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Originally Posted by paraclete

Just lucky I guess or perhaps someone up there likes you

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Nope. I'm pretty sure it's because I'm a diligent good driver. I take responsibility for both the good and the bad. I don't believe in luck, I'm not superstitious.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Nope. I'm pretty sure it's because I'm a diligent good driver. I take responsibility for both the good and the bad. I don't believe in luck, I'm not superstitious.

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You are a rare breed then all we got around here are yahoo's

Liberum Arbitrium.. Humans are responsible for their actions and the consequences of their actions .

So praying is pointless then as well.

This depends upon who you ask. Without a relationship with God, we call him Jesus around here, you had better be sure what you are asking for lines up exactly with his Word

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So praying is pointless then as well.

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I believe that would be what you call a red herring.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I believe that would be what you call a red herring.

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You don't see a disparity between praying for something and "humans are responsible for their actions and the consequences of their actions"?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You don't see a disparity between praying for something and "humans are responsible for their actions and the consequences of their actions"?

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No, I see you changing the subject. The fact that we are responsible for our actions does not render prayer irrelevant.

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But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

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Matthew 6

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

The fact that we are responsible for our actions does not render prayer irrelevant.

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So those prayers circles or request for prayers for a sick person, or people praying before sports events for them to dominate, those are not in conflict with responsibility for own actions? Just wondering.

Just religion in action, if you pray for a sick person the Biblical method is to lay hands on them or anoint them with oil, Christianity is a hands on relationship. This idea is therefore unbiblical and outside God's Word, just more religion

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Who here will participate?

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Hello NK:

Not me... I took part in National Dance Day a while back.. I prayed to Jesus to make me a good dancer.. Didn't work.

Now, you want me to ask him to drive my car??

excon

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So those prayers circles or request for prayers for a sick person, or people praying before sports events for them to dominate, those are not in conflict with responsibility for own actions? Just wondering.

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First of all, praying before a sporting event to "dominate" the opponent is probably rare and it's misguided. I've never, ever heard such a prayer at a sporting event so I'm going to call that another fallacy.

Generally it's a prayer for safety for the most part and I'm positive God answers those prayers on a regular basis. Doesn't mean you won't get bumps and bruises, that's a consequence for your actions. But it could be worse. So you got cancer from smoking, you're going through the consequences but it doesn't mean God won't grant a positive outcome.

For example, I bet Mark Martin had God on his side Sunday...



Maybe Jesus took the wheel.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Maybe Jesus took the wheel.

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Hello Steve:

Or, maybe the SCIENCE of momentum prevailed... Nahhh... That science stuff ain't got nuthin to do with it...

Bwa, ha ha ha.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello Steve:

Or, maybe the SCIENCE of momentum prevailed... Nahhh... That science stuff ain't got nuthin to do with it...

Bwa, ha ha ha.

excon

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I acknowledged the laws of nature several pages ago. Bwa ha ha!!

Momentum carried him into that wall, aerodynamics, gravity, a lot of forces were in play... nice scientific stuff. He still crashed hard, but who's to say God didn't keep that car from smashing into that barrier a foot closer to the front of the car?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

For example, I bet Mark Martin had God on his side Sunday...

Maybe Jesus took the wheel.

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What would you say if the same thing happened to an atheist?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

What would you say if the same thing happened to an atheist?

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Or if the atheist survived a smashup and the Christian didn't?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

but who's to say God didn't keep that car from smashing into that barrier

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Hello again, Steve:

Me. I was watching.. Mark Martin is MY man... I saw his car approaching the wall.. I WILLED it not to hit, and it didn't. Who's to say that I didn't keep him safe?

excon

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

What would you say if the same thing happened to an atheist?

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God doesn't love atheists?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Or if the atheist survived a smashup and the Christian didn't?

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What if?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Or if the atheist survived a smashup and the Christian didn't?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

What if?

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Where was God?

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

Me. I was watching.. Mark Martin is MY man... I saw his car approaching the wall.. I WILLED it not to hit, and it didn't. Who's to say that I didn't keep him safe?

excon

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Oh but it did hit. And if you were a god I wouldn't be kicking your a$$ in baseball again. :p

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Where was God?

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You think He left?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

You think He left?

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He saved the atheist and not the Christian?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

You think He left?

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So much for personal responsibility again. Apparently we are all controlled by a being in the sky.

I was under the impression God loved ALL his children? I guess I don't know. I'm not sure I even belong on this thread...

Yes It God loves all his Children but in order to enjoy his blessings you need a relationship with him. Not everything I do would necessarily please my father, but if we are close we can work it out.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

He saved the atheist and not the Christian?

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Do you have a problem with that? I don't.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So much for personal responsibility again. Apparently we are all controlled by a being in the sky.

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Presence = control? You need a dictionary?

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Yes It God loves all his Children but in order to enjoy his blessings you need a relationship with him.

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Apparently that isn't so. I have zero relationship with any god and I seem to be protected.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Presence = control? You need a dictionary?

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So he's just 'there' but never does anything? Weird.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So he's just 'there' but never does anything? Weird.

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And you're a parent?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

And you're a parent?

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I'm an awesome parent at that! I am active in my parenting. I show them stuff, teach them stuff, take them places, mend their wounds, etc... I don't even require that my kids get on their knees and worship me. Cool eh?

But you never let them do their own thing?

Sure I do.
If you're equating this to your god, this'll be interesting.

Equating? No, just demonstrating the obvious you can't seem to recognize.

Ok, explain the obvious I am missing.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
So much for personal responsibility again. Apparently we are all controlled by a being in the sky.

Presence = control? You need a dictionary?

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So you are active in parenting, "show them stuff, teach them stuff, take them places, mend their wounds, etc." but you still let them do their own thing.

What's the difference?

Do you actually hear voices in your head from your god? Does he come down and pick you up after you fell of your bike?

Sigh... the issue was "Presence = control?" Obviously presence does not equal control.