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  • Feb 2, 2013, 03:57 PM
    talaniman
    Smith & Nephew - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Quote:

    In September 2007 Biomet Inc. DePuy Orthopaedics Inc. (part of Johnson & Johnson), Smith & Nephew PLC and Zimmer Holdings Inc. entered into settlement agreements, under which they agree to pay $300 million in total, adopt industry overhauls and undertake corporate monitoring to avoid criminal charges of conspiracy.[10]
    Quote:

    In February 2012, Smith & Nephew plc agreed to pay US$22.2 million to settle multiple US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) offenses committed by its US and German subsidiaries.[11] The company admitted to having bribed government-employed doctors in Greece to use its medical equipment over the past decade.[12] The company has entered into a deferred prosecution agreement with the US Department of Justice (DOJ) and has agreed to retain a compliance monitor for 18 months.[13]
    http://www.smith-nephew.com/about-us/at-a-glance/

    Quote:

    We have almost 11,000 employees and a presence in more than 90 countries.

    Annual sales in 2011 were nearly $4.3 billion.
    I have my doubts about this being about paying taxes in America. Looks like a business down cycle. Running lean as you say, or reacting to its out of court settlements. Getting rid of redundant employees given the global scope of the company, and genrous compensation and job support doesn't sound like ordinay workers but corporate types.

    I am at least sceptical seeing as they can be rather dubious about the way they have done buinessin the past.
  • Feb 3, 2013, 06:34 AM
    tomder55
    Yeah keep being a skeptic as one company after the other reduces staffing and blames it on Obamacare . They are all a bunch of greedy criminals after all.
  • Feb 3, 2013, 07:38 AM
    talaniman
    Come on Tom, businesses especially BIG business have used laying off parts of its work force due to changing business climate for YEARS, decades even, and you have advocated its legitimacy many times. I have been through this business cycle many times during my working years and am sure so have YOU.

    So when you claim they do it now for Obamacare, should we at least look at those companies before we jump on that band wagon? The company you cited has been buying other companies for years, so of course there is redundancy and they cut it.

    While you decry the causes, you fail to mention the offsets and tax breaks such companies get to lower their tax burden to very little or nothing. Like you say they do whatever they do to feed the profits. This is no different than business as usual.

    Wonder what their generous severance package entails? I wonder if the parachute is gold, silver, or bronze? Most telling you didn't cry before when we had massive layoffs, so why cry now?
  • Feb 3, 2013, 08:15 AM
    excon
    Hello again, tom:

    Quote:

    yeah keep being a skeptic as one company after the other reduces staffing and blames it on Obamacare . They are all a bunch of greedy criminals after all.
    Count me as a skeptic. You right wingers have NEVER said ANYTHING truthful about Obamacare, so I don't know WHY you'd start now...

    Nahhh, they're not greedy CRIMINALS, after all.. But, they ARE GREEDY bastards. Being a capitalist myself, I don't usually have a problem with GREED, but guys like Pappa John make Gordon Gekko look like a saint. Didn't HE lay off workers and blame it on Obamacare, REFUSING instead, to raise the price of his pizza's 11 CENTS?? Yup, he DID! Doesn't he live in a palatial zillion $$ mansion? He DOES!

    Are there other GREEDY SOB's like him?? Uhhhh, YES!

    Excon
  • Feb 3, 2013, 10:14 AM
    excon
    Hello again, tom:

    Quote:

    oh I expect the cost of that pizza would have to go up much higher than 11 cents to cover a national chain's employes.
    Quote:

    Papa John’s CEO John Schnatter said he plans on passing the costs of health care reform to his business onto his workers. Schnatter said he will likely reduce workers’ hours, as a result of President Obama's reelection, the Naples Daily News reports. Schnatter made headlines over the summer when he told shareholders that the cost of a Papa John’s pizza will increase by between 11 and 14 cents due to Obamacare.

    "I got in a bunch of trouble for this," he said, referring to the comments he made in August, according to Naples News. "That's what you do, is you pass on costs. Unfortunately, I don't think people know what they're going to pay for this."

    Schnatter went on to say he's neither in support of, nor against the Affordable Care Act, even admitting that "the good news is 100 percent of the population is going to have health insurance.” But he’s not the only one in the chain restaurant industry to admit that workers hours may be reduced, since Obamacare mandates that only employees that work more than 30 hours per week are covered under their employers health insurance plan. For example, Darden restaurants, the parent company of Olive Garden and Red Lobster, has already experimented with reducing workers hours in anticipation of the legislation.

    Others have responded to the added costs of Obamacare more harshly, including Applebee's franchisee owner Zane Tankel who said his company won’t hire new workers because of the law. Just this week, a Georgia business owner also claimed he cut employees due to Obamacare and in fact had specifically laid off those who he thought had voted for President Obama.
    Excon
  • Feb 3, 2013, 12:10 PM
    talaniman
    Back in my day we used to call such people reactionaries.

    Reactionary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Quote:

    A reactionary is an individual that holds political viewpoints which cause them to seek to return to a previous state (the status quo ante) in a society.
    Quote:

    The French Revolution gave the English language three politically descriptive words denoting anti-progressive politics: reactionary, conservative and right. Reactionary derives from the French word réactionnaire (an early nineteenth-century coinage), and conservative from conservateur, identifying monarchist parliamentarians opposed to the revolution.[4] In this French usage, reactionary denotes "a movement towards the reversal of an existing tendency or state" and a "return to a previous condition of affairs."
    My point in all of this is that what we have is the second coming of Enlightrnment, and you guys are on the wrong side of it. Now get off that freaking sack of loot you stole from the people.
  • Feb 3, 2013, 12:45 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, tom:

    Count me as a skeptic. You right wingers have NEVER said ANYTHING truthful about Obamacare, so I dunno WHY you'd start now...

    Now that's a flat out lie.
  • Feb 7, 2013, 03:31 PM
    speechlesstx
    Catholic bishops are not impressed with mandate 3.0.

    Quote:

    For almost a century, the Catholic bishops of the United States have worked hard to support the right of every person to affordable, accessible, comprehensive, life-affirming healthcare. As we continue to do so, our changeless values remain the same. We promote the protection of the dignity of all human life and the innate rights that flow from it, including the right to life from conception to natural death; care for the poorest among us and the undocumented; the right of the Church to define itself, its ministries, and its ministers; and freedom of conscience.

    Last Friday, the Administration issued a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) regarding the HHS mandate that requires coverage for sterilization and contraception, including drugs that may cause abortions. The Administration indicates that it has heard some previously expressed concerns and that it is open to dialogue. With release of the NPRM, the Administration seeks to offer a response to serious matters which have been raised throughout the past year. We look forward to engaging with the Administration, and all branches and levels of government, to continue to address serious issues that remain. Our efforts will require additional, careful study. Only in this way can we best assure that healthcare for every woman, man and child is achieved without harm to our first, most cherished freedom.

    In evaluating Friday’s action regarding the HHS mandate, our reference remains the statement of our Administrative Committee made last March, United for Religious Freedom, and affirmed by the entire body of bishops in June 2012.

    In that statement, we first expressed concern over the mandate’s “exceedingly narrow” four-part definition of “religious employer,” one that exempted our houses of worship, but left “our great ministries of service to our neighbors, namely, the poor, the homeless, the sick, the students in our schools and universities, and others in need” subject to the mandate. This created “a ‘second class’ of citizenship within our religious community,” “weakening [federal law’s] healthy tradition of generous respect for religious freedom and diversity.” And the exemption effectuated this distinction by requiring “among other things, [that employers] must hire and serve primarily those of their own faith.”

    On Friday, the Administration proposed to drop the first three parts of the four-part test. This might address the last of the concerns above, but it seems not to address the rest. The Administration’s proposal maintains its inaccurate distinction among religious ministries. It appears to offer second-class status to our first-class institutions in Catholic health care, Catholic education, and Catholic charities. HHS offers what it calls an “accommodation,” rather than accepting the fact that these ministries are integral to our Church and worthy of the same exemption as our Catholic churches. And finally, it seems to take away something that we had previously—the ability of an exempt employer (such as a diocese) to extend its coverage to the employees of a ministry outside the exemption.

    Second, United for Religious Freedom explained that the religious ministries not deemed “religious employers” would suffer the severe consequence of “be[ing] forced by government to violate their own teachings within their very own institutions.” After Friday, it appears that the government would require all employees in our “accommodated” ministries to have the illicit coverage—they may not opt out, nor even opt out for their children—under a separate policy. In part because of gaps in the proposed regulations, it is still unclear how directly these separate policies would be funded by objecting ministries, and what precise role those ministries would have in arranging for these separate policies. Thus, there remains the possibility that ministries may yet be forced to fund and facilitate such morally illicit activities. Here, too, we will continue to analyze the proposal and to advocate for changes to the final rule that reflect these concerns.

    Third, the bishops explained that the “HHS mandate creates still a third class, those with no conscience protection at all: individuals who, in their daily lives, strive constantly to act in accordance with their faith and moral values.” This includes employers sponsoring and subsidizing the coverage, insurers writing it, and beneficiaries paying individual premiums for it. Friday’s action confirms that HHS has no intention to provide any exemption or accommodation at all to this “third class.” In obedience to our Judeo-Christian heritage, we have consistently taught our people to live their lives during the week to reflect the same beliefs that they proclaim on the Sabbath. We cannot now abandon them to be forced to violate their morally well-informed consciences.

    Because the stakes are so high, we will not cease from our effort to assure that healthcare for all does not mean freedom for few. Throughout the past year, we have been assured by the Administration that we will not have to refer, pay for, or negotiate for the mandated coverage. We remain eager for the Administration to fulfill that pledge and to find acceptable solutions—we will affirm any genuine progress that is made, and we will redouble our efforts to overcome obstacles or setbacks. Thus, we welcome and will take seriously the Administration’s invitation to submit our concerns through formal comments, and we will do so in the hope that an acceptable solution can be found that respects the consciences of all. At the same time, we will continue to stand united with brother bishops, religious institutions, and individual citizens who seek redress in the courts for as long as this is necessary.

    Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York

    February 7, 2013
    The mandate basically redefines the church, which is exactly what's been done by those of you insisting church ministries should be treated as a business, and I believe this is all intentional. Come on admit it libs, you don't want the church to live its faith and serve people, that's the government's job, right?
  • Feb 7, 2013, 04:00 PM
    excon
    Hello again, Steve:

    Quote:

    Come on admit it libs, you don't want the church to live its faith and serve people,
    Would this be the SAME Catholic church that aided and abetted their priests in raping and molesting children the world over, and who then covered it up for DECADES, and is STILL covering it up?

    THAT Catholic church?? We need to send drones to the Vatican.

    Excon
  • Feb 7, 2013, 04:42 PM
    talaniman
    All due respect to the catholic church, but I find it expands the whole range of religious non profit organizations and allows contraceptive coverage to those that want it as a separate policy that the churches DOES NOT pay for.

    Interesting Stuff I Found While Reading the New HHS Mandate Rules

    Quote:

    The Departments propose two key changes to the preventive services coverage rules codified in 26 CFR 54.9815-2713T, 29 CFR 2590.715-2713, and 45 CFR 147.130 to meet these goals. First, the proposed rules would amend the criteria for the religious employer exemption to ensure that an otherwise exempt employer plan is not disqualified because the employer's purposes extend beyond the inculcation of religious values or because the employer serves or hires people of different religious faiths. Second, the proposed rules would establish accommodations for health coverage established or maintained by eligible organizations, or arranged by eligible organizations that are religious institutions of higher education, with religious objections to contraceptive coverage.

    This proposed definition of eligible organization is intended to allow health coverage established or maintained or arranged by nonprofit religious organizations, including nonprofit religious institutional health care providers, educational institutions, and charities, with religious objections to contraceptive coverage to qualify for an accommodation. For this purpose, an organization that is organized and operated as a nonprofit entity is not limited to any particular form of entity under state law, but may include organizations such as trusts and unincorporated associations, as well as nonprofit, not-for-profit, non-stock, public benefit, and similar types of corporations. However, for this purpose an organization is not considered to be organized and operated as a nonprofit entity if its assets or income accrue to the benefit of private individuals or shareholders.
    I see no class distinction in the church entities and cannot see what's wrong with a church employee essentially having a supplemental policy in addition to the church insurance. Its paid for by credits for the insurer of such policies, not the church so what's the real problem if its separate from the church?

    The White House's contraceptives compromise

    If the IRS can define a church why can't we use that since its been used for many decades now.

    http://krestaintheafternoon.blogspot...-welcomed.html

    Quote:

    While many aspects of the new proposal need to be examined before a final conclusion can be rendered, the decision to expand religious exemptions, and to adopt the IRS definition of a religious institution, is a sign of goodwill by the Obama administration toward the Catholic community.
  • Feb 8, 2013, 07:28 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    Would this be the SAME Catholic church that aided and abetted their priests in raping and molesting children the world over, and who then covered it up for DECADES, and is STILL covering it up??

    THAT Catholic church??? We need to send drones to the Vatican.

    excon

    THAT Catholic church that educates kids, feeds the hungry, shelters the homeless, heals the sick.
  • Feb 8, 2013, 07:34 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    All due respect to the catholic church, but I find it expands the whole range of religious non profit organizations and allows contraceptive coverage to those that want it as a separate policy that the churches DOES NOT pay for.

    Interesting Stuff I Found While Reading the New HHS Mandate Rules



    I see no class distinction in the church entities and cannot see what's wrong with a church employee essentially having a supplemental policy in addition to the church insurance. Its paid for by credits for the insurer of such policies, not the church so what's the real problem if its separate from the church?

    The White House’s contraceptives compromise

    All interesting twists on the truth. We weren't born yesterday, no amount of spin is going to change the facts.

    Quote:

    If the IRS can define a church why can't we use that since its been used for many decades now.

    Kresta In The Afternoon: Bill Donohue: New HHS Rules Welcomed
    Perhaps Bill should speak with the bishops.
  • Feb 8, 2013, 07:35 AM
    excon
    Hello again, Steve:

    Quote:

    THAT Catholic church that educates kids,
    Would you put YOUR kid into their clutches?? Of course, you wouldn't. You KNOW, like I KNOW, they haven't cleaned up their mess... Your local priest might be a MONSTER.

    If it were me, I'd REVOKE their tax exempt status. They're a CRIMINAL organization.. RICO would be TOO good for them.

    Excon
  • Feb 8, 2013, 07:45 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    THAT Catholic church that educates kids, feeds the hungry, shelters the homeless, heals the sick.
    The one that has ruined the lives of countless children... and they tried to cover it up. A sick organization.
  • Feb 8, 2013, 08:25 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    Would you put YOUR kid into their clutches??? Of course, you wouldn't. You KNOW, like I KNOW, they haven't cleaned up their mess... Your local priest might be a MONSTER.

    If it were me, I'd REVOKE their tax exempt status. They're a CRIMINAL organization.. RICO would be TOO good for them.

    excon

    I attended a Catholic school for a while actually and I see you've just abandoned first amendment deflections for downright attacks. You're just distracting again though, the priest scandal is irrelevant to the issue - our rights are at stake, Catholic or not.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    The one that has ruined the lives of countless children...and they tried to cover it up. A sick organization.

    Like I said, that's irrelevant to the issue. But this is what happens when you run out of defenses for taking away MY rights.
  • Feb 8, 2013, 08:33 AM
    excon
    Hello again, Steve:

    Are you talking about THIS Bill Donohue? The one who explains why victims of child abuse are a bunch of greedy, bigoted whiners?? He's an ENABLER. He should be LOCKED up!

    excon
  • Feb 8, 2013, 08:36 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Like I said, that's irrelevant to the issue. But this is what happens when you run out of defenses for taking away MY rights.
    You know it's the same argument you use with Planned Parenthood.
  • Feb 8, 2013, 08:43 AM
    excon
    Hello again, Steve:

    Quote:

    I see you've just abandoned first amendment deflections for downright attacks.
    Yeah, I'm pretty transparent, aren't I?

    Look, BEFORE I saw the movie Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa, I was WILLING to treat the church like an honest broker seeking a finding that was consistent with their faith..

    Having SEEN the movie, I see NOW that the COVERUP of child molestation, perpetrated on the world by the church, was ORCHESTRATED by the guy who is NOW Pope. The Catholic church is a CRIMINAL organization. Criminal organizations AREN'T entitled to 1st Amendment rights. I'm no longer going to treat them as I did before...

    Excon
  • Feb 8, 2013, 08:57 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    Are you talking about THIS Bill Donohue? The one who explains why victims of child abuse are a bunch of greedy, bigoted whiners??? He's an ENABLER. He should be LOCKED up!

    excon

    Talk to Tal, he's the one using Donohue to defend the 'compromise.'
  • Feb 8, 2013, 09:04 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    Yeah, I'm pretty transparent, aren't I?

    Look, BEFORE I saw the movie Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa, I was WILLING to treat the church like an honest broker seeking a finding that was consistent with their faith..

    Having SEEN the movie, I see NOW that the COVERUP of child molestation, perpetrated on the world by the church, was ORCHESTRATED by the guy who is NOW Pope. The Catholic church is a CRIMINAL organization. Criminal organizations AREN'T entitled to 1st Amendment rights. I'm no longer going to treat them as I did before...

    excon

    So you're willing to forsake the first amendment because of a movie? That's kind of ironic and weird.
  • Feb 8, 2013, 09:09 AM
    excon
    Hello again, Steve:

    Quote:

    So you're willing to forsake the first amendment because of a movie? That's kind of ironic and weird.
    Uhhh, not if the movie is telling the truth, and I BELIEVE every word. It would be weird NOT to react to what they did.

    Excon
  • Feb 8, 2013, 09:12 AM
    talaniman
    Just trying to present some facts and opinions that are outside the opinion of YOU, and the church. Despite the lawsuits, other churches, religions and businesses are on board with not only the accommodations put forth so far, but the level of effort, and commitment by this president.

    So the process continues.
  • Feb 8, 2013, 11:37 AM
    speechlesstx
    I believe his level of commitment to 'compromise' is driven by the court issuing a mandate of their own, and seeing as how the latest version is just another shell game. On to other features of Obamacare, the 'family penalty.'

    HHS 'family penalty' rule passes buck
  • Feb 8, 2013, 01:44 PM
    talaniman
    You are so pessimistic, so not condusive to making adjustments as you go. Makes a tough journey even tougher.
  • Feb 8, 2013, 02:04 PM
    smearcase
    " On to other features of Obamacare, the 'family penalty. "

    Sounds like Nancy was wrong when she said we had to pass it to find out what was in it. Looks more like having to operate under it for a year or so before all the ramifications are discovered. Maybe the real plan is to get things so screwed up that single payer will have to be implemented as an emergency measure.
  • Feb 8, 2013, 02:40 PM
    tomder55
    There's no maybe about it. That's the plan.
  • Feb 8, 2013, 02:48 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    You are so pessimistic, so not condusive to making adjustments as you go. Makes a tough journey even tougher.

    Dude, I don't like passing laws to find out what's in them and that was Politico reporting, not Freerepublic.
  • Feb 8, 2013, 02:57 PM
    tomder55
    And Paul Krugman who made a speech and said that to pay for the society the left envisions that we need middle class sales taxes and "death panels "(his words ;not Palin's)
  • Feb 8, 2013, 04:32 PM
    smearcase
    Combine the reference from Politico that speech posted with the comments by George Will linked in my earlier post (#16) and here are a few excerpts from that post:

    "A willow, not an oak. So said conservatives of Chief Justice John Roberts when he rescued the Affordable Care Act -- aka Obamacare -- from being found unconstitutional. But the manner in which he did this may have made the ACA unworkable, thereby putting it on a path to ultimate extinction.
    This plausible judgment comes from professor Thomas A. Lambert of the University of Missouri Law School, writing in Regulation quarterly, a publication of the libertarian Cato Institute. The crucial decision, he says, was four liberal justices joining Roberts' opinion declaring that the ACA's penalty for not complying with the mandate to purchase health insurance is actually a tax on not purchasing it. With this reasoning, the court severely limited the ability of the new health care regime to cope with its own predictable consequences."
    (One paragraph not quoted)

    "This did not, however, doom the ACA because Roberts invoked what Lambert calls “a longstanding interpretive canon that calls for the court, if possible, to interpret statutes in a way that preserves their constitutionality.” Roberts did this by ruling that what Congress called a “penalty” for not obeying the mandate was really a tax on noncompliance. This must, Lambert thinks, have momentous -- and deleterious -- implications for the functioning of the ACA. The problems arise from the interplay of two ACA provisions -- “guaranteed issue” and “community rating."
    3 paragraphs not quoted

    "So, Lambert says, the ACA's penalties are too low to prod the healthy to purchase insurance, even given ACA's subsidies for purchasers. The ACA's authors probably understood this perverse incentive and assumed that once Congress passed the ACA with penalties low enough to be politically palatable, Congress could increase them.
    But Roberts' decision limits Congress' latitude by holding that the small size of the penalty is part of the reason it is, for constitutional purposes, a tax. It is not a “financial punishment” because it is not so steep that it effectively prohibits the choice of paying it. And, Roberts noted, “by statute, it can never be more.” As Lambert says, the penalty for refusing to purchase insurance counts as a tax only if it remains so small as to be largely ineffective.
    Unable to increase penalties substantially, Congress, in the context of “guaranteed issue” and “community rating,” has only one way to induce healthy people to purchase insurance. This is by the hugely expensive process of increasing premium subsidies enough to make negligible the difference between the cost of insurance to purchasers and the penalty for not purchasing. Republicans will ferociously resist exacerbating the nation's financial crisis in order to rescue the ACA.
    Because the penalties are “constitutionally” limited by the reasoning whereby Roberts declared them taxes, he may have saved the ACA's constitutionality by sacrificing its feasibility. So as the president begins his second term, the signature achievement of his first term looks remarkably rickety. "
    (end of article)

    The potential situation discussed in the Politico article affecting family coverage will have to be addressed and may be the straw that breaks the camel's back as discussed in the Will comments.
  • Feb 8, 2013, 04:40 PM
    excon
    Hello again,

    Yeah, it needs to be tweaked... Medicare for all would work, and we could write the law on ONE page..

    The truth is, I'd RATHER have the free market system, as it was designed to be... But, when the market starts SCREWING the people, it's time for government intervention.

    Not only would Medicare for all SOLVE the Obamacare 2.0 problem, but it would save us BILLIONS and BILLIONS of $$$'s.

    And THAT, my friends, would SAVE the country.

    excon
  • Feb 8, 2013, 05:45 PM
    tomder55
    Medicare pays out only pennies on the dollar compared to private insurers ,and yet Medicare hemorrhages taxpayer's dollars .For the calendar year 2011, the Medicare receipts were $306.7 billion, while the expenditures were $549.1 billion, a loss of $242.4 billion. That's with the baby boomers only now getting into retirement and Medicare eligibility . The system now has 3 workers for every retiree receiving benefits ;but that ratio is rapidly decreasing .
    Unless we reign in Medicare expenses, the amount of money that we spend on on the entitlement will continue to grow as a percent of the economy and as percent of government spending .And that's before you would make it universal.
  • Feb 8, 2013, 05:48 PM
    paraclete
    Don't worry Tom the nanny state is here to stay. Cwrongress has no intention of decreasing any expenditure, so you can only hope those job creators will start spending soon
  • Feb 8, 2013, 06:01 PM
    talaniman
    Its like anything else we have ever done. We start building and see what it looks like when we finish it. Ugly as building this nation was, we are still building. Heck they tweak social security and medicare every few years too.

    The wingers cry about that too, so why are we surprised they cry now? Don't let the gloom and doom crowd fool you though, they will take the benefits like everyone else. I mean they think the sky is falling on sunny days too.

    They holler about what won't work, offer no real alternative that will, just tear it down. Then years later they still think its not working but has anyone seen a TParty type stick to their principles and refuse those social security checks, or NOT sign up for Medicare?

    Yet still they cry about getting the government out of their lives. Except when there is money or benefits to be had. No wonder they cry about the 47% being lazy, because they are part of that too. What you think that all poor people where lazy democrats, and liberals?

    They fooled you so you must be a republican listening to the TParty crying. The rest of us ignore the gloom and doom crying, and the kicking and screaming. They will be right with us in line to get there cut of the pie.
  • Feb 8, 2013, 06:13 PM
    paraclete
    Tal I find it amazing, all the whinging and complaining, here we have various medical benefits, some of which are inadequate, but I don't hear anyone complaining that the scheme should pay less, or that certain people should be excluded.

    I think I will put Tom down as a whinger and move on
  • Feb 8, 2013, 08:10 PM
    talaniman
    The righties don't want you to even think of other options or opportunities except gloom, doom, lets just don't try. That's unnacceptable to the left.
  • Feb 8, 2013, 09:39 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Thats unnacceptable to the left.

    You talk about left but you guys aren't really left, you are more like all in the centre with left and right tendencies. You should experience what some real lefties are like, mad ideas, big taxes, big expenditure programs
  • Feb 9, 2013, 02:22 AM
    tomder55
    When the system comes crashing down ;don't blame me.
    Trustees warn of looming insolvency for Social Security, Medicare - Los Angeles Times

    http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/02/...share_facebook
  • Feb 9, 2013, 04:00 AM
    paraclete
    Why should we tom you are part of the SYStem, that group whowants nothing to change
  • Feb 9, 2013, 04:34 AM
    tomder55
    Oh I have some great ideas for change. You won't like them however .

    Quote:

    DR. CARSON: Here's my solution: When a person is born, give him a birth certificate, an electronic medical record, and a health savings account to which money can be contributed -- pretax -- from the time you're born 'til the time you die. When you die, you can pass it on to your family members, so that when you're 85 years old and you got six diseases, you're not trying to spend up everything. You're happy to pass it on and there's nobody talking about death panels.

    Number one. And also, for the people who were indigent who don't have any money we can make contributions to their HSA each month because we already have this huge pot of money. Instead of sending it to some bureaucracy, let's put it in their HSAs. Now they have some control over their own health care.
    (21:15 mark... but watch the whole address)

    Dr. Benjamin Carson's Amazing Speech at the National Prayer Breakfast with Obama Present - YouTube
  • Feb 9, 2013, 09:04 AM
    talaniman
    Trustees warn of looming insolvency for Social Security, Medicare - Los Angeles Times

    Quote:

    Medicare, which is expected to provide health insurance to more than 50 million elderly and disabled Americans this year, is expected to start operating in the red in its largest fund in 2024, according to the annual assessment by the trustees charged with overseeing the programs.
    The Obama tweaks are what extended the solvency of the program, and has traditionally been such tweaks done before after a warning of insolvency by the trustees.

    3 Social Security Shockers From the CBO's Latest Report - DailyFinance

    Quote:

    Over the last three decades, the two political parties have periodically forged compromises that extended the solvency of Medicare and Social Security. At one point in the mid-1990s, Medicare's hospital trust fund was projected to run out of money in just four years, before an improving economy and a budget deal between Democrats and Republicans headed off disaster.

    It is unclear whether a similar compromise is possible in today's hyper-partisan environment.
    That's the bigger issue, not the money, but a collective agreement how toaddressthe issues as been done before. But I also had to note the solution further down at he botom of the article you cited.

    Quote:

    There's little you can do to stop the collapse of the Social Security Trust Funds, but you can improve your chances for a comfortable retirement anyway. A strong investing approach is to choose great companies and stick with them for the long term. In our free report "3 Stocks That Will Help You Retire Rich," we name stocks that could help you build long-term wealth and retire well, along with some winning wealth-building strategies that every investor should be aware of. Click here now to keep reading.
    Somebody is always looking to cash in on any issue. Must be a capitalist seeing opportunity.

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