Ask Me Help Desk - Gun Violence

I'm with Guth.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I'm with Guth.

I highly recommend he takes a walking tour of the South side of CHicago at night... word has it the nighttime skyline is something to see...

And perhaps one of his own will take care of the problem for the rest of us.

If blind people can have a gun, why can't crazy people? Doesn't matter who gets killed anymore or how many. Just bury the bodies and get ready for more. No biggie.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I'm with Guth.

You wish for NRA members be damned by God and for their children to be murdered? I'm not surprised. That would be my navy veteran dad, myself and my five siblings - one who just retired from teaching and one who just retired from 40 years in law enforcement.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

If blind people can have a gun, why can't crazy people? Doesn't matter who gets killed anymore or how many. Just bury the bodies and get ready for more. No biggie.

No... just registered democrats... that will drop the murder rates over 75% overnight.

I bet Ralph Erick Santiago wishes he had a gun.
Three teenage boys charged with murder of Hoboken man, officials say | NJ.com

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You wish for NRA members be damned by God and for their children to be murdered? I'm not surprised. That would be my navy veteran dad, myself and my five siblings - one who just retired from teaching and one who just retired from 40 years in law enforcement.

Ok.

Stare into the circle... and repeat... OH Bama AH... OH Bam AH.

http://www.ddesignerr.com/wp-content...012/05/016.gif

As a mental health counselor, I really locked onto this article by Charles Krauthammer in this morning's Chicago Trib --

The real Navy Yard scandal - chicagotribune.com

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

As a mental health counselor, I really locked onto this article by Charles Krauthammer in this morning's Chicago Trib --

The real Navy Yard scandal - chicagotribune.com

I believe tom posted this and I agreed with Krauthammer.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Ok.

God bless you, too.

Which god though?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Which god though?

Any one you like, unlike you I wish you well - not death.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I believe tom posted this and I agreed with Krauthammer.

I looked back and see that he did. Sorry for the repost -- but that is what we need to concentrate on. Too many of these shootings have their seeds in mental illness or associated social problems. Unfortunately (yes, unfortunately!), everyone, even the mentally ill, have "rights." So where do we go from here?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

As a mental health counselor, I really locked onto this article by Charles Krauthammer in this morning's Chicago Trib --

The real Navy Yard scandal - chicagotribune.com

Me too
Ask Me Help Desk - View Single Post - Gun Violence

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I looked back and see that he did. Sorry for the repost -- but that is what we need to concentrate on. Too many of these shootings have their seeds in mental illness or associated social problems. Unfortunately (yes, unfortunately!), everyone, even the mentally ill, have "rights." So where do we go from here?

The fact that he passed both Federal and local backround checks is one of the things we need to concentrate on. All I hear about is more restrictions and regulations where clearly they are not the panacea . I know you say that Palin's comments are 'tooth paste squeezed out of the tube '(paraphrase ) . But she made a lot of sense.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I know you say that Palin's comments are 'tooth paste squeezed out of the tube '(paraphrase ) . But she made a lot of sense.

No, I said you can't put the toothpaste back into the tube once it's been squeezed out.

And the gun Adam Lanza used was properly registered. But he shouldn't have had access to it.

So what IS the panacea?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

No, I said you can't put the toothpaste back into the tube once it's been squeezed out.

And the gun Adam Lanza used was properly registered. But he shouldn't have had access to it.

So what IS the panacea?

Put the loons into observation and off the streets.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Put the loons into observation and off the streets.

How do we identify the "loons," and what happens when they say they have a right to refuse? (I've had a few of them walk through my life -- friends, library patrons, and even family members. And yes, they can refuse help and any medical or psychological treatment.)

We certainly don't start by politicizing the shooting at the memorial service. I mean for God's sake the man couldn't even take a break from being apolitical and non-partisan to acknowledge the shooting, now he has to push his agenda at the memorial service?

And then statements like this...

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I fear there’s a creeping resignation that these tragedies are just somehow the way it is, that this is somehow the new normal.

No, it is not the "new normal," mass shootings are not increasing, and one more time it is not the gun that is the problem. The breakdown of the family is the problem, the lowering of moral standards is the problem, the failure to intervene with people as obviously troubled as this shooter was is the problem, the utter disregard for the sanctity of life is the problem - the gun is not the problem.

Besides all that, the guy passed the background checks in buying Joe "fire a couple of shots in the air" Biden's weapon of choice. Not the AR-15 the media reported.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

We certainly don't start by politicizing the shooting at the memorial service.

Rather than rant and rave with nothing getting done, how can we change this?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

How do we identify the "loons," and what happens when they say they have a right to refuse? (I've had a few of them walk through my life -- friends, library patrons, and even family members. And yes, they can refuse help and any medical or psychological treatment.)

That's the problem... the fact someone got the idea crazy people had the RIGHT to run loose, refuse treatment and terrorize innocent people back in the 1970's.

Nobody is saying to euthanize them... but force them into treatment.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Thats the problem...the fact someone got the idea crazy people had the RIGHT to run loose, refuse treatment and terrorize innocent people back in the 1970's.

Nobody is saying to euthanize them....but force them into treatment.

And how do you decide which ones to force into treatment? Is there a level of behavior that's acceptable and can be ignored? If they have responsible caregivers in their lives (like Adam Lanza did), can we ignore them then?

I had a bipolar uncle. He lived eight blocks from my house, and his neighbors kept a close eye on him. The minute he started acting weird (putting his lawn chair on the public sidewalk and merrily waving to passing drivers or to people walking past; sitting on his front porch steps and crying; visiting neighbors multiple times a day), I would get a phone call to visit him and assess the situation. Invariably, I would end up driving him to the VA hospital or to a local hospital's psych unit where he would sign himself in for 6-8 weeks of rehab.

This would all come about because he would stop taking his meds for some reason or other (usually because he felt so good, he didn't think he needed them any longer). And I was responsible and conscientious and followed through after my neighbors' reports. Many family members of the mentally ill don't, thinking there is nothing they can do (because he does have rights and will say "no hospital, no meds.")

Then what? How do we identify who needs help? How do we get help for them?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And how do you decide which ones to force into treatment? Is there a level of behavior that's acceptable and can be ignored? If they have responsible caregivers in their lives (like Adam Lanza did), can we ignore them then?

I had a bipolar uncle. He lived eight blocks from my house, and his neighbors kept a close eye on him. The minute he started acting weird (putting his lawn chair on the public sidewalk and merrily waving to passing drivers or to people walking past; sitting on his front porch steps and crying; visiting neighbors multiple times a day), I would get a phone call to visit him and assess the situation. Invariably, I would end up driving him to the VA hospital or to a local hospital's psych unit where he would sign himself in for 6-8 weeks of rehab.

This would all come about because he would stop taking his meds for some reason or other (usually because he felt so good, he didn't think he needed them any longer). And I was responsible and conscientious and followed through after my neighbors' reports. Many family members of the mentally ill don't, thinking there is nothing they can do (because he does have rights and will say "no hospital, no meds.")

Then what? How do we identify who needs help? How do we get help for them?

You might not get them all... but there are plenty you will. And the ones who won't take their meds qualify... or those who can't be controlled by meds would be where to start.. Those that take them and are safe while on them... get to continue their lives as usual.

Call it incentive.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Rather than rant and rave with nothing getting done, how can we change this?

The ranting and raving isn't coming from us, that's the "discussion" started by the left.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

You might not get them all...but there are plenty you will. And the ones who won't take their meds qualify...or those who can't be controlled by meds would be where to start..

And how do you find these people? Psychiatrists and other doctors report in to some central authority that Mr. X and Miss Z have not been renewing their prescriptions?

And another problem: I had a client who was taking several meds for anxiety and some other mental health concerns. When she took her meds as prescribed, she was fine. But her OCD told her to take her meds all at once before she went to bed. Invariably, she threw them up and then cursed medical science for not making her well again. There are many patients who do just that -- are not "compliant" as we in the mental health field say and do not take meds on time and at the correct dosage.

Then what? Who knows and who reports them -- and to whom?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

The ranting and raving isn't coming from us, that's the "discussion" started by the left.

I don't see the righties making any changes -- or even joining the discussion.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And how do you find these people? Psychiatrists and other doctors report in to some central authority that Mr. X and Miss Z have not been renewing their prescriptions?

And another problem: I had a client who was taking several meds for anxiety and some other mental health concerns. When she took her meds as prescribed, she was fine. But her OCD told her to take her meds all at once before she went to bed. Invariably, she threw them up and then cursed medical science for not making her well again. There are many patients who do just that -- are not "compliant" as we in the mental health field say and do not take meds on time and at the correct dosage.

Then what? Who knows and who reports them -- and to whom?

Doctors have to report it... its no different than banks reporting your financial matters to the government...

If they aren't compiant... they get taken in to manditory treatment programs...

THey might not all pose a threat unmedicated... but who gets held responsible for the actions of those that do prove to have been a threat?

Its not a one strike and you are out program.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Doctors have to report it... its no different than banks reporting your financial matters to the government...

But it's not being done -- not always. We have seen those who fell through the cracks and what chaos they have wrought in our society.

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If they aren't compiant... they get taken in to manditory treatment programs...

Now they can refuse unless they are clearly a danger to themselves or to others.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

But it's not being done -- not always. We have seen those who fell through the cracks and what chaos they have wrought in our society.

Now they can refuse unless they are clearly a danger to themselves or to others.

The law was changed once... it can be changed again.

THey get the treatment... they do what's required... and if it under control... they retain their freedoms they have had...

If it can't be treated.. or they pose an imminant threat... or they get caught once failing to take their meds... into the program for as long as it takes...

Like I said... all the incentive in the world to take it serious... and do as they are required. Classic punishment / Reward reinforcement.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

The law was changed once...it can be changed again.

Ah. And what would a new law say? And would it stand any chance of passing? (After all, we are all happy that we have rights now and don't want to give up any.)

I guarantee you that there is someone shopping at Walmart right now or going to college or working at a desk, living what everyone considers an ordinary life. Maybe he stopped taking his meds or maybe he should be taking some in the first place or maybe he should be seeing a counselor about something and maybe his family is tired of dealing with his occasional ravings and outbursts and just ignores him. And we will hear about him on TV or read about him in next week's newspaper when he shoots up a public library or a hospital or a nursing home or a busy post office.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Ah. And what would a new law say? And would it stand any chance of passing? (After all, we are all happy that we have rights now and don't want to give up any.)

Let the legislaters decide that... and the fact is... their right to run free always has consequences to the rights of others... their right to live free and without fear of being robbed, beaten or killed by someone with mental or substance abuse issues.

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unlike you I wish you well

No you don't, you say the nastiest things to me of anyone on this board; some have even been deleted.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

No you don;t, you say the nastiest things to me of anyone on this board; some have even been deleted.

Dude, calling someone on their bullsh*t does not preclude me from sincerely wish them well. You on the other came right out and wished me and my family would be the victims of a mass shooting. Apparently your type of hatred and ignorant screed falls within the rules on this site.

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You on the other came right out and wished me and my family would be the victims of a mass shooting

Nope, that's what YOU wrote. I quoted your weird twisting of the tweet for posterity's sake. Apparently you feel that everything is a personal attack on you and your family. That's often diagnosed as a mental illness.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Nope, that's what YOU wrote. I quoted your weird twisting of the tweet for posterity's sake. Apparently you feel that everything is a personal attack on you and your family. That's often diagnosed as a mental illness.

Dude, it's too late to walk it back now, I gave you your chance to explain after saying you're with Guth, and your insistence on insulting me further doesn't do much to help your case.

I'm with Guth.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I'm with Guth.

And I still wish you well, not murder and mayhem.

Thanks man! But please stop putting words in my mouth with your posts.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Thanks man! But please stop putting words in my mouth with your posts.

You have only yourself to blame.