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All the major religions are undergoing this transition from the old ways of doing things to a newer more relevant version that sheds strict adherence to dogma and tradition and elevates the preachers of that dogma and tradition to high authority. Some are changing faster than others, and some are resisting that change more forcefully than others.
Changes bring challenges for sure, but no change is an instant success, more of a slow process. For some too slow, and for others way too fast.
a religion without dogmas . hmmm what a concept . that would be the religion of secular relativism .
I specifically wrote strict adherence to dogma and tradition not the absence of it.
You are controversial to yourself? First you state:
,Quote:
...you can't interfere in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation can you?
Then you state:
Or you think that Iraq is not a sovereign nation?Quote:
...going into Iraq to root out this evil may be high, but it is entirely justified...
If you are still confused as to what to do, think about this: going to anyone's home uninvited to settle the things the way you like, would it be the same as letting someone uninvited to your place to settle the things the way they like!
This will help to any reasonable person.
so adherence to dogma is optional ?
why would someone be a member of a religion if they didn't believe in the religion's dogmas ?
You obviously want to ignore the word STRICT, or don't want to acknowledge the power of the imposer of that strictness
You see Tom you have to accept responsibility for what you have done, Saddam was your stooge and he ran amoak forcing you to deal with him and in the process...Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
The emperor told Chucky Todd that “We are going to have to find effective partners on the ground to push back against ISIL,”..... “And the moderate coalition there is one that we can work with. We have experienced working with many of them. They have been to some degree outgunned and outmanned, and that's why it's important for us to work with our friends and allies to support them more effectively.”
umm.... that would be the Sunni tribes that helped up defeat AQI during the Surge and the Arab Awakening at the end of Bush's term. You know ;the allies we abandoned when the emperor decided to cut and run .
“It is absolutely critical that we have Arab states, and specifically Sunni-majority states, that are rejecting the kind of extremist nihilism that we're seeing out of ISIL, that say, 'That is not what Islam is about,' and are prepared to join us actively in the fight,”
ummm...those would be the states we turned our back on when we supported the Arab Spring movement .
As I've said before you have to accept responsibility for what you have done
Kings Cross bouncer Mohammad Ali Baryalei identified as senior ISIL recruiter
I have said for years that muslims represent a fifth column in western societies. We have allowed these people to immigrate under the guise of being refugees but they are once again proven to be liars and still tied to the centuries old ideas. It is hard not to brand muslims as insincere in protecting the country in which they live, but actively supporting foreign wars is not living peacefully. How quickly can recruiting fighters for a foreign war turn to creating and recruiting for a terror cell and launcing attacks. I expect that if we can uncover the activities of one then there are more with similar ideas and intent. This is a maligant cancer we must root out in our societies
To reinforce your point.... on May 24 ,a man walked into a Jewish museum in Brussels ,and cold and calculated ,gunned down 4 people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uiFaRFvX0I
May 30, French authorities arrested a French citizen, Mehdi Nemmouche for the shootings.His AK-47 was wrapped with a flag of the Islamic State ,and it has been confirmed that he had been in Syria in 2013.
A French photojournalist who had been held hostage in Syria confirmed that Nemmouche was one of his captors and torturers .
Jewish museum shooting suspect 'is Islamic State torturer' | World news | theguardian.com
The French deny paying ransom for the release of Heinin ; But we do know that western states have paid $125 million in ransom in the last 5 years ....presumably the Islamic State has been getting their cut .
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/21/wo...oley.html?_r=1
We already know that there are jihadists with American passports in the battle . Some of them will eventually make it back to the states with murdererous intent.
if you know this cancel their passport and consign them to the hellhole of their own making, this is what we are doing
in the works ,if Harry Reid allows a Senate vote ...or the emperor doesn't veto .
GOP bills would revoke passports for people involved with ISIS | TheHill
Your processes take forever, you should give your executive authority to act without this constant consultation process
I think Obama said it all, basically we will bomb you back into the stone age, that is if you have emerged from the stone age, so I expect there will be a lot of ISIS living in caves which seems to be the retreat of AQ and it's ilk and when he is finished vast parts of Iraq and Syria will be more of a desert than they are now. Then comes the bigger problem, what to do with Assard, will he go the way of Malaki in the interests of his people or will he hang tight.. he could do a Putin as Malaki has done and take a lesser post for a few years
I think this is a message ISIS will understand, it has the same basic concept they exist with, this planet isn't big enough for both of us, so will they go out in a flash, massed suicide bombings or will they go with a wimper and retreat back to where they came from? A place near to each of us
yeah all executives lament that they don't have dictatorial powersQuote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
imagine FDR saying " we will degrade the Nazis until they are a managable problem" . The emperor;King Putt , lost me when he said that the Islamic State was not about Islam.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
If you haven't figured it out yet ,the emperor's strategery is the kick the can down the road and hope he doesn't have to do anything until his term is up.
Tom the Nazi had an army of 6 million maybe more, these idiots have a few thousand unprofessional recruits, you have a long history of targeting militants with drones, etc, this is just more of the same in the meanwhile some professional soldiers might gather enough courage to fight for their country
you were listening to a different speech than I heard. We brag about blowing up some Humvees we gave the Iraqi Army . Remember when Bush had a coalition of 35 nations and the libs said "that's not a coalition ! " . What will the emperor's coalition consist of ? A bunch of ME nations that sponsor terrorism .Quote:
when he is finished vast parts of Iraq and Syria will be more of a desert than they are now.
Interesting question in light of how the chess pieces are lining up. Presumably our taking on the Islamic State serves the interest of Assad ;Putin ,and the 12ers in Tehran . Why ? Because they all want to prevent a gas pipeline from the Qatar Pars field through Syria to Turkey ...where Turkey would be the central hub for gas export to Europe.Quote:
Then comes the bigger problem, what to do with Assard, will he go the way of Malaki in the interests of his people or will he hang tight.. he could do a Putin as Malaki has done and take a lesser post for a few years
They would prefer a pipeline to traverse from the Iranian and Iraqi fields ;to Syria ...where Syria could be the central hub for export of gas to Europe.
Congress has declared no wars, or taken any actions except in front of a camera, and comparing thugs, and criminals to a major religion, is like comparing Jim Jones, or David Koresh, to Christianity.
The agenda of governments and rich guys have little to do with the actions of loonies but wingers are famous for arranging dots to fit the master conspiracy theory. I have no doubt though of the collusion of rich guys to use the crazy guys to gain a few bucks though.
Been going on in the ME for thousands of years, and the Christians have been knee deep in the crap as well.
the AUMF was a declaration of war and still appliesQuote:
Congress has declared no wars, or taken any actions except in front of a camera,
That's why the west will lose . We have this moral equivalence syndrome.Quote:
Been going on in the ME for thousands of years, and the Christians have been knee deep in the crap as well.
it's amazing how easy it is to arrange those dots.Quote:
The agenda of governments and rich guys have little to do with the actions of loonies but wingers are famous for arranging dots to fit the master conspiracy theory. I have no doubt though of the collusion of rich guys to use the crazy guys to gain a few bucks though.
When you look at Russia's contributions it becomes even more apparent . Russia wants to be the energy supplier to Europe . A pipeline connecting ME gas through Turkey ;the proposed "Qatar -Turkey" pipeline (especially if it is also tied into the planned pipeline from the South Caucasus through Turkey.... the proposed "Nabucco line " ) would break their virtual monopoly . An alternate pipeline , the 'Iran -Iraq -Syria ' "Friendship Pipeline" ,would cut Turkey out . Syria would be the energy hub ,either exporting it direct to Europe ,or running a pipeline under the Mediterranean to a European country ,with a refinery built in Damascus . Russia would not have direct control ...but with Syria being a client state ,Moscow would have direct influence on the supply. This is why Russia built up its naval presence at the Syrian ports of Latakia and Tartus.
Assad in 2009 refused to go along with the Qatar -Turkey plan ,and instead inked deals with Russia and Iran in 2010 . That set the stage for the Syrian Civil War.
BTW ; the Nabucco line is slated to run through Azerbaijan, Georgia, to Turkey. Russia has already taken out a slice of Georgia . Their actions in Ukraine are in a large part conducted to protect their gas pipeline to Europe . Expect Putin to set his eyes on Azerbaijan next . Russia's economy is critically dependent on it's energy exports.
Yes we are all being manipulated by Putin or is that Rasputin but his reaction to recent sanctions on the energy sector is interesting, like he thinks your efforts are insignificant. The winter will tell, when he has the opportunity to switch on some sanctions of his own
judging from our experience with sanctions against Saddam's Iraq ,Castro's Cuba , and the 12ers in Tehran ,I find sanctions to be largely ineffective in a world where so many are willing to violate them . What Putin is trying to accomplish is a monopoly on energy supplies to Europe ;and our "war " ,"counter-terrorism ","kinetic actions"; whatever you want to call them to "defeat" ,"degrade to a manageable level" , against "ISIS" ,"ISIL", the "Islamic State ",whatever puts us in alignment with the powers aligned with Putin's goals .
But the Islamic State is becoming way too big a threat to ignore.
Yes winter begins early in northern Europe .That is why it has calmed down ,and they have begun serious negotiations .
I doubt Putin finds ISIS little more than an inconvenience, they are militant muslim and he would be strongly opposed to such a group and would want them eliminated before their ideas spread to Chechyna. No one wants to see muslim militants successful. No doubt Putin would like to woo Iraq back into his block.
Sanctions are having an effect on Russia and Iran but they won't cause economic collapse because these countries haven't been stupid enough to transfer their manufacturing capabilities to China. ISIS is a serious threat to Iraq, they have not been successful in beating Assard and now they are fighting on two fronts, a serious strategic error, they have also pissed off the most powerful nations, so they are more of an inconveniece than a threat and people should be careful about self fulfilling propecies
Australia has announced a deployment of men and aircraft to the middle east specifically to combat ISIS, it seems we have yielded to an american request, as we are to be part of a larger force it will be interesting to see what the composition of that force will be, particularly since it is unlikely to contain americans
too late ,they were active in ISIS over a year ago.Quote:
I doubt Putin finds ISIS little more than an inconvenience, they are militant muslim and he would be strongly opposed to such a group and would want them eliminated before their ideas spread to Chechyna.
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/pers...ilitants-.html
No doubt ....but until something changes ,Iraq is under the influence of the 12ers .Quote:
No doubt Putin would like to woo Iraq back into his block.
The centrifuges still spin in Iran . The sanctions have hurt some of Putin's cronies .However ,as long as Russia controls the energy supply to Europe ,they will not have a big enough impact to make him change policies.Quote:
Sanctions are having an effect on Russia and Iran but they won't cause economic collapse because these countries haven't been stupid enough to transfer their manufacturing capabilities to China. ISIS is a serious threat to Iraq, they have not been successful in beating Assard and now they are fighting on two fronts, a serious strategic error, they have also pissed off the most powerful nations, so they are more of an inconveniece than a threat and people should be careful about self fulfilling prophecies
I can just hear the talk in 1920s Germany ...those Nazis are an inconvenience .. You sound like the emperor calling them Jayvees .
I said that Putin found them an inconveniemce, if you want a WWII comparison Stalin was an inconvience to Hitler, something that had to be dealt with. I don't have as much problem with Iran as you do, they represent a check to sunni muslim power, even if they threaten Israel. With that tension in place no one is actually fighting a war with Israel and the way this is going you may actually find them convenient
I would have no issue with Iran if it wasn't run by the Shia version of jihadistan . The 'Green Movement' revolt against them in 2009 was the one popular uprising in the region I supported . Of course that was the one the emperor completely turned his back on.
Your politics are too internally focused, you want to grow up and let the man do the job, instead you have a lot of armchair heroes second guessing everyone
you want me to grow up ? The emperor's disengagement ,naivety, and disinterest in foreign affairs is a main reason we are at this point. We can live with a President who goes through on the job training .But emperor King Putt is only interested in improving his golf swing .
Your political system breeds this insular attitude with its focus on the electoral cycle. If that cycle brought renewal as it was intended that would be good but all it does is entrench a dog in the manger attitude
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