Ask Me Help Desk - Doma is done

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So anyone who goes to a JP (non religious) to get married really isn't married, but is civilly united?

Sexual orientation is a preference, a choice? When did you choose to be straight? What age were you?

WHen I decided I was straight is not of any relevance. It's the practice of it that makes the difference. If a person were to remain celibate for their entire life does it matter? The only time it is in question is during the practice of it. So when you elevate sexual preference to a civil right then you also aloow anything through that door. Pedos can now marry as that is a sexual preference. Poligamy now has a place to flourish since it is a civil right.

Is that the argument your trying to push forward ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

WHen I decided I was straight is not of any relevance.

When did you decide TO BE straight, not was straight.

Pedophiles are usually straight and it is still classified as a mental illness. Polygamy is against the law.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

When did you decide TO BE straight, not was straight.

Pedophiles are usually straight.

So you have no argument in favor you just want to argue the minutia of one part. The relevance of the decision and when it occurred does not matter. It is the argument for anything goes that your skipping over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Pedophiles are usually straight and it is still classified as a mental illness. Polygamy is against the law.

It wasn't that long ago being gay was also a mental illness. It was considered deviant behavior. There are already mummers starting that pedophelia should be allowed.

So just because something is illegal at this time. Your jumping in on the argument that it is a civil right? So how's that working for you ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

So you have no argument in favor you just want to argue the minutia of one part. The relevence of the decision and when it occured does not matter. It is the argument for anything goes that your skipping over.

We have to deal with the minutia and define terms before we can deal with the larger issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

We have to deal with the minutia and define terms before we can deal with the larger issue.

It is already well defined. Or is it that you do not believe anyone can be celibate for life?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

It is already well defined. Or is it that you do not believe anyone can be celibate for life?

How did we end up with "celibate"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

How did we end up with "celibate"?

It is because anything after that is "choice". It doesn't matter what the inclination is.

So back to what your wanting to defend. That, that choice of sex is a civil right ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

It is because anything after that is "choice". It doesnt matter what the inclination is.

So you cognitively chose to be straight?

Maybe that's the whole problem. People are tired of others defining them, and want to define themselves for a change.

Orientation is not a choice, why would anyone choose a lifestyle that leads to ridicule, discrimination, shunning, and sometimes even violence?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So you cognitively chose to be straight?

I made a choice to act on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by earl237

Orientation is not a choice, why would anyone choose a lifestyle that leads to ridicule, discrimination, shunning, and sometimes even violence?

Why do people rob, steal and kill?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

I made a choice to act on it.

So you could have gone either way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So you could have gone either way?

Nope, unless that was a choice I made but my orientaion doesn't work that way.

Care to defend how sexual preference or choice is a civil right or would you like to dance around a bit more?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

Nope, unless that was a choice I made but my orientaion doesnt work that way.

I'm not finished with this yet. So sexual orientation is not a choice we make.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I'm not finished with this yet. So sexual orientation is not a choice we make.

It can be. Just like any other activity we as humans may participate in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

It can be. Just like any other activity we as humans may participate in.

How many of your straight friends made a choice to be straight? A conscious choice? The orientation of being straight, not the activity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

How many of your straight friends made a choice to be straight? a conscious choice? the orientation of being straight, not the activity.

I don't know as I don't grill my friends as you are attempting to do here. I accept them without having to question it. It is their choice. Not mine.

Sexual orientation is NOT a civil right. It's the way you are born. If all men are created equal, how can you define gay people as less. And how much less are they? 3/5ths, half, or LESS?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

I dont know as I dont grill my friends as you are attempting to do here. I accept them without having to question it. It is their choice. Not mine.

So you consciously chose the sexual orientation to be straight. 0n your sixth birthday? When?

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

Sexual orientation is NOT a civil right. Its the way you are born. If all men are created equal, how can you define gay people as less. And how much less are they? 3/5ths, half, or LESS?

If it is not a civil right then you can't use the 14th amendment to defend being gay. That is the point of the argument. It was implied earlier that it was.

If it were elevated to a civil right then you open the door to anything goes based on preference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So you consciously chose the sexual orientation to be straight. 0n your sixth birthday? when?

It goes further back then my memories take me. Before 6 years old.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

It goes further back then my memories take me. Before 6 years old.

C'mon. You didn't choose anything. You were always straight. You were born straight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

C'mon. You didn't choose anything. You were always straight.

The choice to act upon it. Have you missed that part of the argument?

Are you still contending that sexual preference is a civil right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

The choice to act upon it. Have you missed that part of the argument?

Are you still contending that sexual preference is a civil right?

Preference or orientation? There's a difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Preference or orientation? There's a difference.

Preference. As it is a choice to participate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

Preference. As it is a choice to participate.

Participate in what? So a same-sex couple could marry as long as they don't consummate the marriage?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Participate in what? So a same-sex couple could marry as long as they don't consummate the marriage?

Nope. That is against the law.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

Nope. That is against the law.

Well, then, as long as they don't "participate," it should be legal.

I'm with excon --

This is really simple.. people who joined in civil unions DID NOT have the same rights as those who entered marriage... The challenge to DOMA is about THOSE rights...

excon

Civil unions are NOT the same as marriage, do not convey nearly the same large number of rights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Well, then, as long as they don't "participate," it should be legal.

Actually no. In many states that would be grounds for divorce. Also marriage under false pretense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I'm with excon --

This is really simple.. people who joined in civil unions DID NOT have the same rights as those who entered marriage... The challenge to DOMA is about THOSE rights...

excon

Why didn't they have the same rights?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

Why didnt they have the same rights?

Because conservative Christians said marriage is between a male and a female (never mind the OT record of mistresses and concubines -- one man and how ever many women).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Because conservative Christians said marriage is between a male and a female (never mind the OT record of mistresses and concubines -- one man and how ever many women).

But you didn't answer the question. Why didn't civil unions have the same rights?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

But you didnt answer the question. Why didnt civil unions have the same rights?

Tell me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Tell me.

I asked you first :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

I asked you first :)

I'm just a feeble-minded woman. :D Tell me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I'm just a feeble-minded woman. Tell me.

Too late now. Maybe a trip to the library is in order for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

Too late now. Maybe a trip to the library is in order for you.

Library's closed. I'll ask tal or excon.