Santa Barbara killer Elliot Rodger blamed 10 year old girl Monette Moio for making him hate women - YouTube
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Because she and her friends teased and bullied him, not realizing that he had Asperger's.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
well that's a convenient diagnosis. Where is the evidence that he was bullied by a girl 2 years younger than him ? Sorry ;don't buy aspy as a cause.
I'm married to an Aspy and could keep you awake for a few hours with the "teasing/bullying" stories I've heard over the years. Kids can be merciless when someone is a bit different.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
That was NOT his complaint!Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
has he gone violent ? I know aspys too. Yea I've heard stories of bullying . Not one of the ones I know wrote a 140 page rant and went on a killing spree .. I read his "father's " quotes about how the rest of the world failed his kid while taking no responsibilty for it . That's because his solution was to give his kid a couple of luxury cars and to send him off to some fancy Hollywierdo " Institute " so he would not have to deal with him.
Elliot's train went off the track, not because he was an Aspy, but for associated reasons. It doesn't sound like there were any interventions to help him improve "negative" Aspy characteristics that were his social downfall.
My husband isn't violent but does get very frustrated and upset when his Aspy idiosyncrasies are pointed out/laughed at.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
You can buy fully functional but it is so expensive that almost no one can afford it.
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This kids parents had this kid in therapy since he was 8 yers old... he was in therapy almost daily through high school... yet nobody said anything to anyone. How about placing blame where blame is due...his parents were at the top of the ladder. His therapists aren't far behind. Because NONE of them reported him to the authiorities.
And His therapist had a copy of the manifesto 15 minutes before the shooting started....who did they call, his parents. Not the police as they are required to do when threats of violence to others are made.
No Tom what I'm looking for is a society that is mature enough to realise that people are imperfect and cannot be allowed to do whatever feels good, governments responsibility is to provide a safe environment for all, this is why we have laws and when laws are found to be imperfect and not achieving their purpose they are changed. It is obvious that gun laws are not achieving their purpose and people are dying needlessly. It is quite probable that laws relating to mental health are not achieving their purpose and there should be greater control of certain individuals, You go ahead and blame fantasy because one person could not recognise fantasy if you want, but the reality is society failed Elliot, his interaction should have been controlledQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
"Inert"
People can't afford them is a cop-out - brokers buy islands for sh!ts and giggles.
maybe he needed a reeducation camp. That's what his father(the man who takes artsy pictures of naked women,and direct movies about a dystopian teen age world ) tried to achieve by placing him in one of those fancy expensive 'institutes ' for misunderstood pampered children of the rich. You know ...the types of revolving door places that Lindsey Lohan attends on occasion.
If you want to say that sex crazed Hollyweird society failed him ,you may have a point. . His expectation was that if he flashed his father's wealth around that he could 'have 'any woman he desired . Why would he think that ? Because that's what Hollyweird is all about . It was beyond his comprehension that living rich in Hollyweird ,he could not get to 1st base .
So you are saying the concept of prostitution in hollywood eluded himQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Dont let that confuse you. With much of it you can load it with what is needed to fire it. Just like reloading your own shells.
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He should have been locked up years ago... and he would have if the ACLU hadn't won the unlimited freedom of mental patients decades ago from a liberal court.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
What did he do years ago to merit being locked up?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
He was in therapy since he was 8, and DAILY therapy throughout high school. You have to be seriously screwed up to need daily therapy sessions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Therapy for what? What was being done?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Not the same . It's about narcissism. The women had to want him to make the conquest a success.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
BTW ;he hacked to death 3 of his victims ;he ran down others with the BMW daddy got him. He could've also achieved his goals by being an arsonist and burn down the Sorority House . So this bs about guns is just that . BS . America has had a "gun culture " throughout it's history without these incidents .
You know the answer but will not say it. We have drifted as a society away from God . Elliot in particular was his own god ."How could those girls pick this guy, the descendant of slaves, when they should be picking me, the descendant of English royalty?" He couldn't cope with the fact that he couldn't get a hook up in Sodom.
BTW ,his old man once made a movie where he travelled around asking celebrities what God meant to them. The movie flopped and almost bankrupted him. He then went out and made a success by making a movie about teens who kill each other in a ritualistic survival game.
It will come out... but its not been released yet... we only know he was in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
It is known he was a weirdo....he did have classmates try take him to dances and all he did was sit there and stare at women....thats not normal in anyones book. And certainly not endearing to others. Thats on him...not anyone else.
You can't just lock up people with aspergers but you do have to keep their interactions to a minimumQuote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
so you think people who are in therapy should be locked up, no doubt this individual didn't function well and his therapist should have been advising his family to intervene. If he was in therapy I expect his increasing frustration would have been evident and signalled at least a warning if not admissionQuote:
He was in therapy since he was 8, and DAILY therapy throughout high school. You have to be seriously screwed up to need daily therapy sessions
God helps you when you make a commitment, whether a person in his condition is capable of understanding the concept is mute. as to America's gun culture who knows what monsters it created, you have had many serial killers but the gun hasn't protected you.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I just want to respond to the comment about being shy at a dance, the fear of rejection is powerful and if you have been rejected often it is difficult and must have been more difficult for a person in his condition. Not everyone who is rejected in such circumstances is in need of therapy, but the gun culture means that it becomes a solution to a problem whether as a instrument to suicide or an instrument of revenge.
Society failed this fellow because he should not have been at liberty, but he would not have been able to do as much damage without access to guns
No, you don't! You want them to socialize as much as possible and learn how to pick up body language and facial cues.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
A 22 year old that's been in therapy since he was 8... on its own is reason to look.. the fact he's ALSO had very disturbing YOUTUBE videos dating back MONTHS everyone knew about is even more cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
He sent the manifesto to approx 30 people 15 minutes before he started killing people... did the therapist call the police like they were required to do? No... they called the parents ( we know they got it right away... and they called the parents when the police should have been notified). None of the 30 at this point are said to have called the police.
Its also clear from people that knew him that were interviewed....he was one serious weirdo. Nobody that knew him is claiming he was a sweat nice guy they just can't understand what happened. He was a freak....and was always a freak.
People like him should have been locked up and off the streets. But apparently his right to wreak havoc and murder people when all the signs were there for a long time outweighed the rights of those six to have a life.
How's this for a concept. There is such a thing as evil and evil people ;and nothing that society can do to change that.Quote:
Society failed this fellow because he should not have been at liberty,
I'm sure that's going to be a great comfort to the parents, friends and family of the six people killed by this guy. After all his rights were more important than theirs were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I wouldn't do it at arms length or if there was any chance they could outrun you. I don't even think California types are that touchy feely they would sacrifice their own children in the name of whatever you would call it.
If he killed one of my kids... and they declared him mentally unfit... and he got off for some more therapy... if he was ever released in my lifetime... he would meet with a 'stray" bullet when he never expected it shortly after he got out.
No I do not believe in the insanity defense... or for mental incapacity. If they were healthy enough to be walking the streets, they are healthy enough to answer for their actions just like anyone else.
If he'd been taught to understand body language and facial expressions, been socialized in various ways, we wouldn't be here today talking about this. It has nothing to do with "rights."Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
You've never talked with person suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, have you. Or a sociopath.Quote:
No I do not believe in the insanity defense... or for mental incapacity. If they were healthy enough to be walking the streets, they are healthy enough to answer for their actions just like anyone else.
I don't NEED to... they shouldn't be running loose. THEY decide THEY don't need or want the meds... next thing innocent people are suffereing. Paranoid Scizophrenics are a danger to not only themselves...but others around them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
He was ranting about no Popular girl wanting to have sex with him... Well DUH!. he can hire a prostitute if he needs it THAT bad, dad was rich he wasn't from some "underprivleged" family in South Central.... he's not entitled to that from anyone he wants anymore than anyone else's is... which is not at all.
And nothing I've seen or heard so far indicates this is because of asbergers... He was a world class dork with a overactive ego. 30 years ago people would have knocked some sense into him rather than feed his warped image of self worth that lead to this. But thats not politically correct these days.
Cripes...14 hours or more a day playing World of Warcraft? That alone indicates serious issues.
But there a lot of medicated paranoid schizophrenics and sociopaths walking the street.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Not because of Asperger's, but the first characteristic listed is social dysfunction, social anxiety. Why wasn't that dealt with years ago?Quote:
And nothing I've seen or heard so far indicates this is because of asbergers...
That's just passing the buck, if you want to do that then is should be specifically taught as in a special school, not jus throw them to the wolves. It is not our responsibility to take over the training of such a person, it is a family responsibilityQuote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
and there it is situational ethics, you can apply this argument to an individual who fails to cope but you cannot see the parallel in the availability of gunsQuote:
Its also clear from people that knew him that were interviewed....he was one serious weirdo. Nobody that knew him is claiming he was a sweat nice guy they just can't understand what happened. He was a freak....and was always a freak.
People like him should have been locked up and off the streets. But apparently his right to wreak havoc and murder people when all the signs were there for a long time outweighed the rights of those six to have a life.
THis has NOTHING to do with guns... there is a Constitutional right to own guns...Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
I don't see a constitutional right that's as clearly written giving rights to the mentally ill to terrorize the public.
Ah yes but how to identify them, what you are suggesting takes us back to the dark ages, but then no surprise, it is in line with your eighteenth century Calvinist thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I don't think any child is born inherently evil, but evil people corrupt because misery loves company. There is a solution but not very palatable because once you start where do you stop
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Oh I do believe its so... there are people born inherently evil... I've met a few in my life. THe worst one got his head blown off at 18 during an attempted armed robbery....the person he was attempting to rob blew his head off with a shotgun.......I laughed out loud when it hit the news....as far as I was concerned there wasn't a more deserving person. Another is serving life in prison right now.....a few of the others I have no idea what became of them.
Yes, the parents' responsibility, plus special schooling, if necessary, and counselors/therapists working with the child.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
There is a constitutional right of the general good, a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, these rights trump any other enumerated right, and don't play the SCOTUS card they are as craven as any otherQuote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Really... so the sane... law abiding people don't have that right... because both can't have it... when the other group lives to rob, kill and otherwise terrorize everyone else.
THis PUNK...more than anyone else in recent decades deserved prison rape.....over, and over and over......but thats never going to happen.
At least there won't be an expensive trial....and even more expensive incarceration or endless treatment bills the taxpay will have to foot. And he's not ever going to breed.
He should have just shot himself first.....and did the world a massive favor.
How do you define sane when the inmates run the mad house?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
noone deserves that and you have just shown how insane you are and why you should not own a gunQuote:
THis PUNK...more than anyone else in recent decades deserved prison rape.....over, and over and over......but thats never going to happen.
Now on this point perhaps we can agree but not a justification for the availability of gunsQuote:
At least there won't be an expensive trial....and even more expensive incarceration or endless treatment bills the taxpay will have to foot. And he's not ever going to breed.
He should have just shot himself first.....and did the world a massive favor.
He would have deserved prison rape... and it would have been poetic justice... have you heard his video rant yet? Find it and watch it if you haven't. Its all over the net right now. The way he talked like he was ENTITLED to have sex with the popular girls, because HE wanted it, and this was payback because he didn't get it (not his exact words but its close)... well, that goes two ways... he would have found out what its like when someone ELSE wants it and he didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
As far as the inmates running the mad house... well, yeah that does happen way too often. EVERYWHERE.
as I said before he failed to understand the concept of prostitution in Hollywood
Yes from the people who gave you MAD to the people who gave you the GFC
Show me how your first and second propositions are mutually compatible.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Not all laws are clearly written, it is called prescriptive legislation.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
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