That would be a false claim.Quote:
Most people that get abortions aren't religious.
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That would be a false claim.Quote:
Most people that get abortions aren't religious.
yes ,that was the key theme of the Richard Fernandez blog post.Quote:
If you want to get all religious over this, it is clear; Satan, as always, has found a way to slaughter the innocents and it is easy because the logic is simple. Just get someone to think the solution is all about me, that god that has replaced God. This is the Me generation, they worship themselves and have that three headed god, Me, Myself and I
That's not the weird thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
In exactly the same way as it is easy to make a convenient supernatural explanation.
Even if you could show that it's irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Yup ; I've heard the "rational " explanations.. eugenics etc. the 20th century is stained with the blood of millions as a result and we are well on our way to surpassing that . I think the supernatural explanations make much more sense. Evil exists and is prevailing .Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuttyd
It is but you've conveniently have the blinders on again.Quote:
Even if you could show that it's irrelevant.
I'm glad you used "rational" in inverted commas. This includes may possibilities. Science not being the least of them. Rather convenient when you can claim that your reject humanism, but embrace the rational at the same time. Sounds like perfect ideologue to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Tut
Yes so let's stop doing it and tell women to be responsibleQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Dude, it's not me wearing blinders, it's your narrow mindedness toward people of faith and avoidance of what's relevant in this discussion. Do you have a comment on the OP or are you just here to hate on the religious?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
The ideologues are the abortion absolutists that want to sweep Gosnell and the horrors of abortion under the rug.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuttyd
Yes, I would say this correct. My fear is that both sides are susceptible to this problem. However, you strike me as someone who a least considers the practical implications of a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Well thank you.
I want all the facts, but I stop short at the notion this monster is typical of the free choice crowd. He is a fringe extreme at best, and a criminal at worst. Who aided and abetted his butchery is my concern.
The hell with the politics.
I don't think any reasonable person is arguing that Gosnell's butchery is typical and I've already noted several times that the PA health dept's blindness was "by design" according to the grand jury. The regulators turning away is aiding and abetting in my book.
I'm glad you're outraged by it as well, but I'm waiting on abortion apologists to answer the deeper questions this case.raises as well.
You hope he's an outlier. Evidently so is Dr. Leroy Carhart.
Doctor Death: 29-Year-Old Patient Dies After Late-Term Abortion in Maryland UPDATE: Complete Media Blackout by Feminists, Major News Organizations : The Other McCain
Physicians for Reproductive Health | LeRoy Carhart, MDQuote:
In recognition of his commitment to women's reproductive health, Physicians for Reproductive Choice and Health honored Dr. Carhart with the 2009 William K. Rashbaum, MD, Abortion Provider Award.
He has been awarded many times by groups like NARAL and NOW for advancing women's health . Yeah ,dying on the abortion table ,that's the ticket for advancing women's health !
I will be honest Speech, its hard to wrap my head around a female that could afford his services never exercised her rights a whole lot sooner, and a whole lot safer. I just don't get any female not knowing a month or so from conception that a decision has to be made and doctors already sought out.
I feel his clients were desperate, and very ill informed, making them easy targets of exploitation. He was a predator in every sense of the word, and no doubt there are many like him, on many levels. I just think any choice you make in life has consequences, or blessings.
I tend to agree most abortion patients are ill informed, this thread is to inform.
Yet another failure of those charged with protecting these women and children.Quote:
Kareema Cross worked for Kermit Gosnell for a harrowing four years helping with abortion procedures amid conditions so bad that she snapped photos to document them in 2008 — a year before the death of Karnamaya Mongar — then reported her boss to the authorities under a fictitious name.
But no one listened.
Two years later, authorities raided Gosnell’s clinic thinking it was a pill mill only to discover that it was frightfully so much more.
Read on if you dare...
It's time to end the lies...Quote:
While she worked for Gosnell, Cross testified that at least twice a day, six days a week, at least two babies would “precipitate” or be birthed before Gosnell ever arrived. She said “Dr. Steve,” Steven Massof, an unlicensed medical school graduate with a ghoulish curiosity about abortions, would be there to snip the babies’ necks. She saw him do it around 50 times. When babies “precipitated” in Gosnell’s presence, he would do the dirty deed himself.
Cross sometimes worked from 8:00 am until 3:00 the next morning helping with procedures. She routinely saw babies born alive, moving, breathing, and moaning.
Once in Gosnell’s absence, Cross saw a large baby delivered into the toilet. She saw his little arms and legs moving in a swimming motion as he struggled to get out of the toilet bowl. Cross held her hands 12-16 inches apart to demonstrate to the jury how big the baby was. Adrienne Moton, who was the first worker to testify for the prosecution, snipped the baby’s neck in front of the mother while she sat bleeding into the toilet. Moton then took the body away and put it into a container.
In 2009, Cross testified that another co-worker, Linda Williams, called Cross over to see a baby that had just been born. Cross saw the baby’s chest heaving up and down in steady breathing motions. Linda reached down and lifted the baby’s hand up, but the newborn pulled it away on its own strength. Cross said she saw the baby breathing for about 20 minutes before Williams murdered the child by severing its spinal cord with scissors. Cross demonstrated again with her hands that the baby was about a foot long.
Gloria Steinem has spoken...
Excuse me? Gosnell's victims would complain to PP and PP never reported it? That says a lot but it certainly does not make clear why PP is so crucial. If anything it makes PP complicit in decades of abuse. Read on...Quote:
NOTED FEMINIST Gloria Steinem took the podium at the National Constitution Center on Tuesday night, addressing a crowd of 500 spanning four generations at Planned Parenthood Southeastern Pennsylvania's annual Spring Gathering.
Steinem's talk came at a time when illegal-abortion doc Kermit Gosnell's trial is highlighting the uglier side of the abortion issue in Philadelphia, and as state legislators are considering measures to limit abortion access under future government-funded health-insurance plans.
Organizers said the event - and Steinem herself - would move the public's focus to the organization's work.
"The Gosnell trial has shifted the focus off the high-quality services we provide," said Dayle Steinberg, the organization's president and chief executive. "These are criminal, horrendous . . . acts and should be appropriately punished."
Steinberg said that when Gosnell was in practice, women would sometimes come to Planned Parenthood for services after first visiting Gosnell's West Philadelphia clinic, and would complain to staff about the conditions there.
"We would always encourage them to report it to the Department of Health," Steinberg said as she sat with Steinem before Tuesday's events.
Of the Gosnell trial, Steinem added: "It makes more clear why you need Planned Parenthood."
I'm sorry, I'm all for equal pay and all that but does she really believe her own bullsh*t? Do you believe her bullsh*t?Quote:
Her speech, Steinem said beforehand, would aim to "remind us that reproductive freedom is a fundamental human right."
Steinem called the legislation being considered in Pennsylvania's Legislature "self-defeating." The bills would limit abortion covered by federally subsidized insurance to cases of rape, incest or those that are life-threatening.
"It's putting women's health at risk," she said. "It's like saying, 'You have freedom of speech, but only if you say one thing.' "
Steinem's address was punctuated at several points by bursts of applause and nods of agreement from the audience.
She praised politicians and men in attendance who support women's reproductive rights, but likened the battle to the fight for the right to vote and said she believes it's only about half-finished.
She called reproductive freedom the "key to equalizing males and females," and praised Planned Parenthood and its supporters.
"There's nothing on earth more important than what Planned Parenthood is doing," she said. "It is connected to everything else."
"There's nothing on earth more important" than killing off millions of children? I know a few women who've had abortions that would disagree and tell you it's the most traumatic, gut wrenching thing they'd ever done and there's nothing they regret more.
Time to end this folly and stop believing and promoting this bullsh*t about protecting women's health, everyone that should have been doing just that not only FAILED miserably for over 3 decades, but they covered it up to boot. No excuses.
So throw away the cancer screenings, referrals, and check ups with the abortions. Nice strategy. I am sure females will appreciate you for it.
Depression is as common in woman who give birth as those who have had an abortion. And yes PP offers counseling for both scenarios.
We can find other avenues for cancer screenings and such, and I would trust PP for counseling as much as I'd trust them to protect the women of Philadelphia. They FAILED these womem, Tal and then had the audacity to claim that's why they're needed. Don't tap dance around that and the ludicrous claim that there's nothing on earth more important than their work.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
PP is an abortion providers that maintains other services so as to pick tax payer's pockets. Their screening service is like the olive oil company was for The Godfather... an elaborate front. The heart of their operation remains true to it's founder ,Margaret Sanger's goals... population reduction... especially minority population reduction.
Let me ask this one question... how many women go to PP to delivery a baby to term ? Do they even do referrals for that purpose ? I bet they do referrals for abortion services.
Hello again:
If men had babies, you could get an abortion from the abortion truck, and have lunch while you're at it.
excon
Look it up and see for yourself and let us know. Its been posted before many times and ignored for the assumption that's all PP does is abortions. That's a convenient argument to condemn the other 97% of its services to women.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
And they must be abject failures at stemming the population growths of minorities.
Planned Parenthood does indeed deliver babies…about 330,000 every year. The babies are delivered through a vacuum piece by piece, sucked into a jar, and thrown out as medical waste .Quote:
Look it up and see for yourself and let us know.
The $1,000,000 Butcher
Apparently you don't want to have an honest conversation about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Now we have the butchers of the Bronx.
Abortion clinic employee caught on tape recommending killing infant - NYPOST.com
Quote:
.
In an undercover sting operation, a woman who was 23-plus weeks pregnant (abortion is illegal in New York and other states after 24 weeks) secretly recorded the conversations she had in this abortionist's office.
In an exchange laden with euphemisms on both sides to conceal the gruesome nature of the discussion, the pregnant woman wondered aloud what would happen if “it” (her fetus) emerged from her intact and alive.
The employee assigned to take note of medical history reassured the woman, “We never had that for ages” (a seeming admission that a baby did survive abortion at the clinic at least once) but that should “it” “survive this,” “They would still have to put it in like a jar, a container, with solution, and send it to the lab.. . We don't just throw it out in the garbage.”
Oh, and this innocuous-sounding “solution” was, of course, a toxic substance suitable for killing an infant.
“Like, what if it was twitching?” asked the pregnant woman.
“The solution will make it stop,” said the clinic employee. “That's the whole purpose of the solution.. . It will automatically stop. It won't be able to breathe anymore.”
As for any qualms a woman might have about seeing her newborn child being poisoned and drowned in a jar, the employee advised her “patient” not to worry: She'd be under sedation, and the murder would take place in another room anyway.
The employee said, humorously, that “the doctor” is “not going to wake you up and be like, 'Hey, excuse me, you have—' ”
The sentence was left unfinished, too unthinkable even for a euphemism. There's no polite way to say, “You have just given birth, but we will murder the child.”
In fact, when the pregnant woman brought up the idea that, if the abortion failed and resulted in a live birth, “I would have to take it home,” the employee said, “No. That is so illegal! Once was start this, we have to finish it.”
Illegal to save the baby so they just take it to another room and drown it in chemicals? Almost makes Gosnell snipping the baby's neck look humane.
So when is a baby worth saving?
To some on the left... its when it turns 18 and is an adult before it has the right to life.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Save the mother, and she can save her own baby. The right has it a$$ backward as usual.
Hardly... if its capable of surviving outside the womb... its murder to kill it.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Talk about a$$ backward, when she's at the abortionist's office the mother is in their 'care.' A woman under sedation is kind of at their mercy, dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Hello again, Steve:
You appear to be LINKING this crime to legal abortion. That's like linking a bank withdrawal to a robbery..
excon
Not at all, I am trying to have an honest discussion but you aren't up for that. It's obvious that more children survive abortion than you're side admit. It's obvious that more abortionists are providing late term abortions than your side will admit, and it's more than obvious that your side doesn't believe these children deserve medical care. From the PP rep in Florida that could never think of a time a child should receive medical care, to Gosnell and the other abortionists mentioned in this thread that just whack 'em if they survive even six months into the pregnancy. These babies being killed are more developed than my niece, now 13, who weighed 1 lb 8 ounces when she was born.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
And yet more abortionists willing to kill the baby are surfacing...
At least this one gives you an excuse, it's like a DNR, except it isn't.Quote:
Arlington, VA: Live Action today released a second undercover video revealing how leading D.C. late-term abortion doctor Cesare Santengelo would leave a baby struggling for life after a failed abortion to die. The video is the second in a series of undercover videos, found at Inhuman: Undercover in America’s Late-Term Abortion Industry, involving a number of late-term abortion clinics engaging in illegal and inhuman practices, as well as explaining in graphic terms what happens to the victims of late-term abortion.
“Hopefully we’ll get this pregnancy out intact, but it doesn’t always happen that way,” Washington, D.C. abortion doctor Cesare Santangelo tells an undercover Live Action investigator who is 24 weeks pregnant. “I try and sever the umbilical cord first, and we wait for that to stop pulsing, and this way the fetus is expired first.”
When asked by the undercover investigator what would happen if the baby were to survive the abortion, Doctor Santangelo responds:
“Technically – you know, legally we would be obligated to help it, you know, to survive. But, you know, it probably wouldn’t. It’s all in how vigorously you do things to help a fetus survive at this point. Let’s say you went into labor, the membranes ruptured, and you delivered before we got to the termination part of the procedure here, you know? Then we would do things – we would – we would not help it. We wouldn’t intubate. It would be, you know, uh, a person, a terminal person in the hospital, let’s say, that had cancer, you know? You wouldn’t do any extra procedures to help that person survive. Like ‘do not resuscitate’ orders. We would do the same things here.”
Hello again, Steve:
I'm NOT sure what discussion you're looking for. This bastard is a criminal and should be in jail. What's to discuss? What OTHER law abiding doctors do?? Who cares?Quote:
I am trying to have an honest discussion but you aren't up for that.
Excon
Who cares? Obviously not you, not the media, not Planned Parenthood, not the president, not most anyone that's supposedly looking out for women and children. When is it not OK to murder a baby, ex? Why is no one outraged at the information that's finally coming out? The abortion industry and their enablers have been lying to us for decades, why doesn't that pi$$ you off, don't you care about these women and their children?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
The criminals are the liars, and the greedy. I know women who would be dead had they not found out they had cancer early enough to have a fighting chance at life through PP. I could be sympathetic to your abortion stance if you weren't so gung ho to stop good work that's needed by poor females in your zeal to stop abortions. Don't you care about treating cancer, or STD's?
But you make a good case for everyone having insurance. So stop trying to use this criminal to push that all abortions are done by evil people.
Oh wait, that's exactly what you are trying to do. Everybody is a lying criminal except people who defend conservative views.
Hello again, Steve:
One criminal is NOT an abortion industry. But, CONTROLLING the uterus of EVERY women in this great country of ours, is ANYTHING but small government... It's HUGE, MONSTROUSLY LARGE government... It's akin to a POLICE STATE!Quote:
The abortion industry and their enablers have been lying to us for decades
But, you're FINE with letting the banks have their way with us.
DUDE!
Excon
I already answered that silly question. Abortions and health care don't have to go hand in hand. Whatever PP may do right does not redeem them from all the harm they cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
All the deflection in the world won't change the focus of this post. When does a baby deserve medical care and why has the abortion industry AND their regulators been covering for these butchers?Quote:
But you make a good case for everyone having insurance. So stop trying to use this criminal to push that all abortions are done by evil people.
Oh wait, that's exactly what you are trying to do. Everybody is a lying criminal except people who defend conservative views.
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