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They are no more Islamic than the KKK are Christians

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If 90% of the Christian world allowed the Klan to dictate the Christian agenda to the rest of the world, the Klan would be precisely as Christian as the Wahabbists are Islamic. As the one interviewer asked: Where are the moderate Muslims calling for peace? The answer is quite simple: they have been executed by the fanatics or are hiding. Thus the entire face of Islam is an illiterate Arab with an RPG. No he's not typical but he has the rest of the billion or so Muslims behind him, reluctantly or not.

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They are no more Islamic than the KKK are Christians. Your hate allows you to believe their lies.

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The KKK is a particular aborition of your society, you might reflect upon that. ISIS is a particular aborition of their society, neither can exist without a wider acceptance of certain values with the society. As cats has said there are no moderate islamic voices speaking out against them, whether this is because of fear or something deeper we cannot tell, but I judge them by their actions and I think that is a fair appraisal. Muslims are an intolerant group and in their society you would not enjoy freedom of speech

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarr...ou-do-not-repr

Muslims Stand Against ISIS, Too | Junaid Jahangir

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Sunni and Shii clerics in Iraq jointly drafted and distributed a religious edict to over 50,000 mosques declaring ISIS as an un-Islamic terrorist organization. Sheikh Taha al Karkhi, grand preacher in Baghdad, declared that resisting and standing up against ISIS is a religious duty.
Over 80 Muslim intellectuals, activists and religious leaders in India jointly urged the United Nations to hold ISIS accountable for its brutality, which they termed as a "crime against humanity" and "religious cleansing."
Over 100 British Sunni and Shii Imams released a powerful video to urge Muslim youth to stay away from ISIS, which they branded as an illegitimate and vicious group. About 5000 Norwegian Muslims rallied in Oslo against ISIS.
The Caliph of the Ahmadiyyah Muslim community and the Secretary General of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, a group representing 57 countries and 1.4-billion Muslims, also forcefully condemned ISIS. The Indonesian President urgedMuslim leaders to unite their efforts, prohibited Indonesians from joining ISIS and blocked the ISIS Internet sites.
In North America, the two largest Muslim umbrella groups -- Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) -- issuedstatements condemning ISIS. CAIR strongly urged American Imams and other community leaders to speak out against American Muslims traveling abroad to join extremist groups like ISIS.
Conservative and progressive Muslims are united in their condemnation of ISIS.

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World Muslim Congress : Muslims Stand Against ISIS, Too

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Yasir Qadhi, a conservative Muslim leader, stated that the Prophet warned us about groups who would spread bloodshed and yet think of themselves as the best of worshipers. He further mentioned that, "no amount of the evils of American foreign policy can justify the murderous rampage of ISIS and its ilk."
On the progressive side, Mike Ghouse of the World Islamic Congress went so far as to call for drone attacks against ISIS. From Switzerland academic Elham Maneaurged Muslim communities and nations to look inward and vanquish intolerant dogma and regressive politics to remove ISIS.

Muslims for Progressive Values (MPV) USA President, Ani Zonneveld, tweeted that IS does not stand for Islamic State but "International Scum." The eighth annual MPV retreat will also focus on countering supremacist ideologies espoused by groups like ISIS.

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Your appraisal is based in hate and is irrelevant to reality, and UNFAIR. Your hate makes you lazy, just Google and learn. Then reflect HONESTLY with facts not just prejudiced feelings. Then maybe you can choose to reject the side of FOOLS!

And tal just taking up a point in one of those pieces "

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no amount of the evils of American foreign policy

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You are defending those who see your policies as evil, quite a paradox to leap over there and tell me are their appraisals based on hate, why are you not denouncing them? Who is on the side of FOOLS now?

I think the statement of Zonneveld got it wrong "International Scum." should be Islamic Scum does he really thing there are no Syrians and Iraqi fighting for ISIS? Obviously you don't understand that the International scum he speaks of are some american scum fighting for ISIS

I will admit to hatred of the creed. It started as a personal grief in 78. Everything I have studied about Islam since then, from jihad to taqqiyah to submission to misogyny, has only deepened my disgust and loathing. The few good parts were taken verbatim from the Torah.

Show me the new convert to Christianity ,Judaism ,or almost any other religion who signs up to behead ,murder ,rape ,or blow themselves up. This guy in Ottawa isn't the only one. A recent convert in Oklahoma beheaded a woman. WG the guy was a criminal before converting . Obviously converting did not change his behavior for the better .

It is interesting to note that Islam converts criminals in jails as well a radicalising youth, something about it appeals to the criminal mind, it can't be redemption because Islam doesn't offer redemption

I'm with Tom on this one whatever they are doing the outcomes are not good

Yesterday we had a guy hack at police officers with an ax . One officer was hit in the arm and another in the head before the other officers shot and killed the attacker . His name is Zale Thompson. He had posted on social media according to the press comments that "display a hyper-racial focus in both religious and historical contexts, and ultimately hint at his extremist leaning."

That's the pc way to say he posted jihadist rants. He described "jihad as a justifiable response to the oppression of the 'Zionists and the Crusaders." The press claims that authorities are searching to find a motive . lol

In Israel a Palestinian drove his car into a crowd killing a baby . In Quebec another jihadist ran his car over two soldiers in a parking lot , killing one, before being shot dead by police.

What do they all have in common ? They are Islamist attacks occurring days after the Islamic State called for such lone wolf attacks.

No Tom, they are looney criminals who you listen to, and blame whatever god they name to justify their evil. They make you afraid and you hate some more. That's what you haters like Clete have in common, you listen to the message of the evil fringe lunatics, which is in itself crazy as hell. That doesn't justify your fear of the other 90% who do NOT, that you CHOOSE to hate on.

I guess you haters cannot see that by repeating the rantings of lunatics you help the lunatics make you MORE afraid of the wrong thing.

What came first, the chicken or the egg? the mental illness/antisocial mentality or the religion? Any religion can be twisted to justify mayhem.

I'll go with tal's numbers 10% of a billion people. Maybe any religion can be twisted . But we are talking about one that is twisted .
"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."(Manuel II Paleologus 'Dialogue with a Persian')

You can justify killing with the OT, too.

The great debate of the application of good orderly direction, and man's unique gift of choice. It gets screwed up with man's insistence that his divinity is better than another man's. An age old conflict often solved with the swords of both sides Tom, of which your boy Manual II was no stranger either.

For all the years of evolution and progress we all carry baggage that we are reluctant to unpack.

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You can justify killing with the OT, too.

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and how many Jews do these days ? I'll go further ,the best passages of the Quran were lifted almost verbatim from the OT. Then there are the passages based on the words and actions of the religion's founder.

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of which your boy Manual II was no stranger either.

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he defended the Byzantine capital against a 700 year assault on it by the hordes of Muslims.

He was also exiled to the Ottoman Empire as a hostage too, so what? I could list the many conflicts going back to the crusades, neither side had clean hands. That's what wars were back then. Every freakin' body was trying to conquer and control the world. Little progress has been made. SOS!

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Little progress has been made.

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Remarkably that seems to be the case here

Little progress has been made because there is no serious effort to delegitimize the Ideology behind jihadistan . tal keeps talking about KKK. But the KKK has been delegitimized in the nation . The remnants are fringe who would not dare walk down the streets in white sheets because they would be taken down by every other segment of society . It does little use to claim every jihadist attack is the actions of the unstable or deranged . The fact that jihadism attracts the unstable is further indictment on it's ideology .Taking down the Islamic State ,and AQ ,and Boko Harum ,and all the other kindred of Cain are important . But ,it is the ideology that has to be defeated to ultimately win.

That's a wrong analogy there Tom they are the kindred of Ismael, the legacy of Abraham, another man who took matters into his own hands rather than wait for God and the kindred of Abraham fight on. You have to be careful whose advice you take or you might create a monster

Now we have to trace all the begets of the bible?

Abrahamic religions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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The largest Abrahamic religions in chronological order of founding are Judaism, Christianity, and Islam; the Bahá'í Faith is sometimes listed as well.^[9] There are other smaller religions that are also considered Abrahamic like Zoroastrianism.

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I said kindred of Cain because of their murderous ways .

Some have murderous ways Tom, but some do NOT. How would you like to be defined by the murderous ways of your own kindred? (Or your beloved slave holding founders, who wrote ALL men are created equal, yet did NOT extend that equality to ALL men?) Man has a savage past from which he has yet to properly evolve from.

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How would you like to be defined by the murderous ways of your own kindred?

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I judge them by their actions today . The savage past you speak of is on display by the ISLAMIC State .

And we should ignore the savage PRESENT of our own experience with school shootings, and criminals who have abandoned the hoods for local elections?

Or the transgressions of those elected officials who see the light and get another chance to show their family values? You don't have to travel half a world away to find murderous bad behavior.

I'm glad we did not have people with your mentality leading us during WWII .It is regrettable that we have so many of your mindset leading us today. You think we are no better than the jihadists ? I disagree .

My point was that they (and YOU) use the term Islamic, but it's a bald face LIE. The examples I gave to you and Clete, about broad brushing entire populations by the actions of a few make that point.

It is regrettable you or Clete cannot discern between loony criminals who hate, AND kill, and the people who ARE killed. ISIL has killed more Muslims than they have of any other peoples.

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ISIL has killed more Muslims than they have of any other peoples.

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thus my kindred of Cain comment . The Islamic State would not have been able to achieve the level of success they have had without some very powerful backing in the Muslim ranks. I can hear you in 1941 ... not all the Germans are Nazis.

I couldn't agree more with you as the rise of ISIS didn't just happen in a vacuum, or whim. It had a purposeful influx of support from some rich, wealthy, powerful people. They made a monster that is out of control.

All Germans weren't bad or Nazis, as many were deceived, and many more fled. Many died.

Hitler was a monster that was out of control too!

still we had to defeat the whole nation. Same thing with Japan. They were not all part of the Imperial cult . We had to defeat and discredit Shinto.

Defeating ISIS by defeating Islam? Is that your logic?

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We had to defeat and discredit Shinto.

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Naw, we destroyed a few islands with an A Bomb. Would have worked on Hitler too!

really ? and how many Japanese today worship the emperor ?(and no ;I'm not talking about emperor Zero)

Well I see you have finally come around to the solution as you said it worked on the japanese and would have worked on Hitler and it kept the soviets at bay, now which target should we select Racca perhaps? The problem is ISIS is dispersed even if they have the backing of sunni people, Bomb them to show your resolve and they will fade away, the only thing they understand is fear

Why doesn't Australia bomb them?

We are bombing them in Iraq as part of the effort to contain them and push them back but we are not nuclear armed so we can't deliver a decisive airstrike. Like yourselves we have sent advisors to Iraq. We see this threat for what it is Tal both in Iraq/Syria and in the homeland. We have a muslim population and a number of people have gone from here to fight what is disturbing is some of those are from families who have been here a long time. There are parts of the Muslim community who have been a source of problem here for a long time, not only the source of terrorist activity but also organised crime. We are also bordered by one of the largest muslim countries and they are showing an increasing militance with a large military buildup.

As I see it you possess the capability to deliver the same decisive airpower you delivered in Japan, Europe, Iraq, Afghanistan but you appear hamstrung by an inability to separate military necessity from civilian issues. Korbani is a case in point, the population has fled, anyone who remains has questionable loyalties, same with Racca, why haven't you used a far more effective air campaign, even the Kurds cheer when you bomb ISIS in the town

fair question . Most of Caen's historical district was destroyed by Allied bombs during the Normandy campaign. 1150 civilians were killed even after the vast majority had evacuated .

And you don't want to repeat it, strategy is a strange thing, Anaheim was leveled in the interests of taking a bridge, why so concerned about a civilian population? Remember Dresden. Sudden attack of conscience? Or is it that economically you want this to be a protacted war? Maybe it is that we haven't come to grips with ISIS being worse than the NAZI but give us time we will come to the realisation. Maybe it is the fact that they are the enemy of the enemy of your friend?

The fact is shia muslims can't hide from ISIS because the support for ISIS in the sunni muslim community is larger than we know

IS supporters shot man outside Greenacre mosque: Witness claims - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Denied the opportunity to join in the fracas in Syria, ISIS supporters are doing a little home grown terrorism and this is what we can expect anywhere that these people have the ascendency in the community. We thought we were isolated enough for this not to happen here, so did the shia immigrant community, but unless, and until, this evil is stamped out we can expect atrocities to occur and whether you like it or not, or believe it or not, it is in the name of religion, it is religious, exploiting an age old religious division

agree . unfortunately here ,the political leaders call jihadist activity "domestic" or "workplace "violence. The emperor is in complete denial and thinks that the pin prick air strikes are "degrading " the Islamic State .

Oh No Tom hundreds are being killed in this little war, read the press, but casualties won't stop ISIS, they will just take some more of the locals out and shoot them to make sure they have no enemies at their back. Air strikes are a blunt instrument, effective against certain targets but if you want to avoid civilian deaths you have to use different weapons too, get your hands dirty. You are supporting the Kurdish mini states now because it suits you to tweak Assards nose, but you do so at the risk of upsetting your turkish allies. It is hard to fight a war where there are three sides. Have you asked yourself why isn't ISIS fighting Assard with the same ferocity they fight the Kurds? ISIS is being used as an instrument by both Iraq and Syria to destroy enemies of the regime

And I suggest the spread of radical ideas in many communities is only a matter of time

Sectarian tensions high, say Australian Muslim leaders - CNN.com

Let us not think that this is about freedom in any form, it is about an ideology that has at its centre age old conflicts about something that most of us would today consider something that is not worth fighting about. Muslims were not immune to their schisms and that we should still see that fight being carried on thirteen hundred years later is ridiculous, telling us that if nothing else, muslims are primitives.

on a slightly different but related note, this week we laid to rest Gough Whitlam and today the tensions we are talking about in Australia are a direct result of his policies for it was his government that encouraged migration from the middle east and other parts of asia. Like many in Australia I was over his policies in 1975 when he was oustered from government but the reforms lived on to haunt us today. Take a lesson radical reformers you don't know where your policies will lead

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News...ir-strike.html

I expect we could put that report up there with the assassination of OBL and it is likely to have much more impact on the fight against terrorism but we can expect that as with OBL it will drive the leadership into hiding. You can try to cut the head off the snake and hope it works but this is a group who have had that head cut off more than once. Setbacks give the forces gathering to fight ISIS opportunity to organise and press any advantage it gives them, as the french say viva la victorie and with estimates of their numbers revised down that might be quicker than first expected