So there is no voter fraud so don't worry keeping our elections honest. In other words, being vigilant to maintain the integrity of the vote is just plain silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
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So there is no voter fraud so don't worry keeping our elections honest. In other words, being vigilant to maintain the integrity of the vote is just plain silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
We know how it works Carol, but I have never once been allowed to vote without them requiring me to present my voter registration card or a valid ID to prove I am who I say am. What's the big deal?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
It's silly as hell to me for anyone like ex and our own DoJ to fight tooth and nail against maintaining the integrity of our elections. When did honesty and integrity cease to be a virtue?
Wow! I NEVER have been asked to provide ID at the polling place. I've even offered and was told no. My name was checked off on the big list.
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
When there's absolutely NO evidence whatsoever, of the integrity of our vote being BREACHED, then yes, worrying about it IS silly.
You make it sound like there's NO protections at all - that ANYBODY can just waltz in and vote.. You seem to forget the registration process. You need to show ID to register. If Jose showed up at the polls and wasn't registered, he can't vote.
Here's another thing that's silly. You think that an illegal alien, who's afraid of being deported, who won't file a tax return to get his withholding taxes back, would gleefully walk into a government space and put his LIBERTY at risk to cast a fraudulent vote... Thinking that THAT is a plausible scenario is UNBELIEVABLY silly..
excon
Been voting since 1978 and have always had to present one or the other. Then they check me off the big list. I don't get what the big deal is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Sunland Park ex-employees indicted for voter fraud
Democrat admits role in voter fraud case
Related...Quote:
Former Troy City Clerk William A. McInerney pleaded guilty Friday to a charge that he signed a voter's signature to a Working Families Party absentee primary ballot in 2009 to steer the vote to his Democratic Party candidates...
Working Family Party voters were targeted in 2009. Some were not fluent in English, and one is deaf. Besides forging voters' signatures, there are allegations that candidates and party workers wrote fictitious reasons on the ballot applications for why the person could not vote at the polls.
State Police arrested McInerney Aug. 8 on 10 felony counts accusing him of handling forged absentee-ballot applications for Democratic and Working Families voters in 2007 and 2008. Smith said those counts pending in Troy City Court will be dropped when McInerney is sentenced at a later date.
In January, the grand jury indicted Democratic Elections Commissioner Edward McDonough and Councilman Michael LoPorto on 116 counts of forgery and falsifying business records. Both pleaded not guilty and await trial.
McDonough and LoPorto are among nine Democrats identified by the special prosecutor in previous legal papers as part of the ballot-fraud probe.
Also named are Council President Clement Campana; Councilmen John Brown, Gary Galuski and Kevin McGrath; and party operatives Dan Brown, who is John Brown's brother, and Anthony DeFiglio, a former Troy Housing Authority clerk.
Officials Plead Guilty in New York Voter Fraud Case
Davis shifts on voter IDQuote:
Numerous voters told Fox News that they were stunned that their signatures were faked on absentee ballot applications and ballots, which were cast as real votes in their names in the 2009 primary election.
Brian Suozzo's absentee ballot application claimed that he was "at home recovering from medical procedure," which he told us was not true.
"Someone took my signature and voted with it and I feel extremely violated," Suozzo said when Fox News first broke the story nationally in 2009. "The whole thing seems dirty to me."...
In November 2009, Democratic operative Anthony DeFiglio told New York State police investigators that faking absentee ballots was a commonplace and accepted practice in political circles, all intended to swing an election.
"This is an on-going scheme and it occurs on both sides of the aisle," he told police. "The people who are targeted live in low-income housing and there is a sense that they are a lot less likely to ask any questions."
He said that "it was common knowledge that these people were never going to receive an absentee ballot. This is a political strategy to get control of a third party line."
Next?Quote:
Artur Davis's voice is a pretty meaningful one in this debate:
The truth is that the most aggressive contemporary voter suppression in the African American community, at least in Alabama, is the wholesale manufacture of ballots, at the polls and absentee, in parts of the Black Belt.
Voting the names of the dead, and the nonexistent, and the too-mentally-impaired to function, cancels out the votes of citizens who are exercising their rights -- that's suppression by any light. If you doubt it exists, I don't; I've heard the peddlers of these ballots brag about it, I've been asked to provide the funds for it, and I am confident it has changed at least a few close local election results.
There is no question that a voter ID law, in order to pass legal muster and in order to be just, must have certain characteristics. It should contain exceptions for the elderly or disabled who may not drive, and as a consequence lack the most conventional ID, a driver's license. There should also be a process for non-drivers to obtain a photo ID, and the process has to be cost-free, for the simple reason that even a nominal financial impediment to voting looks and feels too much like a poll tax.
P.S. Plenty of illegals file tax returns, too. The IRS makes it easy for them.
Illegal Aliens Receive Billions in IRS Tax Benefits
Every one of your objections has been put to rest, so give it up dude. If one person casts a vote illegally that cancels my legal vote and as Davis put it, "that's suppression by any light."Quote:
On July 7, 2011, the U.S. Department of Treasury's inspector general for tax administration issued a startling report entitled “Individuals Who Are Not Authorized to Work in the United States Were Paid $4.2 Billion in Refundable Credits.”
No wonder the nation’s finances are in turmoil.
According to the Treasury report, foreign nationals not authorized to work in the United States and ineligible for a Social Security Number (SSN) are nevertheless receiving government help from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). The IRS currently issues undocumented aliens an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) to facilitate their filing of tax returns.
Many illegal workers are paid in cash “under the table” and thus file no tax forms at all; but a number of undocumented workers, according to the Treasury report, are receiving public benefits contrary to federal and state laws.
For example, the Child Tax Credit (CTC) and the Additional Child Tax Credit (ACTC) allow payment of federal funds as tax benefits to undocumented aliens. Add to these the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), and the result is tax refunds that provide incentives for foreign nationals to enter, reside, and work in the United States without authorization and in violation of current U.S. immigration law.
The CTC, ACTC, and EITC have come under review because of the significant volume of Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) returns filing for these credits using fraudulent data, such as names and SSNs.
The Treasury report notes that the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA) temporarily increased ACTC eligibility by changing the income threshold for calculating the credits in 2009 and 2010. The result was that in 2010, undocumented alien (ITIN) filers were able to claim higher tax refunds that totaled $4.2 billion. They represent an increase from $924 million in 2005.
It is clear that unauthorized aliens are filing ITIN tax returns with fraudulent data. The Treasury report found that “One common type of fraudulent refund involves taxpayers fabricating a Wage and Tax Statement (Form W-2) that shows excess withholding and results in a tax refund.”
Street-smart illegal immigrants are wise to the federal government’s incompetence.
But it isn't the illegal immigrants themselves defrauding. It's politicians doing it. So how would my showing ID at the polling place counter that?
Here in bluest of blue NY ,they make us sign our name into a log book that has a duplicate of the last signature provided the last time we voted. The poll watchers look at the signature for obvious discrepencies. Sometimes they will ask for secondary documents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
What about absentee ballots? Signature on the application? That's the case in Illinois.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
The argument at the moment is voter fraud, does that not count? If Joe Schmoe had to prove he was those 11 people he voted as fraudulently, he'd have to have 11 IDs would he not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Let's get real.. Did I expect that you'd be able to come up with ISOLATED cases of voter fraud?? Of course, I did. Does it change the thrust of my argument?? Of course, it doesn't.
Here's a link of my own: in this voter ID study, voter fraud is even RARER than the odds of winning Mega Millions
excon
But is wasn't Joe. It was Blagojevich and thousands of voter names.
Lol Named after Associate Justice William J Brennan, Jr.;one of the most radical progressive members of the Supreme Court in history. Sort of gives you an idea of their slant. From WIKI Justice Brennan's idea of a living constitution figures largely into the center's work
If you look at the cartoon added to their report ,you can clearly see that they had preconceived outcome in mind.
The Truth About Fraud
Did I not make myself clear? One fraudulent vote cancels my legitimate vote. Works that way for you too, buddy. You may not care if your vote counts or not but I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
I wanted to count on you to keep your word but no, you keep changing the terms.
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
We're on the same page. It bums me out too, when, and or/if somebody casts a fraudulent vote in opposition to mine. But, when the cure cancels out the vote of many hundreds of thousands of legitimate voters, on balance, I'd be willing to suffer the loss of just mine.
excon
I believe tom has already answered those objections quite thoroughly, so now we're back to square one?
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
He did?? What did he say? That poor people WITHOUT the proper ID can pick them up downtown? What's the big deal?? So what if you don't drive? You can learn - even if you're 85. It doesn't cost too much. So what if you don't have a birth certificate? You can get one, maybe..
Then there's the MAJORITY of the states that DO charge for the new ID on top of all those other hurdles... Nahhh... Many hundreds of thousands of American citizens will be DENIED their right to vote if these Jim Crow laws continue. That IS the intention of these laws. Either you KNOW it, or you're too ashamed to admit it.
So, if tom addressed it somewhere, I'm addressing it back.
excon
I already linked to their ability to get an id mail order . Yes I've answered all the objections.. For at least Pennsylania... your concerns are misplaced . I have not reseached every other state . My solution would be a national photo id... but I understand that in our system ;States run elections and are permitted to make rules ,that don't violate the voting rights act . If this law is unconstitutional take it to court . Have Holder file charges .
Give me the state you want me to research and I'll get back to you on the charge that the Majority of them have no provisions for free photo id. Your posting was about PA. I gave you all the facts about PA and threw in RI for a bonus.
Right, so Artur Davis, noted black Democrat formerly representing Alabama's 7the district in the House, changed his mind and is now FOR Jim Crow laws.
You drank the koolaid, come on - admit it.
I think Metts put his finger on the big deal .Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
"Historically, when Black people know the rules of the game they follow them to the letter and participate in the process. I take exception to those who give credence to stereotypes about our alleged inability or limited intelligence to participate in the democratic process. Moreover, as a candidate, I will make certain that those supporting me have a voter I.D. or know about the provisional ballot."
.
Yes sir, It's just like the life of Julia - poor thing just can't make it without the government's help. Voter ID laws just might let the cat out of the bag that blacks aren't as helpless as their Democrat masters keep telling them they are.
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
I've admonished you before about bolstering your arguments with obscure people. In this internet age, you can find ANY nut willing to say ANY nutty thing..
From MY point of view, it doesn't bolster anything. Besides, you're from the south. Haven't you heard of plantation overseer's. They're black people who SUPPORTED Jim Crow laws during slavery. Why couldn't this guy be doing it now?
excon
Artur Davis is now obscure and an uncle Tom.. I get it . That's what happens to any black person who doesn't toe the progressive line.
Here's the Wiki bio of obscure Art Davis
Artur Genestre Davis (born October 9, 1967) is a former Democratic Party member of the United States House of Representatives for Alabama's 7th congressional district, serving from 2003 to 2011. Davis was a candidate for Alabama's Democratic Gubernatorial Primary, 2010, but lost the Democratic primary to Ron Sparks. In December 2011, he left the Democratic party to become an independent, and he confirmed in May 2012 that he was considering running for Congress as a Republican.[1] In 2012 he became a visiting fellow at the Harvard Institute of Politics.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
You bring up people who vote against their own interests as proof that they're NOT voting against their own interests. I'm simply suggesting that they are.
excon
BuzzFeed Editor Ben Smith said "Artur Davis's voice is a pretty meaningful one in this debate." He's right, he's not "obscure people."
P.S. I live in the Texas panhandle, there are no plantations.
P.P.S. Just admit, no amount of proof that you're wrong will convince you to keep your word and support voter ID laws.
Why are voter ID laws needed?
And again, back to square one. SMH...
Here is some you might want to take a look at. From yesterdays headlines up until today's.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-von-spakovsky
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/...ete_idiot.html
Who is registering illegals?
Another interesting note, Artur Davis was the guy who gave Obama's nominating speech at the 2008 Democratic convention. Now he's just an obscure Uncle Tom?
One of the articles Cal links to provides the answer :Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-von-spakovskyQuote:
The weaknesses of the current registration system are to blame. First, in order to make registration easier, federal laws do not require proof of citizenship when registering, and states routinely offer registration to anyone getting a driver's license, regardless of citizenship. Moreover, federal agencies in charge of immigration and customs enforcement refuse to comply with a federal law that requires them to cooperate with election officials in checking the citizenship status of registered voters. Overall, this amounts to an “honor” system — expecting immigrants, including those who broke the law to come here, to obey the law.
And even if an illegal alien would normally follow the rules, federal law provides an incentive for him to register to vote: Voter-registration cards, obtainable after a limited or no identification check, can be used to verify legal work status. They can also help when it comes to drivers' licenses.
Sounds like a short path to citizenship, if you have a voter registration card who is going to question if you are a citizen?
Hello again,
Steve talks about his vote not being canceled out by an illegal vote. I agree with him. Where I DISAGREE is in disenfranchising a HALF MILLION registered voters so he can feel good about his ONE vote.
That's what's happening in Pennsylvania. That's what this video confirms.
Rumor has it, that Roberts WANTS an opportunity to OVERTURN the provision in the Voters Rights Act of 1965 that protects minorities rights to vote. That'll suck.
excon
You think because the media spins that "758,939 voters...could not be matched in state databases as having Pennsylvania driver's licenses" that a half million people are going to be denied their vote?
That's just one form of ID and tom has already shown there is no burden on voters to obtain an ID. I realize asking citizens to take responsibility for themselves is so passé, but face it, if some PA voter is prohibited from voting it's their own fault.
The part of the Voting Rights Act that is currently going through the court system is Section 5 .Section 5 requires several southern states to get federal “pre-clearance” before they change any voting eligibility laws or voting requirements or procedures. It is a part of the act that needs Congressional renewal periodically .In 2006 it was extended for 25 years. . Why wasn't it a permanent part of the law ? Because the authors of the Voting Rights act envisioned a day when the section would not be needed.
The question then becomes ,is it still needed ? It has nothing to do with the voter id issue in PA
.
But it is worthy of discussion.
John Roberts in 'Northwest Austin Municipal Utility District No. One v. Holder' opined ,in the majority opinion that upheld the Voting Rights Act ,that Section 5 was of questionable Constitutionality . He warned Congress to fix it before another case reaches SCOTUS . (note he did not rewrite the law like he did with Obamacare ) .
The case in Kingston NC is an interesting case . The city approved by a huge 2:1 margin ,a referendum for a nonpartisan ballot .Party affiliation of the candidates would not be identified on the ballot . Sec 5 says that any change like that has to be approved by the DOJ . Last year, Holder refused to approve the referendum stating that “elimination of party affiliation on the ballot will likely reduce the ability of blacks to elect candidates of choice.” HUH ? To that I restate Metts : "I take exception to those who give credence to stereotypes about our alleged inability or limited intelligence to participate in the democratic process."
The problem here is not racial discrimination... it is progressive paternalism.
But it also is a tool of the Dems. Redistricting is used by the majority party in all states for political advantage . I consider myself a victim of redistricting .My district was eliminated and the Dems did a ridiculous gerrymander to add my town into a district 2 counties away. I could claim that there were racial factors that went into the decision. But I don't . NY of course does not have to have it's redistricting approved by the DOJ because we know that NY politicians would never use issues of race for their advantage. But States that are now challenging the Sec 5 provisions think that the time for the need of the provision are long gone ;and the Sec itself has always been unconstitutional under the 5th ,14th ,and 15th amendments .
If indeed this was about fair elections and integrity, then the proper transition period would have been considered, and a fair thoughtful process would have been arranged to help those with difficulties or needs be guided through the process.
Not a big push to purge and obstruct voters from exercising their rights. Look I agree with EVERY American having an ID. Not just for voting but for all the modern transactions people do in modern day life. Including catching a bus to work.
But seeing as how the Bush election was so totally screwed up, and the fears of conservatives about what ifs, maybes, then this push to get a law in place in time for THIS election, just smells rotten. Like point shaving, except with the rights of people.
Given that PA repubs have admitted what their agenda is, as this is an old story, and they have been trying for two years to nullify PA voters, maybe accommodation, and education instead of obstacles would be in order.
Sometimes its not what you do, its how, and slow moving republicans who move very fast in one direction is nothing but fear, which they magnified in there own minds.
Why else would you as a lawmaker enact laws that years of research and data says that the probability of voter fraud is so low that the governor of PA never prosecuted one case when he was the states attorney?
The real agenda is clear for the conservatives, make any excuse to subvert the rights of others, and then blame them. Now maybe not ALL the conservatives are so scared of the changing world, but the ones that are make a lot of noise.
Sorry guys, but these shenanigans are going on in nearly every state that has gone red, on many issues across the board. That's a lot of effort to elect a guy who was like the last guy you sent to Washington, but on steroids. No wonder you exaggerate and lie about the guy we sent to the White House.
Tal ,arrangements have been made as I've documented already. However ,you make a valid point with the transition period.Quote:
If indeed this was about fair elections and integrity, then the proper transition period would have been considered, and a fair thoughtful process would have been arranged to help those with difficulties or needs be guided through the process.
The rest of your rant is too ridiculous .
Proper Spelling of "Ridiculous"Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Glad you found something useful to do on these boards .
Thanks man. I'm sure my 8661 rep score to your 1746 rep score means nothing. But try to put me down some more, that's how the 'right' seems to function with people of differing opinions.
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