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Phil is doing what most people do when confronted with an undeniable situation. Obviously there is no point is denying that segregation existed, but it is always possible resort to a minimalist explanation.
For example, one could say in relation to any number of historical situations:
"Yes, things were bad, but not as bad as people make out. It was my experience at the time..."
No he didn't . What he did was point out the undeniable truth that there have been terrible negative consequences with the remedies that were applied. Look ,the guy isn't that articulate ,so it is easy for his critics to read his words and distort them. There was one idiot ( John McIntyre of the Baltimore Sun)who made the claim that Robertson said blacks were better off as slaves. He made a later retraction that was probably not read by his readership.
The Duck Dynasts - baltimoresun.com
Cavan Sieczkowski of Huffpo wrote that Robertson “claims black people were happy pre-civil rights.” He then took Robertson on for supposedly condoning Jim Crow laws.This line of reasoning went viral ;and there is NOTHING in his words that leads one to make that claim ;or the contention you make .
Here is Professor Walter Williams making the same argument that Robertson made.....
The Weekend Interview with Walter Williams: The State Against Blacks - WSJ.comQuote:
During Reconstruction and up until the 1940s, 75% to 85% of black children lived in two-parent families. Today, more than 70% of black children are born to single women. The welfare state has done to black Americans what slavery couldn't do, what Jim Crow couldn't do, what the harshest racism couldn't do and that is to destroy the black family."
War on Poverty Revisited | Capitalism MagazineCapitalism MagazineQuote:
“The black family, which had survived centuries of slavery and discrimination, began rapidly disintegrating in the liberal welfare state that subsidized unwed pregnancy and changed welfare from an emergency rescue to a way of life.”
(correction the 2nd link is from Thomas Sowell an economist)
Ok then, I haven't been following the tread for a few days. Can you point out or provide the quote that says he was pointing out the undeniable truth that there has been terrible negative consequences with the remedies that have been applied.
Sure .Here is the entire quote .There is no other context because it was included in a blurb and was not part of the article in GQ .
Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson Gives Drew Magary a TourQuote:
“I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person. Not once,” he said. “Where we lived was all farmers. The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I’m with the blacks, because we’re white trash. We’re going across the field … They’re singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, ‘I tell you what: These doggone white people’—not a word!… Pre-entitlement, pre-welfare, you say: Were they happy? They were godly; they were happy; no one was singing the blues.”
Note he used the words pre-entitlement and pre-welfare and NOT pre-civil rights.
If anything from that blurb I get the sense that Phil was influenced by their attitude in spite of their circumstances, certainly not calling for a return to Jim Crow or endorsing oppression. I'd like to have heard the conversation leading up to that quote but alas that was omitted leaving the door wide open to speculation and slim hope for any rational discussion.
Yes, but this does not stop him providing a minimalist interpretation of events during that era. It is possible to do both.
Hello again, wrong wingers:
Somehow, I'm getting the sense that you think black people were BETTER off under Jim Crow, than they were under the welfare, entitlement state. If I'm right, or even SLIGHTLY right (and I AM), you are VERY VERY wrong.
excon
One would expect that interpretation from you but you would be wrong. Freedom is what makes us better, and especially the type of freedoms Phil Robertson is referring to but that's a message you culture enforcers can't see. You think being a slave to the state makes them better.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Phil's freedom is back to the woods, which is great if that's the way you want to live but us urbanites rather go to Kroger to get dinner than the back yard with a rifle. No problem, to each his own. I never look at Duck Dynasty, but love the Alaskan reality shows.
My point was that Phil saw things one way, and the black people saw that time completely different. That's why I referenced Bill Russell's book to at least let you see that others from that same region had a completely different experience.
You and Phil don't seem to get that and that's okay, just don't call me a liar for pointing out the flaws in your logic, or the differences in our faith, and practices, Speech. Those personal insults and name calling are NOT conducive to listening that leads to respect, love, or tolerance, or acceptance as FACTS.
Thanks for the research Tom, very insightful.
Oh spare me the indignant outrage and lecture on tolerance and insults. Do you need a mirror? Your entire argument is based on assumptions, insulting my intelligence and intolerance of Phil's comments, presented with no context as to what led to his remarks. No one is disputing that everyone has differing views and experiences of the same situation, you just expect us to believe only one side is legitimate.
I expect you to listen before you go into indignant insulting, self serving one sided name calling tirades. Its divisive, and non productive, even when I stoop to your level of discussion as retaliation.
Lol, what name calling might that be, "perfect and omniscient" or "culture enforcers?" Sorry, but I call bulls*t on that one.
While Tal is looking for those ugly names I called him, another reason MSNBC sucks. Melissa "your child is not yours but don't these tampons look great in my ears" Harris-Perry couldn't resist a segment mocking the Romneys and Republicans for their having a black adopted grandson.
Melissa Harris-Perry Panel Mocks Black Romney Grandchild As Token » The Right Scoop -
I'm sorry, but that's about as pathetic as it gets but that's typical of the guardians of all truth. I'm just surprised they didn't have a segment on the evils of pro lifers not wanting to take care of children after they're born before the segue into mocking them for doing so. I bet Michael Oher is laughing along with them.
You called me a liar, even though it was your own republican party officials who said the purpose of the voter ID laws was to suppress democratic voters. We have links. I never questioned your honesty or called you a liar, so don't question mine or ever call me a liar. We can disagree with out the personal character assassination can't we FRIEND(?).Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
You said Republicans were BANNING voting rights and that's an outright lie. I will call it what it is, friend or no. It is a lie, voter ID is not a ban, it protects the integrity of the vote, turnout increased in Texas, and the people support it...and none of that was relevant to this discussion.
Supreme Court Throws Out Ruling Blocking Texas Voter ID Law
And, SCOTUS continues to allow voter ID laws, so get over it. At least we don't mock people for adopting a child.
MSNBC host Melissa Harris-Perry was forced to offer an apology to the Romney family after a panel on her show mocked the fact that one of Mitt Romney's adopted grandchildren is black (adopted infant son of Mitt's son, Ben, and his wife, Andelyne).
Attachment 45396
The Romney family Christmas card was featured in the "Nerdland plays Caption That!" segment of her show
Her apology came in cowardly "tweets" .If she was really sincere ,she's pick up the phone and call Mitt Romney personally .
Did you see the other "apologies" offered by her enlightened guests?
Melissa Harris-Perry Guests from Romney Grandson Segment Offer Various 'Apologies' on Twitter | Mediaite
Yeah, some real courage there. But what would you expect from such profound thinkers?
P. S. I have an adopted niece that is black, that picture could just as well have been my family just like many others the panel in essence mocked right along with the Romneys.
the left is a strange breed of duck. I thought they said that adoption wasn't a viable alternative to abortion because whites would not adopt children of color. Then when they find an example of where it's happened ,they mock it. Imagine if Rush had sang the Sesame Street song .'One of these things is not like the other' in response to the photo.
Exactly right.
At least we have the courage to apologize for the stupid stuff we say, unlike the right who never apologizes for their stupid stuff.
First, that's another lie and second, it takes no courage to tweet.
Rush and Phil don't even tweet an apology, and Sarah never will. Self righteous bigots never do. That's no lie.
What are they supposed to be apologizing for? If anything, MSNBC should apologize for their idiotic attempt at bashing Palin with the Bible they don't understand and you Robertson critics should apologize for accusing him of wanting a return to Jim Crow. He said no such thing and he is still entitled to his religious beliefs whether you agree with them or not. You'll notice A&E did not demand an apology because he has nothing to apologize for.
Hello again, Steve:
I've not called for him to apologize. I've not called for A&E to fire him. I've simply pointed out that he's a bigot, and I'm sticking with that story.
excon
I have never questioned the right of Rush and Sarah or Phil to say stupid stuff. Or make money doing it. I have a right to say they are stupid, whether you agree or NOT.
See everybody is exercising their rights. That's freedom right? Don't care what A&E does to make money, and DD won't get mine. Discover Channels 'Alaska" series is better any way... with out Sarah in it!
You're entitled to that opinion however wrong it may be, ex. I don't think you libs even know the definition of bigot, if you did you'd be calling GLAAD out for being major purveyors of bigotry and intolerance.
In others they don't have anything to apologize for after all. Thank you.Quote:
I have never questioned the right of Rush and Sarah or Phil to say stupid stuff. Or make money doing it. I have a right to say they are stupid, whether you agree or NOT.
Personally I like it when wingers say stupid stuff and don't apologize. Proves my point on how stupid they are.
Thanks.
And again you make the accusation but offer no examples, while insulting them by calling them stupid. HELLO!
Hello again, Steve:
Lets review, shall we?Quote:
I don't think you libs even know the definition of bigot,
I MYSELF, PERSONALLY was sent to the deep south in 1962. That was when Phil was picking cotton in Louisiana with black people who NEVER complained.. There were TWO sets of drinking fountains where HE lived, and HE KNEW about them.. He KNEW why they were there. It didn't bother him.. If it did, he didn't say so.
So, the question ISN'T what black people said to him... It's what he DID when he SAW the blatant WRONGNESS all around him. He did NOTHING. He is NOT relieved of his guilt for NOT noticing the WRONGNESS.
The German people said NOTHING. They KNEW what was going on. Were they guilty because they did NOTHING???? You BETCHA!!
excon
First, you don't know what he did and second, the world is not a reflection of the big city culture warriors. Things are different all over so for you to criticize the life experience of those who lived it for not meeting your standards is to me just as much bigotry. You didn't live Phil's life, Mississippi ain't Boston. What do you suppose made him view himself as white trash? Is that the sort of self identification that really indicates he thought he was better than others? Here's a hint, no it isn't so save your pontifications for the elitists that sneer down their noses at Hicks like Phil, who in spite of his obvious flaws still preaches love for everyone. They might learn a thing or two about differentiating between loving people and endorsing their every behavior.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
You and Phil preach about love but show no understanding of anyone but yourselves. Go ahead prove me right, without preaching about YOUR rights.
Dude, I have an HIV positive, bisexual stepdaughter that just got out of prison a year ago who is presently in the hospital with 3 broken ribs and pneumonia who I just helped take a pee and pull her panties up, living with me. Do you really want to go there with ME? Why don't you ask her about that, I'm sure you just might be surprised I have a heart.Quote:
You and Phil preach about love but show no understanding of anyone but yourselves. Go ahead prove me right, without preaching about YOUR rights.
I never said you don't have a heart. I specifically said but show no understanding of anyone but yourselves. Never mind, I would be stupid to expect subtle nuance from a closed mind that is both subjective and conditional.
No wonder you don't see the insult Phil has cast.
Dude, you really have the balls to tell me I have no understanding of others after describing my daughter? You don't think I knew her partners, never visited her home, just sneered down my nose at them from afar? Not to mention the fact I live in the Hispanic neighborhood I grew up in.
I've lived diversity every day of my life, I've seen enough to make you blush so save your pontificating for someone else. I walk the walk every damn day, I've earned the right to be critical of intolerant bigots like GLAAD, I have nothing to prove.
This apology is sincere .
An apology from Melissa Harris-Perry | MSNBC
Hello tom:
Yes it was.Quote:
This apology is sincere .
excon
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