You just keep thinking Iran is a stabilizing factor in the ME. They are not and have sponsored Assad in Syria, and Hezbollah for many years.

Iran-backed Hezbollah warns it may intervene in Syria war - World News

Try and keep up with the bad guys Clete.

You misunderstand me tal Iran doesn't want to engage in a war or have a war on its doorstep, and yes they may assist shiite groups, such as Hamas or Hezbollah. I see that no different than the US arming groups opposed to Assard, and your whinning as the pot calling the kettle black. There are proxy wars being carried on in the middle east. If Hezbollah gets more involved than it already is it might get its arse kicked in the frey. Bahrain has named them as a group that should be dealt with signalling a widening of the conflict, so the US would be wise to question the agendas of those who joined the coalition. The reality is stability in Syria is in everyone's interest even if it means Assard stays for a short time. The US needs to learn from its experience in Iraq, regime change doesn't mean better, just a different tyrant

There were terrorists in the world before we went to Iraq, and the middle east has been at war before your island got "civilized". You kill me when you whine so much what the US needs to learn, when you have so much to learn yourself. Doesn't matter who the government is. You have to deal with whatever government is there.

Now go sell China some more dirt to choke on.

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and neutralize support for Assad in Syria from Iran, who is shaking in their boots over Obama's precision bombing in Syria.

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nahh ,the emperor called Assad and asked his permission before the attacks . Even our arming the so called FSA will backfire if our goal is to use them as ground forces against the Islamic State . The FSA will instead turn their America arms on the Assad regime.
Iran and Russia's ally will have his a$$ pulled out of the fire by this . And while all this is happening ,the centrifuges still whirl away making the enriched uranium needed for the 12ers to join the nuclear club.

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If Hezbollah gets more involved than it already is it might get its arse kicked in the frey.

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it already is .... that is why they didn't harass Israel's northern border during the latest Hamas war.

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so the US would be wise to question the agendas of those who joined the coalition.

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indeed .

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The US needs to learn from its experience in Iraq, regime change doesn't mean better, just a different tyrant

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the lesson to learn is that you can't declare a war over ....the other side has a say in it too . the lesson to learn is that you withdraw before the job is over then ugly consequences occur .

Congress could always come back, and exercise its duty under the constitution, which they ran from when they were here. They have been running from this issue for two freakin' years now.

Forget your congress tal they are a spent force in this exercise, do you know what consensus means well I hear that it exists for this exercise, all someone has to do is shout and they aren't opposed to war.

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There were terrorists in the world before we went to Iraq, and the middle east has been at war before your island got "civilized". You kill me when you whine so much what the US needs to learn, when you have so much to learn yourself. Doesn't matter who the government is. You have to deal with whatever government is there.

Now go sell China some more dirt to choke on.

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Yes terrorists have existed for a long time with many masks, terrorists started WWI and the imperfect redistribution of power in the middle east set the scene for what we have today. You seem to think that just because we are new on the scene we shouldn't call you out on your meddling. The fact is we have populations who have been displaced by wars in the Middle East and they may want to start them up here, the lebanese have been a troublesome population ever since they have been here. "you have deal with wahteever government there is" your words, so stop trying to depose Assard and support stopping the war in Syria, not fueling it by supporting dissidents and terrorists. As to my island being "civilised" what civilisation there is is being eroded but it far more civilised than that haven of war mongering you call Washington. This is a peaceful place, not given to war, and we will trade with whom ever we chose without bothering to ask your permission

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Congress could always come back, and exercise its duty under the constitution, which they ran from when they were here. They have been running from this issue for two freakin' years now

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what is your obsession with Congress ? They did exactly what you guys dream they will do.....pass bills in support of the emperor without any debate . Did the Bush war appropriations ever get passed without debate and a whole bunch of quid pro quo pork added to them ?

Probably the same obsession you guys have with repealing the ACA, impeaching the prez, and investigating Benghazi. Then run from a debate and vote on war.

although it is not a requirement ,traditionally Presidents have gone before Congress to ask for a war declaration or resolution. Why doesn't the emperor ?

Why doesn't he call it a war ? Why does he go out of his way to make the false claim that he has AQ on the run when all the various groups he is bombing are AQ or offshoots ? Why is he abandoning the "war of necessity " ,after he already prematurely abandoned the "war of choice " ? Why is the nobel peace prize recipient suddenly going to modernize our nuclear arsenal when in the past he was for disarming ? Could it be that he is finally beginning to realize that he was just plain wrong about everything ?

Realities; Tom, Russia is resurgent, and AQ far from beaten, militant Islam has mutated into a virilent disease. A wise man changes tack when the wind shifts

we shot close to 50 Tomahawk cruise missiles since the air war has begun anew . The emperor's defense budget for next year calls for the purchase of 100 . Guess after we shoot our load in the Levant ,the emperor's arsenal will be "smart diplomacy " .

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/c...islamic-state/

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...rcraft-Weapons

Tom you have to have a excuse to use up all that old ordinance, it helps the local economy and at last the F22 had some combat proving. Obama will be able to buy as many Tomahawks as he needs but they are a blunt instrument, more useful when you have a formal structure to target.. I like the pictures of the attack on the car park, a bit hit and miss, they should have used a Tomahawk with a tactical nuke, that would have got ISIS attention. It will be interesting to see if air strikes make any difference in the battle for Korbani

If you are going to have a spare aircraft carrier you should think of your allies

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and at last the F22 had some combat proving

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it's a kick a$$ jet .Much better than the F35 boondoggle .

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I like the pictures of the attack on the car park, a bit hit and miss, they should have used a Tomahawk with a tactical nuke, that would have got ISIS attention

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I like the pix of one going through the 4th floor window of an empty building . (don't forget ;we warned them before the attack commenced ) .

What we are doing is what the Israelis call "mowing the lawn" .The emperor calls it "degrading ISIL" .I prefer the Scipio Aemilianus solution .

So you are in favour of boots on the ground hand to hand street fighting and bulldozing the city, my solution is simpler, the Japanese solution isn't used often enough but it converts a radical to a believer in peace very quickly

you mean as in General Curtis Lemay's solution ? One rains fire from the sky and did not accomplish his goals until nukes were used. The other salts the earth (or in General Sherman's case ;cuts a swath of destruction that takes years to repair ) . Mowing the lawn means you have to go back and fight another day. Nobody thinks that nukes are an option ,or that a conventional air campaign alone can accomplish a serious military mission.

Soften them up, while you rally the troops. Let the armchair generals holler. The real generals can recommend, but the CIC, gives the orders.

The CIC is a pu$$y, this group understands only one language, and to get the job done requires very strong measures, not this tell them I'm going to bomb them crap.

soften them up lol . We send million dollar Tomahawks to air burst over a cell tower so it won't destroy a building . They soften us up by decapitation with a rusty dull knife.

Like I said let the armchair generals holler.

Former Defense Secs Leon Panetta and Robert Gates ,Gen. Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Ray Odierno, the Army chief of staff and former top US commander in Iraq ,Marine Corps Gen. James Mattis, the former commander of CENTCOM......all armchair Generals who have taken public positions against the current strategery .

They are military generals and make MILITARY recommendations, and the prez makes decisions. Not the generals. They don't make policy, or political recommendations. YOU, ME, and Clete are armchair generals.

Yep and we recommend various policy settings and have about as much influence as anyone

At the risk of being thought alarmist there is something fundamentaly wrong with Islam when converts feel they have to demonstrate their religiousity in this manner

Oklahoma beheading: Fired US worker beheads colleague and stabs another before being shot - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

There is a high proportion of muslims committing acts of violence, why? And gross violence, atrocities. What is it about this religion that incites it's followers, however few to behave in this manner? Is it a magnet for the deranged or a religion that contains such paradox that a deranged person is attracted to violence?
We are for freedom of religion but how long can we support that view with this in our midst. Should people be free to believe things that are fundamentally opposed to the safety of the community

I seriously doubt the proportion of bad Muslims is any higher than any other religion, if you can call insane behavior religious!

Oh it's religious all right the same religious zeal that existed at the beginning of Islam, the same religious zeal that brought you the crusades and the inquisition, the same zeal that brought you nazism

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I seriously doubt the proportion of bad Muslims is any higher than any other religion, if you can call insane behavior religious!

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Your kidding right ?

So you don't recognize bad Christians, just bad Muslims, who you claim are all Muslims? Yeah there are no extremist violent Christians. Are you serious?

I won't defend ANY loonies, Christian, Muslim, or Jews, or Atheists. Why are you picking and choosing based on religion? Clete is highly prejudiced, are you?

Should we also equate all school shooters with white men too? Or the Klan, or Aryan Nation?

what I don't see is armies of extremist Christians fighting for and occupying territory in the name of Christianity .

Of course you don't. When Klansman take off their hoods, they are mayors, sheriffs, cops, city councilmen, state reps, good old boys on ranches, shopkeepers, or lest we forget cult leaders, and preachers. They probably go to church every Sunday too!

You never could see your own loonies, just everybody else's. ISIL has a large swath of territory the size of Maryland, but just in the south in America, there are plenty of small rural towns the good old boys have had for centuries. They will serve you cheesy grits every morning, and drag your black a$$ down a dark country road at night.

You need to get out more.

you are stuck in the 50s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s#United_State

• American Freedom Party, formerly known as the American Third Position Party, is an American political party which promotes white supremacy.^{[28][29][30][31]} It was founded in 2010, and defines its principal mission as representing the political interests ofwhite Americans.^[32]

• Aryan Nations, is a white supremacist neo-Nazi organization founded in the 1970s by Richard Girnt Butler as an arm of the Christian Identity group known as the Church of Jesus Christ-Christian. The Federal Bureau of Investigation has called Aryan Nations a "terrorist threat",^[33] and the RAND Corporation has called it the "first truly nationwide terrorist network" in the US.^[34]
• Council of Conservative Citizens, is an American political organization that supports a large variety of conservative and paleoconservative causes in addition to white separatism.^[35]
• Creativity Movement, (formerly known as the World Church of the Creator) is a white supremacist politico organization that advocates the racialist religion, Creativity. Mainly religious rather than political, the radical Creativity Movement, founded by Ben Klassen in 1973, worships the white race itself rather than any deity, and advocates a radical form of white supremacism known asRAHOWA.
• EURO, is a white separatist organization in the United States. Led by former Louisiana state representative and presidential primary candidate David Duke, it was founded in 2000.^[36]
• Ku Klux Klan, often abbreviated KKK and informally known as The Klan, is the name of three distinct past and present right-wing^[37] organizations in the United States, which have advocated extremist reactionary currents such as white supremacy andnationalism. The Klan is classified as a hate group by the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center.^[38] It is estimated to have between 5,000 and 8,000 members, split among dozens of different - and often warring - organizations that use the Klan name. as of 2012.^[39]

^{I told you to get out more.}

your moral equivalent mindset exposes you .it is as nonsensical as the emperor comparing the atrocities of the Islamic State with the death of a teen in Ferguson by a police officer . But even if I accepted even a smidgen of your logic ;has there been over 20,000 terror attacks by Christian groups in the last decade ?

Now you want a timeline of lunatic evil? It exists in every culture and religion tribe and nation. Overt, covert, what's the difference? Saying one is worse than another is what defies logic, and my point was you point a finger at others, and ignore/deny the four fingers pointing back at YOU. That's my logic.

Me, I acknowledge the lunatic evil exists everywhere, whether others deny it, or NOT! You pick a decade, like Christian loonies have gotten better. Quite the contrary.

Affter what you have just put forward I'm glad I live here

I just copy and pasted the facts Clete, but I submit to you the same point I made to Tom of your own fingerpointing. Rose colored glasses and selective hating doesn't change the fact of all humans everywhere have the same behaviors.

The Skinhead International: Australia

Limits of freedom of speech in Australia

"The national Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commission released a report in 2004 documenting increased levels of discrimination against Arabs and Muslims in Australia following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack in the US and the terrorist bombing in Bali in October 2002. Muslim women were particular targets of physical violence carried out by strangers. Such incidents included having dogs set upon them, attempts to run over them, being spat at, having things thrown at them from cars and having their hajibs [sic] pulled off. The victims of such attacks often fear leaving their homes."

"However, harassment and discrimination has also been directed at people mistaken as Muslims, such as Christian Arabs and Sikh men wearing turbans. In one case an Egyptian Christian woman was knocked to the ground and needed hospital treatment after a man threw stones at her from a passing car." ₃

oh brother ! That's why we are doomed to lose this ideological war . You think we are no different .

Did you mean Christians and Muslim? No there is NO difference that I can see. Now if you mean good humans and bad ones, yes there is a huge difference.

Can you grasp that concept?

let me try and grasp the concept you put forward Tal you think we are the same as you are, but we are not our ethos is different, subtle though it may be there are differences which mean we see things in an entirely different way. You think that muslims should be welcome in our society, but the only real race riots we have had here are when muslims rioted. The muslim populations we have here are the result of accepting refugees from the middle east and Afghanistan and some of the push factors have been american through their interventions there. They are not the result of our invasions of those places, so yes we have a view of what is happening that is different to you. What it means is we have to deal with the troubled edge of a displaced muslim society

Is there a difference between a society based on Christian values and one based on muslim values? There very obviously is, the muslim would let you got to hell in a hand cart and give you a push to help you on your way, the Christian would try to prevent that from happening. Christians are not immune to the stresses that the current situation places us in but muslims have taken a course to make themselves obvious and there is a consequence of an "in your face" attitude

I didn't think you would get it Clete, but you have make the predictable excuses not to understand. Different ethos? Really? Your hate isn't from fear but false superiority. You don't want to factor the similarities, because the thought of being like "them" blows your whole mind. Too bad, you could use the freedom of not proving yourself right, by making "them" wrong. Probably easier for you to just hate.

That's lazy as hell though.