Well maintained old nukes are effective if needed. Bet you can't tell if its an old nuke, or new one that's being exploded over your head.
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Well maintained old nukes are effective if needed. Bet you can't tell if its an old nuke, or new one that's being exploded over your head.
More than enough, you only need one for NK, beyond Pongyang there is nothing, besides your fleet of aircraft carriers is more than equal to the task, talk about a belt and braces approach to lifeQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Oh if only our enemies thought in terms of reductionism. If Zero pursues his dream of a nuclear free world, Japan, South Korea and other countries long sheltered under America's atomic umbrella will have urgent second thoughts. He (and you apparently )do not comprehend that unilateral U.S. strategic weapons reductions are as likely to encourage nuclear proliferation as reduce it.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
That fear may well be so, but everyone you take off the black market is one less to worry about. We have been here before with India, and Pakistan, remember? I am not saying be less alert about the saber rattling of NK, but don't panic, or let our allies, and protected countries panic either.
What should we do? Sell SK, and Japan nukes, or nuke NK? That would be escalation.
No Tal let each progess according to their policy. Possession of nukes doesn't necessarily mean they will be used. Perhaps there is need for a deterrent on the doorstep in Asia. India and Pakistan have their problems but they haven't launched into all out war. Japan and SK should counter NK and present Kim Jung Uncool with a believable prospect of obliteration and just maybe it might be a counter to recent Chinese aggression
That mouse is roaring again. Kim Jong Uncool wants to kill everyone, but the person he wants to kill is just too far away so he has cut the hot line, now that person does not exist.
What I don't get is how this maniac thinks he can win, at best all he will get is a waste land. He might have an army of millions but he has no real ability to transport them anywhere other than a short walk south. You would think that history might have taught him something. The last time the US confronted North Korea it ended in stalemate and devistation
The Kim Dynasty have always ushered in a new wave of violence and bloodshed to gain legitimacy . This time Kim's toys have gotten much deadlier. It's bad enough that the NRKS have advanced their nuke program to a point that they successfully detonated a test ,and have successfully tested staged ballistic missiles... but the bigger problem is that the
12ers in Tehran are financing the whole enterprise and will benefit from the technology transfer . The pathway to an Iranian nuke can be traced back to the NORKS ;to Pakistan ;to China. Out of control proliferation has China's fingerprints all over it.
I don't think the Chinese stupid enough to want another state in their region with the bomb, particularly not an unstable one like NK
I think the young new leader has to at least talk tough or his own will eat him for lunch. I mean if he can' yell at the west and let them be the enemy, then his own people will will act on their empty bellies and then where will China be?
I don't think the chinese would be concerned by regime change in NK, it would be another good market for them if it opened up and they could do with less tension in the region
Officially on NK's part at least - a state of war exists
North Korea declares a state of war as attack plan glimpsed in background | News.com.au
NK is advancing its brinkmanship, so if SK so much as blink it will be a provocation. It appears the US gun boat up the river tactics of last week went down like a lead balloon in NK. It was polite of them to tell us all this time, instead of just attacking
Yeah blame America .
A very good sign that North Korea is bluffing about warQuote:
[W]e do have one pretty good metric with which to judge the country's intentions: the Kaesong Industrial Complex. The Kaesong Industrial Complex, located just across the northern side of the border, is staffed by South and North Koreans. It can't function without Pyongyang's daily okay. If the North suddenly shuts down Kaesong at some point, watch out. But as long as it's still running, as it has been throughout the provocations and tensions of the last few weeks, we can probably – probably — assume that North Korea is not actually planning to launch a war.
Well if the caps fits, wear it. Your actions, once again were unhelpfull. Do you think they weren't aware of your capabilities. No, you had to remind them at the wrong time. You don't have a diplomatic bone in your body, you have to always play the bully
Yeah diplomacy has worked so well in the past . The language that bullies like the un-Kim understand is a punch in the mouth ;not sweet talk concessions by Jean Francois Kerry and his ilk.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/globa...warning/63706/
No Tom it hasn't worked in sixty years
The Chinese have increased its military posture along the North Korean border including troop movements and warplane activity. They are now conducting unscheduled exercises in the Yellow Sea that includes 'live fire' on Vietnamese fishing vessels ; and amphibious assault exercises 80 km from Malaysia .
Russian President Vladdy Putin ordered a surprise military exercise from his presidential jet on a flight home from the BRICS meeting in South Africa. It is being conducted in the Black Sea .
China willing to help with Korea reconciliation - The West AustralianQuote:
Chinese President Xi Jinping told his South Korean counterpart on Wednesday that Beijing is willing to help reconciliation between South and North Korea, the foreign ministry said.
"China is willing to provide the necessary assistance to advance South-North reconciliation and cooperation," Xi told President Park Geun-Hye in a phone call, according to a statement on the ministry website.
By reconcilliation ,he means a take over of South Korea.
South Korea vows fast response to North; U.S. positions destroyer | ReutersQuote:
"If there is any provocation against South Korea and its people, there should be a strong response in initial combat without any political considerations," South Korean President Park Geun-hye told the defense minister and senior officials at a meeting on Monday.
Park's mother was killed by a North Korean assassin's bullet that was intended for her father .I don't think she will back down from the NORKS intimidations .
Like 1950 ;this situation is one spark away from spiraling out of control.Quote:
Stung by criticism that its response to the shelling of a South Korean island in 2010 was tardy and weak, Seoul has also threatened to target North Korean leader Kim Jong-un and to destroy statues of the ruling Kim dynasty in the event of any new attack, a plan that has outraged Pyongyang.
Tom we don't know if this is about internal NK politics or something else. The santions have been unhelpful because they don't elicit the required response. Undoubtedly the NK see it as we have tried to talk to these people but they just push us further all the time, while the US sees it as the NK are intractiable. The south hasn't stopped giving aid to the north. What China does it does for its own purposes, it can't afford a war, it is not isolated now as it was in 1950. Reunification may be a good thing and it doesn't need to be a northern take over, China understands the benefits of a market economyQuote:
Like 1950 ;this situation is one spark away from spiraling out of control.
Good ;then let the Chinese do a regime change on the Kim dynasty . You make it sound that the Kims are the puppet master instead of the other way around.
keep deluding yourself . What they have is a failed Potamkin economy that is about to have the mother of all bubble bursts . The only leverage they will have is muscle... and that is why they have been flexing it so freely these last few years .Quote:
China understands the benefits of a market economy
If China fails then we are all in trouble. No economy is isolated from any other in this world except maybe NK. China knows we need them but they need us also. You want to laugh at them but they have sustained growth and in doing so they have changed their economy and upgraded their inferstructure as well as commencing new industries. The way they are organised is different to your economy they have a longer term view and an energy you can only envy
The NORKS closed access to the Kaesong Industrial Park.
Experts said that we shouldn't take seriously the harsh rhetoric coming from the un-Kim as long as long Kaesong was in operation. Thus, this news is very bad indeed.
Tom I agree that escalation in any form is bad news. NK is punishing the South because they are the only available non military target. It is tit-for-tat diplomacy, you sanction us, we sanction you. That has what it has been so far, we take away your prizes so you will talk to us and show us respect. This is an oriental head thing
North Korea declares it has given approval for a nuclear attack on the United States | News.com.auQuote:
We enter the era of the suitcase bomb
NK's rhetoric has entered a new phase, they are no longer talking about striking the US with rockets but about more sophisticated means or perhaps like the movie an incursion into the US itself.
The US deploys advanced missile defense ,the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense System (THAAD), in Guam . The President ordered an increase in our ground based interceptor force in Alaska ;and the deployment of two destroyers equipped with Aegis missile defense systems, the Decatur and the John McCain.
Secretary Chuck Hagel said the NORKS represent a "present a real and clear danger." Those are not just words to be dismissed lightly. That's because threats by the un-Kim to nuke the US has to be taken seriously. They successfully tested a nuclear device recently ;and they also successfully launched a 3 stage rocket out of the atmosphere . If they were to successfully launch a multi-stage rocket that was even carrying a low grade nuke;and were able to successfully detonate it over the continental US at a high altitude ;the resulting EMP could fry electronics throughout the US.
Quote:
The damage level could be sufficient to be catastrophic to the Nation, and our current vulnerability invites attack.
—EMP Commission Report, 2004
Critical national security and homeland defense missions are at an unacceptably high risk of extended outage from failure of the electric grid.
—Defense Science Board, Feb 2008
Quote:
There is very little in the way of back-up capability to the electric grid (upon
Which the communications infrastructure is vitally dependent). Individual
Homes rarely have an independent source of electric power, industry has
Some continuity of operations (COOP) capability, and essential services
Such as hospitals are required to have a few days of auxiliary power to
Sustain them off the power grid. The likely scenarios caused by solar
Storms and EMP forecast a power grid loss for many times longer than
Current backup power sources, maybe even a year or more if a significant
Number of high power transformers are destroyed and would have to be remanufactured.
In some cases, such grid components are manufactured offshore
Causing even more delay. The net effect of the collapse of the electric
Grid is that communities would become localized and insular. They would
Be disconnected from the more regional conditions, the possibility of
Outside assistance such as food and medicine, and the chances of recovery
To normal. One group even explored that there might be no return to
Normal as was previously known.
http://www.csl.army.mil/usacsl/publi.../InTheDark.pdfQuote:
There is little in the way of preparation for the loss of the electric grid.
Although there actually is a significant amount of information in the form
Of literature, websites, and planning from the local government to the
Federal agency level, there has been little effort in the form of individual
Preparation and rehearsal for such an event. This includes the stockpiling
Of food and survival kits to include radios in Faraday protection boxes with
Batteries and first aid supplies. Preparing for months without a commercial
Source of clean water (city water pressure is often dependent on electric
Pumping to storage towers) and stoppage of sewage treatment facilities
Will require new methods of survival particularly in populated areas.
Note how no one in the left speaks in mocking terms about 'Star Wars' technology these days.
OK so the AP quotes State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland that this crisis give Zero the chance to open up to China.
"The issue here is to continue to recognize that the threats we share are common, and the approaches are more likely to be more effective if we can work well together,"
KRudd echoed the sentimentQuote:
North Korea's latest outburst of nuclear and military threats has given the U.S. a rare opportunity to build bridges with China — a potential silver lining to the simmering crisis that could revitalize the Obama administration's flagging policy pivot to Asia .
President Barack Obama recently called China's new president, Xi Jinping, as part of an effort to brief the Chinese about American plans to take steps to deter the threats coming from the North, The New York Times reported on its website Friday night...
China and the US have chance to rebuild trust: Kevin Rudd | Mackay Daily Mercury
He sees a "unique window" for the US to take the lead in the trust dept. In other words Zero should do a Clintoon and share our capabilities I mean ;what better way to close said deficit than to brief China on US military deployments and explaining to the Chinese just what our capabilities are?
After all the Russians are telling the world that the US build up in Korea is not about the NORKSat all ;but about China.
Obama's Korean Peninsula 'Game' Strategy - English pravda.ru
WSJ says that this flare-up and posturing is a win-win for China.
By China putting the squeeze on the NORKS (who are probably acting at the direction of China anyway) they hope for reciprocal moved by Zero regarding the recent Chinese -Tokyo tensions .
Nana Rolland: North Korean Pawn in a Chinese Chess Game - WSJ.comQuote:
What does Beijing gain from demonstrating goodwill to Washington though? China's action may be meant to suggest that if it can act tough with North Korea, the U.S. can show a similar attitude toward its biggest treaty ally in Asia-Japan.
The true target of Beijing's actions then may not be Pyongyang at all, but rather Tokyo. Since the Japanese government nationalized the Senkaku Islands in September, Beijing-which calls the barren rocks Diaoyus-has sought to demonize and isolate its neighbor. It accuses Tokyo of harboring imperial ambitions, nurturing ultranationalist sentiments and endangering regional stability.
Under this scenario ; The NORKS ramp up pressure under Chinese marching orders . Then the US gives privy to the Chinese about our deployments to counter the aggression. The Chinese reign in the NORKS ,and in exchange Zero puts pressure on Japan to mend their ways. Gee what could go wrong ?
But we can be tranquil and thankful and proud
for man's been endowed with a mushroom shaped cloud.
And we know for certain that some lovely day
someone will set the spark off
and we will all be blown away.
(Kingston Trio 'The Merry Minuet')
Saber rattling and being provocative has always gotten the NORKS what they wanted in the past, but this time he is being ignored as well he should be. As long as we are ready for anything dumb he intends on doing.
And China made it plain it doesn't want others playing in its back yard
Then they better talk to this young guy.
China is calling the shots.. we like to pretend that they don't .
This proxy stuff is getting old.
Well who's the proxy you think NK is the chinese proxy, no that is a dangerous game and one China cannot afford to loose, but they can afford to loose NK
The North Koreans have now escalated to closing the border and asking foriegners to leave even though things are quiet inside the country. This has real parallels with WWII when the Japanese found themselves restricted. We need to be conscious of oriental thinking, this is all about the prestige of the leader, perhaps if BO invited him to Washington for talks it would all blow over
Screw them. If they want to seriously talk about something they can do it like a civilized society. All this bluster to make a point is stupid.
I agree but apparently the US and NK talk all the time through back channels so it is just bluster it is just that the north koreans shout loader when they are doing it. Noisy little buggers aren't they
As I said before it all about internal politics, it's just that the US is a convenient target for NK rhetoric
Former top N Korean spy shares insight into regime - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Up until yesterday I agreed with the US response. But yesterday they signaled through their independent media mouthpiece that the US response to aggression would be measured an proportional. That is a huge mistake. It should be made clear to un-Kim that there will be a heavy price for aggression.
What they are saying Tom is; you fire one, we will fire one and one is all it takes.
Thing is; if 1 million NK soldiers cross the border, the US is not in a position to make a proportional response
No they are talking about you shell an island ,the SK will shell and island . Again Emperor 0 leading from behind. Now the un Kim knows how far he can take this. I would've told him instead that if we see evidence of one of those missiles he moved to the coast being fueled for launch ;we will take it out on the ground.
Ah a preemptive strike, reviving an old republican policy. No a proportional response is to fuel up a rocket.
I'm not into proportional responses . I want him to fear attacking .
Tom I'm sure he knows what MAD means just as you do, this is not about you (US) it is about his personal survival. I doubt he really believes the propaganda and the rhetoric but he has to talk tough, just like all dictators. Don't you remember how Saddam used to rave.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
He has done a lot to reinforce a message which is basically show us some respect
Your namby pamby handling of this over years has got you to this situation
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