess what gets me going is that we are in such an uproar over words that came out of this man's mouth - when there are so many other - bigger issues in our country that should have our attention and our passion. Not an idiot like Don Imus.

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I just saw your post after I posted my last response. I agree with you about bigger issues. Care to start a thread on a topic of interest or concern to you?

Ruby, I can debate with the best of them - What I didn't want to debate was the mind of an idiot. I agree what he said was wrong and all of that. But, I think he insulted the whole team. The entire team was at the press conference - not just the black girls. He made a racist and sexist statement.

As far as starting my own thread - I wouldn't know which topic to choose.

Hello again:

The key to my post, is that we're really not talking about this jerk. On that, we agree.

But, since this jerk is licensed by you and me to do his thing, and WE can CHOOSE to stop him cold or let him continue, I think the conversation is much more about US than it is HIM.

excon

Of course the entire team was at the press conference. They are a team, after all.

If you don't want to debate the mind of an idiot, then don't. I did not force you to join in on this discussion.

You have made a point that there are bigger issues in our country. I agree. When you feel like discussing one of those issues or you choose a topic that is of interest, then start a thread. If I am around and have something to say, or to add to the discussion, I will.

P.S. Thank you excon. You have hit the nail on the head as to what my intentions were here.

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Originally Posted by manimuth

Like most have said already, what Imus said is reprehensible. (The degree of punishment is where many disagree).

But, as a person who has only seen the Imus show a few times and doesn't know much about the man, I can appreciate that he has put himself waaaay out there to be criticised and yelled at by continuously appearing apologetic in public....especially by stepping outside his own territory and into Al Sharpton's and scheduled, soon, to be on the women's, he insulted, territory.

He could've pridefully stood by his hurtful and insensitive comments, or made protected and weak apologies, like other shock jocks (and comedian) have done recently.

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Yes, man. I think he has really put himself out there. Actually, his handling of it has surprised me. Maybe his ratings are not that great after all. Look at Howard Stern. I wonder if he would have apologized to the extent Imus has. I tend to doubt it. He is always defending his right to state whatever is on his mind.

My husband and I talked about Howard Stern last night. I am curious of what his take is on this. He (I think) hates Don Imus. But he is always defending his right to say what he wants.

There are so many battles to pick - do we start with the small ones or the big ones? And what is considered small or big? Getting Don Imus off the air - what does it accomplish. I guarantee you there is another one just like him waiting in the wings - waiting to get his big break. So what do we do?

I don't know the answer to "what do we do." As you can see from my responses I am questioning the entire process as well.

However I do know that Howard Stern and Don Imus DO hate each other. The feud goes back about 25 years. I used to listen them both when they were both on the same radio station out of NY. Imus felt that he was a mentor to Stern and Stern owed his success to Imus. Stern didn't agree. Boy, you should have heard some of that infighting. Now THAT was entertainment.

I just read that Staples and Proctor & Gamble have pulled advertising on the Imus show. Biglow Tea Co. has said that he has put their advertising in jeopardy.
So, in the end, money is going to determine his fate.

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

So, in the end, money is going to determine his fate.

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That's the way and the reason most things are done in the U.S.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello Ruby:

To those of you who are saying this is a Freedom of Speech issue, you’re wrong. I don’t own the corner soapbox. I don’t own the newspaper. I don’t own the TV station.

But I OWN the PUBLIC airways and license their use. They should NOT be used to spew venom.

excon

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True this kind of talk (Imus not the con) Is not helping anyone. It's sexist racist, and just downright insulting to these "girls" yes they are practically just teens and I know if someone called my nieces or daughter a ho, I would not be happy. Imus is picking on children, who have done nothing wrong, only attempted to succeed. And both these men are lowlifes trying to take advantage of the situation for personal gain. (who even was paying ant attention to Immus) To sum up both of them should be deported to Canada. LOL

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Originally Posted by Matt3046

I know if someone called my nieces or daughter a ho, I would not be happy.

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Wow, you must be going crazy trying to shut down rap music then! They say much worse stuff than Imus.

When my husband and I were talking about this - he said the same thing.
That some of the same things are being said in rap music

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Wow, you must be going crazy trying to shut down rap music then! They say much worse stuff than Imus.

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Yes I have been spending quite allot of time trying to shut down rap.:p Here's my strategy, never buy, listen or acknowledge it in anyway. LOL
Since I don't actually listen to it I don't really know. I was just trying to make the point that these girls didn't deserve to be singled out and insulted. Yes he does have the right but it is still just mean. Rap music is vulgar and everyone knows it (except me) Imus named a specific group, besides I do agree rap needs to be contained also. At least if it is too much keep it of the radio.

I agree with Matt. In rap music, the performers are not throwing insults directed at a specific group of young women they do not know.

That actually is where you get into a freedom of speech/expression right. Just as with the KKK, we do not have to attend these events or purchase recordings.

The problem for me, comes into play when we are paying for entertainment. I have satellite. I do not have a choice where I live. I pay for the service. Therefore, I feel I do have a right to state that I do not approve of certain content.

And, yes Nowwhat, I saw that this morning too. "Money will determine his fate" comes back to what I was saying earlier. If the producers cannot make any, he will be axed. This should be very interesting to see how it all plays out. I am wondering if this will set a precedent or create new rules that will be followed by the owners of these networks. I guess time will tell. But, this incident truly seems to be having a snowball effect for Imus at the moment.

Ah my favorite words, "I agree with matt" I just think this is more personal then black/ white he didn't say this about black women in general but about these young ladies specifically. Also Sharpton is a poor excuse for a representative.

Just heard that MSNBC canned Imus

Oh the old comment "there are bigger issues than this to deal with so why bother discussing it"

So where do we stop. There are bigger issues than education, transport etc in the world so does that mean we don't deal or talk about it?

Stuff our homeless lets just look at the bigger issues and deal with world famine. No, it can't be like that! Sorry, doesn't add to this discussion much but I just get annoyed when people just throw away an issue by saying there are bigger worries in the world. Well right now for these girls and Mr Imus there probably aren't!

It is more than sad - to hear Don Imus ruin his long career over his thoughtless and racially slurred comments - to hear CNN beat this dead horse over and over - to see Al Sharpton ONCE AGAIN hogging the media - to witness the genuine shock of the Rutgers team as they try to process being in this media feeding frenzy..

Maybe we should get out an old stockade from the Puritan days, I am sure there is one somewhere, and place Imus in the town square and flog him. Would that make him sorry enough to please everyone?

Yes, shy, I agree. The whole situation is very sad. Al Sharpton has just sunk his teeth into this and won't let go. If he didn't, there wouldn't have been such a media circus.

Scott, I just heard the same news. I guess enough of the larger sponsors complained and/or pulled their spots. Money does talk. But, who knows. The way things work in this world, Imus will pop up somewhere else at some point. Maybe Sirius Radio, like Howard Stern.

Sirius Radio would be the way to go, for Imus. Howard Stern has not suffered from going over there.
I have listened to Imus for many years and have often agreed and disagreed with his comments. I am not defending him at all on the Rutgers comment. But also, if people know he is controversial, then do not listen to him. Listen another programming - like NPR.

I heard the news as well.

I wonder if his words made those girls sad inside. I think his words did. That is so very sad. Imagine feeling that way. I know, when I was 18 or 19, those words would have hit me quite hard.

Once again, just another sad sad situation and no happy ending.

True, Allheart, no happy ending. I think of how hard each of those girls worked all through their previous school years and earned the right to be at Rutgers. How many teens would give their right arm to get into Rutgers? Those girls made it - by being smart, sharp, athletic, capable, talented, and dedicated young women. To have someone else, who has never met any one them, make that hoe comment, is beyond comprehension.

Even though you know inside, his words do not fit, in their shoes, at their age, knowing how there are some ill minds in society, I tell you, I would have been mortified.

Hello again,

But, there is a happy ending. #1) Those girls will scooped up by top notch firms and their careers are set. GOOD for them. #2) NBC got it. GOOD for them. 3#) Racism, which we pretended went away, showed us we have work to do. GOOD for us.

excon

True, excon. Just today there was another article in the newspaper about a young actor who was picked up by police and was making racial slurs. Wonder if his career is down the tubes too? It ought to be.

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

I am not sure if this is the correct area to place this but I didn't want to subject anyone to "ratings" in Issues and Causes. So, I am posting this here for discussion.

Just wondering if anyone is familiar with what is going on and what their opinions are.

For those of you who do not know, I will try to recap in a nutshell.

Don Imus is a radio and television personality. He has a talk radio show that can be viewed on television on MSNBC. He is known for making, distasteful remarks, at times. Some call his humor, potty humor. Some think he is really quite funny. Anyway, during one of his broadcasts, they were recapping a basketball game played by the Rutgers girl's baskeball team. Rutgers lost. While they were airing a clip, Imus made a comment about the team. He called them "nappy headed hos" (nappy headed whores). Most of the girls are African-American and there is no question that they are the ones to whom he was directing his remarks. There was quite an uproar over this. Imus was suspended for two weeks. Reverend Al Sharpton is calling for Imus to be fired and he is not backing down. Sharpton thinks it is high time that people who make these racist comments need to be dealt with in a way that isn't a simple slap on the back of the hand, which is what he views the suspension to be.

So, for those of you who are familiar with this, any comments? What are your views?
For those of you not familiar with this, please do a google search to gather more info. Then post back here with your views.

I am quite interested in hearing opinions. I think this really cuts to the heart of the racial problems we are still having in this country, and I am wondering where people stand on this issue.

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I don't like either personally, Best way to handle it cut them off, If we don't lessen to them they will be cut off. If we lessen we will surely become like them. What we let in our mines and the people we surround ourselves with, we will surly become like them.

Thought I'd share some interesting quotes :

Black leadership has to recognize that principles more than speech, character more than a claim, is greater in advancing the cause of our liberation than what has transpired thus far.
Louis Farrakhan
I think that ego-driven leaders will be a thing of the past because the masses are tired.
Louis Farrakhan
There really can be no peace without justice. There can be no justice without truth. And there can be no truth, unless someone rises up to tell you the truth.
Louis Farrakhan
They call them terrorists, I call them freedom fighters.
Louis Farrakhan
You must recognize that the way to get the good out of your brother and your sister is not to return evil for evil.
Louis Farrakhan
Sometimes I feel like rap music is almost the key to stopping racism.
Eminem
How do you make things fair?
Al Sharpton
I have been guilty of letting ungodly things around me.
Al Sharpton
If O.J. had been accused of killing his black wife, you would not have seen the same passion stirred up.
Al Sharpton
If you can get the proper definition of trouble, then we can find out who the real troublemakers are.
Al Sharpton

If you play the theatrics too much, you get in the way of your own cause.
Al Sharpton
In the South, blacks were blacks and whites were whites. In the North, blacks are Caribbean, African, Dominican, Southern.
Al Sharpton
One thing people never talked about, after the marches, was how we were able to take such hostility and not respond.
Al Sharpton
My goal is to goad people into saying something that ruins their life.
Don Imus
I am free of all prejudices. I hate every one equally.
WC Fields
I think every group of black guys should have at least one white guy in it.
Dave Chappelle

Chris Rock's Rude Interruption
On the world:
"You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is a Chinese guy, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are name 'Bush,' '' and 'Colon.' Need I say more?"

Shaun Powell had a GREAT column about all this in today's Newsday. You can read it here:

It's more than just Imus - Newsday.com

ScottGem,

Excellent, excellent column! Thank you for sharing. I hope more people take a look at it.

manimuth

Hello:

Well, leave it to me to disagree. When I was a kid, they told me rock and roll was bad. It wasn't. So no, I don't think it's Snoop Dog's fault any more than the 60's were John Lennon's fault.

Does art reflect or shape society? I think it's a reflection, therefore I look beyond artists for the REAL problems we have. It's easy to stop there, but pure folly.

excon

ScottGem! I will ditto manimuth's sentiments! THANK YOU. What a great article! If you hadn't posted it, I wouldn't have seen it. Very powerful words! We need to have more people discussing this problem and bringing it out in the forefront.

P.S. I love you ex but this time I don't agree with you. MWAH.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

Well, leave it to me to disagree. When I was a kid, they told me rock and roll was bad. It wasn't. So no, I don't think it's Snoop Dog's fault any more than the 60's were John Lennon's fault.

Does art reflect or shape society? I think it's a reflection, therefore I look beyond artists for the REAL problems we have. It's easy to stop there, but pure folly.

excon

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I figured I should explain my position. The difference here is that in your day, those performers did not denigrate women the way they do today. The line has most definitely been crossed. These songs treat all black women in a most disrespectful way. If they want to talk about whites and cops and make a statement, that is one thing. But, these other songs that Powell is writing about, do not contain any constructive political messages or stances, just hateful words.

excon,
I see your point. I agree that art is often a reflection but I think it is unwise to completely deny its impact on the young and the impressionable; especially in a day and age when exposure to "artistic" music and television shows, meant to be satirical and entertaining, are greater than exposure to solid, good, role models and guidance.

Can art shape or inspire people's views? Yes! Yes! especially when the viewers are young.

I also agree that the problem does NOT stop with the "artists" who call women "b***hes" and "hoes".

manimuth

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

The difference here is that in your day, those performers did not denigrate women the way they do today. The line has most definitely been crossed.

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Hello again, Ruby Dear:

My day? I'm not that old.

I don't disagree with you about the songs. However, my premise remains the same. Are the performers denigrating women because their society does? Or does their society do it because the performers do?

I think it's the former.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Are the performers denigrating women because their society does? Or does their society do it because the performers do?

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Hello excon,

I don't believe it is as simple as that. Sometimes there is a diconnect between what society says or does and what artists do. Why is the "N" word OK in rap songs but horrendous in social use? Do you think rap artists use the words "nappy hoes" because Imus, and other white men, go around saying the words or is it the other way around?

It's not always a simple cause and effect when it comes to art and society. Sometimes art can transcend society and be provocative, inspirational, and revolutionary. So, it is not always just a mirror for society. Sometimes it can be a powerful smack in the face.

manimuth