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Don't know, but don't you think they should argue honestly? That was either horsesh*t or I've just missed all the he-man woman hater, gay bashing, education hating, theocracy 101 meetings. I'm going with it's horsesh*T.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Since you can't tell, and neither can I then I sue the Christian that discriminates against me. How about that, let the court sort it out.
If y'all want me to be the commish again , I'll try to set up a league over the weekend .Quote:
PS>Baseball?
Go for it boss.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/images...quote_icon.pngNow Tal I thought you might at least know the answer to that one, the real Christians arn't the ones with guns in their handsQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/images...post-right.png
Well hell, how the freak do you tell a REAL Christian from a fake one?
Really... if real Christians were pacifist pansies... the Romans would have killed them all off in the 1st century AD.
Check your history book to find out what 1st century Christians did (hint they didn't carry weapons). Why didn't the Romans kill them all off? Why were the Greek word ΙΧΘΥΣ and the profile of a fish so important to Christians?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Read up on Nero and what was happening with Christians in 64 A.D.
.Quote:
Really... if real Christians were pacifist pansies... the Romans would have killed them all off in the 1st century AD
let us examine your thesis for a moment smoothy, how many battles did the Christians fight with the Roman's in the first century or any century for that matter? and yet, christianity became the dominant religion in the Roman empire and throughtout the world. Unlike Islam, christianity doesn't rely on conquest to spread the truth. It seems pacifist or at least christian views were important and scripture tells us the might of our arm will fail
the Christians didn't rely on military might to survive and prosper.
How did Christianity get to Europe? I guess it had nothing to do with conquering it by the Romans.
As I recall Tal it spread by word of mouth and the efforts of Peter and Paul who both went to Rome and died there, but there were others since it began in Judea and the population of Judea was dispersed by the Romans. Yes it did follow the Romans but they had already conquered a large part of Europe before the Christians came along. Christianity spread to places like India and Ethiopia without benefit of armies and even people like the Vikings eventually became christian without being conquered
Back to the donuts. Any LEO would have to be kinda stupid to eat one of Ex's product if he felt that way. Same thing about the guys with the wedding cake. If he HAS to make it by court order, I REALLY don't want to taste it.
Tried to make that point earlier (#39) . The point is that this law Arizona is contemplating supports the right of freedom of association. That makes it the opposite of Jim Crow laws which codified a prevention of freedom of association. By statute ,whites and blacks were denied the right to associate in the market place. Laws forcing people to associate are just as perverse.
That makes 3 of us who tried to make that point. I'd much rather just go somewhere that wants my business and we can all be happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catsmine
In that vein, I believe Kevin Williamson hit the nail squarely on the head.
Until the Whole Is Leavened | National Review Online
Be careful what you wish for.Quote:
Try turning the moral math around as a thought experiment: Imagine you are the gay owner of a restaurant in Chelsea, a member in good standing of the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce, rainbow flag flying out front — and the cretins from the Westboro Baptist Church decide that they want to rent your party room for their annual “God Hates Fags” Sunday brunch. Shouldn’t you have the right to refuse? There is in this sad world such a thing as a Ku Klux Klan wedding — should the management of Harlem’s famous Sylvia’s Restaurant be prosecuted under civil-rights law if the establishment should decline to cater such a wedding? It is impossible for me to imagine that that should be the case.
Hello again,
If I were IN the doughnut business, I wouldn't name it, "I Hate Cops Doughnut Shoppe".
Interestingly, I was IN the security business, though. I worked closely with cops every day. They had NO idea who I was, and they LOVED my product. No, I didn't tell them what I thought of them.
I did DO do one of them. She could only get off if she was wearing her gun. It was just kinky enough for me.
Here's another cop story... Some of you know that I did some "extra" work on a couple movies. In one, I played a cop. They gave us REAL cop uniforms, and we were filming AT their headquarters... Well, I had to use the facilities, so I went inside. As I'm walking down the hall, a prisoner started WHACKING the cop who was escorting him someplace... This cop kept looking at me and YELLING for me to jump in. But, I just watched. What?
excon
Changing the subject, eh?
Hello again, Steve:Will I EVER convince you that discrimination is ANTITHETICAL to the American way? That it's UNCONSTITUTIONAL? That it's MEAN spirited?? That it's the OPPOSITE of freedom??Quote:
Changing the subject, eh?
Nahhhh... Might as well talk about fun stuff.
excon
PS> (edited) In terms of toms hope and dream that we go back to a world where one was FREE to associate with whom one chose, it resulted ME being discriminated against. I didn't LIKE it. More than likely, YOU wingers, are WHITE, and haven't ever felt the pain of somebody NOT liking you because of who you are...
Now, I KNOW you don't understand any of this, and THAT is the major problem we suffer as a country... And, it's getting WORSE.
I'm DONE!
Ok, NO I'm not, because I KNOW you'll bring up how much Christians and white people are discriminated against... If that wasn't so outrageous, it would be funny... But, that's what you believe, isn't it???
Actually, discrimination is the very antithesis of Christianity too. Jesus said in the Beatitudes to turn the other cheek and St. Paul said your kindness will heap coals of fire on an enemy's head. If I'm a Christian gay and own a restaurant that the Westboro Baptist Church wants to party in, I'd do so (and not even pollute their food). They've got the problem, not me. Maybe, just maybe, it would be the beginning of opening a heart or two and changing a mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
P.S. Added in response to ex's P.S. Try being female in a conservative white (Christian) patriarchal society.
So you would deceive them. That's expected. Most Lefty Bigots are really really good at lying.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Its not deception when you keep personal BS to yourself and act like a decent human being.
Hello again, Cats:
Are you telling me that by NOT advertising that I'd been in prison is DECEPTION????Quote:
So you would deceive them. That's expected. Most Lefty Bigots are really really good at lying.
You're a fuking idiot.
excon
Doesn't matter about the other stuff its just treating people the way YOU want to be treated, left, right, bigot or whatever, doesn't matter. Why is that so hard for some Christians in America to understand? You want the people to understand where you are coming from don't you?
Share the love not the hate. Love the sinner even if you hate the sin. Or do you guys think you're better than gay guys? That's it isn't it?
Not being Christian, I have to turn that question around. Why does a group that claims to be seeking equal treatment demand special privileges? I don't refer to just Gays: Affirmative action for people of African descent, Taxpayer funded abortions for college student Congressional candidates, bypassing the Citizenship Naturalization process for illegal immigrants, and printed forms in half a dozen languages but excluding other languages for people that refuse to use the most common.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
PSwell you can make laws all you want and that won't do a damn thing to change people's hearts. Title II was government changing government enforced segregation .Segregation, was enforced by law, which meant that those who wanted to associate or integrate could not do so. What you are talking about is forcing associations ,and that is just as repressive as the former. Freedom of associations is an implied right in the 1st Amendment . But it doesn't surprise me that the left is big on compromising a variety of 1st amendment rights.Quote:
> (edited) In terms of toms hope and dream that we go back to a world where one was FREE to associate with whom one chose, it resulted ME being discriminated against. I didn't LIKE it. More than likely, YOU wingers, are WHITE, and haven't ever felt the pain of somebody NOT liking you because of who you are...
If there could be one rule and one policy that would be great, but the standard has 50 components and some work better than others. Some are more equal than others, and some have more loopholes than others. Even the applications are different in 50 states. In the case of the current OP, the ones with power make rules to exclude the few, on the basis they can. So under what circumstances can the few be included in the big picture?
For sure picking your customers in a public setting is the same discrimination we have seen with many groups through out history but many have fallen by the wayside as wrong. Its simple cause and effect really and I argue that there would be no need for any affirmative action if there were NO discrimination. But we know there is, even without the winks and nods and religious beliefs.
You don't have to turn the question around because you are not a Christian. They too can be as wrong as anyone. It's their right. But like most works in progress, as a country we still have to keep working at forming a more perfect union. Religious beliefs not withstanding.
Civil rights has been an issue since the founders said only land holding white men counted as men. Now the gay people have to go through the same crap all other groups have been through. Wonder what group is next, and where it ends?
I'm a Christian and agree with you -- equal treatment, but no special privileges. I've worked my butt off for what I have, and so should anyone else. No handouts, or the value of the thing and one's self reliance get lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catsmine
I agree but working hard and going nowhere may not be a thing you can control. Qualified can be a very subjective thing to those that do have control of opportunity. Or those with the power to create obstacles and distraction from ones own goals.
Arizona is a good example of creating obstacles for a group of it's constituents. Others are less obvious, or blatant, but nonetheless there. You can't ignore it sometimes doesn't matter how hard YOU worked. Or if it happens to other groups besides the one you belong too. To be fair, I don't think as many Christian will discriminate but its obvious cover for those that will. They deserve no religious cover in my opinion, but a stern lecture in practice what you preach is more appropriate.
It's absurd to think hate and its cousin discrimination no longer exists, but hiding behind religious belief in the name of a just god is dishonest. I see no difference between those so called Christians and the Ayatollahs they hate so much. Like a klansman with no hood who gets elected to make laws. Arizona has those too.
Hello again, Steve:
Ex the premise that religious beliefs should be confined to inside the walls of a building is rediculous. The church is a group of people not a building and that group transends the physical boundries you try to impose on it. A religious belief such as you suggest had better be practiced in secret because anything more than that is illegal on so many levels, so yes society has spoken and said such "religious" belief is unacceptableQuote:
Look. I sympathize with your religious beliefs... But, when you practice them OUTSIDE of the church, you open yourself up to the discussion about WHO'S beliefs are we gonna make superior over others.. You think YOUR beliefs should be supreme. But, according to our beloved 1st Amendment, MY beliefs are equal to yours, even if I just formed a church. The 1st Amendment says NOTHING about older religions versus newer ones.
Who are you to tell ME that MY religious beliefs CAN'T be centered around a HATRED for cops??
So you are against Arizona passing a law that says its okay to discriminate against gay people Clete?
I didn't read all the posts, just too much fighting back and forth for my taste.
Here's my opinion on the original question.
Yes, as a business owner you can refuse service to anyone you want. Voicing why you're refusing service isn't smart. Refusing service because of your beliefs, isn't smart. Are you in business to spout your beliefs, or to make money?
So go ahead, start refusing service because you hate cops, or you hate gays, or you hate blacks, or you hate single mothers... you won't be in business very long if you do that. So why even bother starting a business? Better to stay at home and post online about all the things you hate or discriminate against. At least online you may find a few people that believe what you do.
I'm reminded of my dad. Three things he told me when I got my first job. When you're working you never discuss religion, sex, or politics. Keep your mouth shut, do your job, make money. If you want to discuss the three no no's you don't ever do it at work.
I understand fine, are you willing to force the gay guys to host the God hates fags banquet?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
This is my point exactly. If the gay guys own their business and are asked by the "God hates fags" to provide services for their banquet, they, as business owners, have the right to say no.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
But it's business! You're not in business to stand on a soap box for your beliefs. You're not in business to convert people to your beliefs. You're in business for one reason and one reason only, to make money!
So ya, say no to the banquet if you want to lose money because they don't follow your beliefs. Be prepared to go out of business unless every customer meets your moral standards, your exact beliefs. In fact, don't even bother going into business at all if you can't separate business from your beliefs.
Religion, sex and politics! My dad was a genius. Those three things don't mix if you want to survive in business.
What Alty said.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
do you actually do those things over there always thought you were a bit insensitive under the veneer
Who are you talking to Paraclete?Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
those people who advocate holding god hates fags banquets far as I know god doesn't hate anyone but he does hate the consequences of their actions
I don't think he's too fond of child molesters.
once agin smoothy same applies but we do know he thinks that it would be better for such people if they had a millstone around their neck and they jumped in the ocean
So they should be able to say no to the "God hates fags banquet" and live their decision. That's all I wanted to know.
In Florida a gay guy can just shoot 'em if he FEELS threatened by hate speech, and keeps the non refundable deposit.
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