come on now, admit it, you don't want immigrants, you want emmigrants

If they could read and write and were even moderately well educated, as is needed in today's world. It might be a little different. Most of them can barely read and write their own language, much less ours..

well look at the potential for growth in an education program and your under performing educators wouldn't have to work harder their standards already exceed expectations, you could educate them to go back and lift the IQ of both countries a win-win

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Tal, your "fair immigration policies" are just as ineffective as Tom's "restricting immigration" because neither viewpoint addresses the cause of the problem. The INS has made it impossible for legal immigration applications to be processed in any sort of reasonable amount of time. The 10 year figure officially used is reasonable, except that filing the application now takes three years, getting it accepted now takes another two (unlawfully, it's supposed to be accepted if no action is taken within 90 days), and the whole process starts from zero if a comma is misplaced or an accent mark faces the wrong way. Tal can argue that Govcorp has designed the process to not work that way and Tom can argue that the bloated bureaucracy has made the legitimate process untenable. You'd both be correct, but the current legal process is causing the illegal one.

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yes Tal builds that strawman that my opposition to illegal immigration = opposition to immigration. The truth is that I have no issue with streamlining the process.
But there is no denying that the human tragedy unfolding with the wave of children from Central America is a direct result of all these 'Dream Act ' proponents. While media in Honduras El Salvadore and Guatemala tout that the time to run the gauntlet of the Mexican badlands is now ;they are being told amnesty is there for the taking if they make it . There has been NO serious attempt by the administration to counter this pr push. Quite the opposite .... the US EMBASSY in Guatemala has a link to a speech by the emperor stating that our immigration system is broken.

Tal sees immigration laws as restrictions to immigration . I don't . I see them as the only rational response to address the demand

abandon yourselves to history, you cannot stop those masses, you sold them the dream and now it's going to bite you on the bum, that's what you get for the B/S

Coyotes making money have nothing to do with the "dreamers" at all and these mostly kids don't even qualify for that status. I think it's the failure of the congress to identify and address these processing issues more effectively, and lets face it, they have addressed very few issues in the last few years, not just immigration. Look around, everybody is running from something, or other around the world seeking a safe haven from wars, gangs, and weak ineffective governance.

Processing people is but a symptom of a much larger global problem we haven't seen since the world wars. At least we haven't paid much attention to it. The root cause is basic poverty, and that's widespread in large pockets across the globe. We have the same firestorm brewing here in the Americas as we have in the middle east, and the far east.

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seeking a safe haven from ... weak ineffective governance.

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Why in the world would they think the U.S. would provide one? Depending on which side of the aisle you sit on, the other side blocks everything. Tal's Republican House versus Tom's Harry Reid Senate really does add up to "weak ineffective governance."

let us try to rap this up in a nice neat bundle, you have laws therefore it is incumbent upon the administration to enforce those laws, should they fail then you have the ballot box. You don't need more laws so saying there is a stalemate is just a copout

we have laws . Time to enforce them.

we are in full agreement Tom

The laws have flaws, and enforcement of immigration laws have a lower priority than some would wish and are undermanned, and underfunded.

Immigration Reform in President Obama's FY 2015 Budget | Insights | American Action Forum

Republicans Block Ploy To Get Immigration Reform Into Budget

yes every thing is underfunded until it becomes a priority austerity is a bltch how does it feel to be a third world country unable to protect your borders

You tell us, since you can't stop the flow of immigrants either, or process them any faster. Or guard your detention centers any better.

We know our Dems . Children crossing the border ? Time to lower the voting age.

And who was it... Barbara Boxer or was it Nancy Pelosi that spewed off about allowing Illegals their "Constiutional RIGHT to vote" not all that aweful long ago ... this is why they don't want votor ID's... so all these illegals as well as the NEW illegals can vote for them.

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You tell us, since you can't stop the flow of immigrants either, or process them any faster. Or guard your detention centers any better.

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your inward turned media advising you, is it? we have had no illegal immigrant boats for six months, we have begun shutting some detention centres. You can't process someone who deliberately destroys their documents, and please tell me how you guard these centres from internally organised riots, the fact is the locals don't like the attitude of the detainees, whereas all you get is the sheep. You see the way it works to stop them is you can't get on a plane without a passport and a visa, if you come by boat illegally, you will not be resettled here and you will be placed in detention and if you behave in a criminal manner you will have your visa cancelled

Everyone needs to take it as serious as Malta does... they have been sinking every boat heading their way before they reach their coastal waters.

We need to shoot anyone crossing the border anywhere that's NOT an accepted controlled crossing point.

yes guard towers and machine guns is the answer, now how do you stop the tunnels?

You stop tunnels with ground penatrating radar and with seismic detection devices. Shutting down the boarder isnt rocket science but it does take determination that up until now one side has been resisting.

determination, yes, but if you have laws why are they not enforced, does it take an executive order to get anything done. You say one side has been resisting but it isn't as though the illegal immigrant population didn't grow during the republican years too. Was sleepy lax on illegals too. No the problem is bigger

Bill Summary & Status - 113th Congress (2013 - 2014) - S.744 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

A Guide to S.744: Understanding the 2013 Senate Immigration Bill | Immigration Policy Center

We seem to be waiting on the House. Oh that's controlled by REPUBLICANS.

That is an excuse Tal, what you seem to be saying is there are no laws and you need new ones. Perhaps the Republicans like the laws the way they are, or maybe they are just being obstinate, either way as I have said before GOYA

Tal... there is this basic legal requirement that all bills that require spending that will come from the federal buget to originate in the HOUSE... not the Senate.

And Prince Harry Ried has been blocking almost all of them writen, voted on and passed by the house since the Republicans won control of the house.....Right ...REPUBLICANS control the house....not the democraps. Harry and Barry the brothas of a different motha don't dictate to them.

the politics of obstruction this is why they say congress is the opposite of progress

Here it's the Senate that blocks any progress on any matter...

One man who has delusions of having godlike omnipotence who probibly wanks off to a poster of his messiah. Namely Harry Ried.

Your Senate is not the only obstructionist body in the universe, it appears to be part of your particular bi-camerial form of government. This is what happens when the electorial system misaligns the distribution of power, which it seems is a deliberate part of the design to prevent progress or change. In order to overcome this you have to have a massive majority

As it should be... it prevents meglomaniacs like Obama from behaving like an Emporer and ruling by decree.

But understand... the Bicameral part (house and Senate) are only 1/3 of the three branches of government that by the constitution are coequal. Not subservient to the other two. Legilative, Executive and Judicial branches.

But you keep telling us he is ruling by decree, please make up your mind, either he is or he isn't. I understand the system of government we implemented a version of it a hundred years on and changed some of the less attractive parts, however we failed to understand that a Senate can be obstructionist no matter how it is structured

we also changed the executive structure so that the executive can be sacked triggering an election

THe Justice Department is owned by Obama lock stock and barrel... they have absolutely no desire to uphold the laws or do anything to stem Obamas abuse of power.

Now as far as his "decree" he has been abusing... when a Republican wins the next election... one simple executive order can and will simple end every one of Obamas executive orders... because they are not laws... they don't have to be relealed like laws would have to be.

YOu have a parlamentary system and we don't... they might have similarities... but also have a lot of differences. And the ability to "obstruct" something is there by design... to slow something stupid from being railroaded through that would be difficult to change in the future.

THe mere fact some party does obstruct (The Democrats forget how often THEY pulled this stunt in the past) doesn't mean the fact the ability exists is bad... it serves a very good purpose, when its not abused.

And just not doing exectly what the other party demands be done... isn't obstructing. Refusing to let anything passed bu one side of the house see the light of day or even a vote PURELY because it was written by the other party... as Prince HArry has been doing, is what triely defines obstructionism.

If they were heard, and brought ot a vote and failed because of insufficient votes is one thing... refusing to allow them to get to a discussion or vote based on ONE persons prejudice... is another.

THe saving grace is When the Repbulicans win in a year and a half....Eric holder is going to be unemployed and likely brought up on charges, and hopefully so will Obama.....because neither one will be abusing their office to perpetrate the crimes any longer.

yes smoothy a parliamentary system does have advantages, democracy is preserved for a longer time, it can be usurped by a massive majority allowing bad laws to be passed on a whim; to wit our Carbon Tax and Mining Tax as a well as a number of other bad decisions made by a socialist government that the bi-camerial system protects but it can stop some bad ideas

http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/06...-escorted-u-s/


DHS to Pay for Illegal Immigrants to be Escorted into U.S.

Posted on June 19, 2014 by Paul Joseph Watson
Minors up to age of 17 to be brought in “with dignity and respect” at taxpayer expense



http://hw.infowars.com/wp-content/up...614illegal.jpg


The Department of Homeland Security is set to pay for illegal minors up to the age of 17 to be escorted into the United States, according to a new solicitation posted at FedBizOpps.

Entitled 'Escort Services for Unaccompanied Alien Children', the solicitation reads;

ICE [Immigration and Customs Enforcement] is seeking the services of a responsible vendor that shares the philosophy of treating all UAC with dignity and respect, while adhering to standard operating procedures and policies that allow for an effective, efficient, and incident free transport. The Contractor shall provide unarmed escort staff, including management, supervision, manpower, training, certifications, licenses, drug testing, equipment, and supplies necessary to provide on-demand escort services for non-criminal/non-delinquent unaccompanied alien children ages infant to 17 years of age, seven (7) days a week, 365 days a year. Transport will be required for either category of UAC or individual juveniles, to include both male and female juveniles. There will be approximately 65,000 UAC in total: 25% local ground transport, 25% via ICE charter and 50% via commercial air.

The post does not explain how ICE arrived at the figure of 65,000 children, nor does it clear up why 50% of the illegal minors are arriving via commercial air. The DHS intends to award the chosen vendor(s) 5 year fix priced contracts.The program to use taxpayer money to escort illegal minors into the United States dovetails with a recent Infowars exclusive concerning how South Texas Church groups are transporting countless illegals into the United States before letting them go “wherever they want to go.”Non-profit groups and churches are chauffeuring illegal immigrants from a bus station in McAllen, Texas before giving them temporary shelter and later releasing them onto the streets.Infowars reporters witnessed children and their mothers, primarily consisting of illegals from Guatemala, being picked up throughout the day by vans marked TFC (the Family Church), before being driven to nearby facilities.An employee of the organization admitted to Infowars that once the illegals are taken into temporary care, where they enjoy hot showers, food and a place to sleep, they are subsequently released and allowed to go “wherever they want to go.”It subsequently emerged that the U.S. Customs and Border Patrol was paying for bus tickets and vouchers in order to help the illegals be transported into the country.The revelation arrives in the aftermath of reports that the Rio Grande Valley has experienced an “endless surge” of immigrants attempting to illegally cross the border.Facebook @ https://www.facebook.com/paul.j.watson.71
FOLLOW Paul Joseph Watson @ https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet*********************Paul Joseph Watson is the editor at large of Infowars.com and Prison Planet.com.

hey what's the problem we pay illegal immigrants to go home

If we were to pay anything... we should pay them to leave... not come here.

I have a truck. Can I be a GS-16 Coyote?

How much would we get paid if we drive them all the way through and drop them off at the Canadian Border? I hear the Northern Territories could use some settlers.

now you are thinking, just image trailer loads of new settlers for Canada, NK would get a kick out of that

Sure, why not.

there you are a cooperative solution

note he agreed to dumping them in the northern territories ..... not Quebec province.

so from one extreme to the other, I'm of the firm belief that migrants should go where the need exists not just to the established centres