Those 70 million want their contraception! You lose! LOL!
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Those 70 million want their contraception! You lose! LOL!
Then they will vote appropriately..
Correct. I sense that they would be less full of indignation than you due to their being less full of hate.
You know nothing .
The only faulty arguments so far in this discussion are yours. This decision has been roundly criticized by both left and right. Even USA Today said yesterday in response to Sebelius' spurious argument that it still protects religious rights that the "Contraception mandate violates religious freedom".Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
They are right, it does violate religious freedom. It's that simple to most everyone but you.
You should read the article, it's not as cut and dried as you try to make it appear to be. Also it's an editorial piece.
Hello again, Steve:
I'm not impressed with WHO likes the decision and WHO doesn't. There are a lot of Catholics on BOTH sides of the aisle. MOST people don't view the First Amendment like I do. As you know, I'm pretty much an absolutest.. I believe our government cannot tell a church HOW to be a church...
But, when a church decides to be something OTHER than a church, then they should be treated exactly like the other entities involved in the same activity... If a church WANTS the protections the Constitution grants them, they need to BE a church. So, I dispute the headline above. A hospital, even if it's run and owned by a church, is still a HOSPITAL and NOT a church.
excon
So my solution is the right one . Shut them all down and let's see the government screw ups try to run them.
BUT, you think forcing them out of their ministries is OK because money exchanges hands? That's what this is you know, a ministry, an extension of the church.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Again, it is a MINISTRY of the church. It is an EXTENSION of the church, and it has been that way for ages. I'm with tom, let's just close all church ministries that aren't specifically a house of worship; hospitals, clinics, day cares, schools, orphanages, feeding centers, food pantries, homeless shelters, disaster relief teams, domestic violence centers, etc. and let the government - or you - take care of everyone. You're not going to like the results when the church is taken out of the equation.Quote:
But, when a church decides to be something OTHER than a church, then they should be treated exactly like the other entities involved in the same activity... If a church WANTS the protections the Constitution grants them, they need to BE a church. So, I dispute the headline above. A hospital, even if it's run and owned by a church, is still a HOSPITAL and NOT a church.
Nope, the free market cures all ills - remember?
Duh.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
And, if I wanted First Amendment protections, I'd say that too...
But, I've been to a church, and I've been to a hospital.. They AIN'T the same thing. They're not even close.
Let me ask you this.. Let's say I started the Church of Blessed Marijuana. Would I be protected? Why not? Under the First Amendment, I absolutely believe that I SHOULD be protected. But, if I opened a medical cannabis dispensary, I'd need a city license, and I'd need to pay sales tax... No??
excon
You still ignore history. If it weren't for the church you might not even have a hospital. Here's the story of one of ours:Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
It is a fantastic hospital, one of the best in the country and I wasn't using mere words looking for first amendment protection - history is on my side. You'd be OK with it shutting down rather than violate its beliefs. We wouldn't.Quote:
On February 13, 1901, four young women from the Sisters of Charity of the Incarnate Word in San Antonio arrived in Amarillo to start a health care facility that would meet the medical needs of the 1,422 citizens of Amarillo and the Texas Panhandle. The facility was named St. Anthony’s Hospital. These remarkable women faced many challenges and hardships including cold winters, the remoteness of the building with no means of transportation, and most of all an atmosphere of mistrust by the citizens of the Panhandle.
Patients began to seek out St. Anthony’s Hospital during an epidemic of typhoid in 1907. The sisters took responsibility for nursing the patients, and the general public began to realize the devotion of the sisters. St. Anthony’s Hospital went on to establish the area’s first nursing school, cardiac unit, and hospice facility.
Between 1950 and 1960, the population of Amarillo increased by 84%, which created a need for more hospital beds and physicians. The Amarillo Area Foundation began planning for a new hospital with support from the Baptist General Convention of Texas to bring about this much needed facility. On February 28, 1968, the 68 beds of High Plains Baptist Hospital were opened to the public. Its accomplishments include establishing the area’s first day surgery center and pioneering in rehabilitation services and occupational therapy.
In February 1996, High Plains Baptist Hospital and St. Anthony’s Hospital announced the final step that consolidated the two former competitors into a new healthcare system. Today, Baptist St. Anthony’s Health System (BSA) combines the services, employees, and physicians of both former hospitals into a major employer that offers full service health care, employs more than 2,700 people and has a medical staff of more than 450 physicians.
BSA, a co-ministry of Baptist Community Services of Amarillo, Texas and CHRISTUS Health of Irving, Texas, fosters an environment that allows employees to provide superior patient care in alignment with our mission—to provide quality healthcare in Christian love, service and dignity.
Start your church and give it a go. I'd love to follow the story.Quote:
Let me ask you this.. Let's say I started the Church of Blessed Marijuana. Would I be protected? Why not? Under the First Amendment, I absolutely believe that I SHOULD be protected. But, if I opened a medical cannabis dispensary, I'd need a city license, and I'd need to pay sales tax... No??
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
I don't ignore history.. I just don't believe that history should dictate the present. We had a history of slavery, and changed it. We had a history of not letting gays serve in the military. We changed it. We had a history of letting old people starve on the street, and we changed that too.
I have NO problem with treating EVERYTHING that isn't a church, exactly like it ISN'T a church. I don't mind if it goes AGAINST what we've always done.
excon
What you have a problem with is understanding the church is not a building.
Church is a non-profit faith-based organization, your hospital is not.
Um, yes it is. By every legal definition it most definitely is.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
The Rastafarians have won court cases in Guam ,but have not in the states yet. A panel of the 9th circus ruled that protections granted by the 1993 RFRA Act permits the personal use and possession of cannabis ; but not the sale or importation, for religious purposes. The court specifically found that the federal territory's controlled substance statute substantially burdened the free exercise clause .
I think that eventually the Supremes will have to rule on it . Some Native religions have gotten exceptions for peyote ;an otherwise controlled substance .Native Americans are allowed to answer "no" on the armed forces application question, "Have you ever used illegal drugs?", with respect to peyote.
It's a non-profit? Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Um, yes, We have a lot of non-profit hospitals in this country but I've already said that several times.
It believes in women using contraception so I guess it's a respectable hospital (and this is without anyone telling them to do so):Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Birth control options for women
Highlights
Birth Control Options
Birth control options for women include:
Hormonal contraceptives, such as birth control pills, skin patch, vaginal ring
Intrauterine devices (IUDs)
Barrier devices, such as condoms, diaphragm, and the cervical cap
Fertility awareness methods
Sterilization
You do realize that does not necessarily reflect the views of the Hospital, it's provided by ADAM.
Hello again, Steve:
The hospitals won't shut down.. The church will have to get used to their hospitals BEING hospitals INSTEAD of church's, which IS reality, after all. If they can't, then they'll be sold.
excon
I can't wait until this regime mandates that Muslim providers must perform vasectomies.
Nice try but still utterly, totally, completely, unequivocally irrelevant to the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Nah just hand them over to Pope Obama (he became Pope in a recess appointment ) .Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
How so?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Wait until the Republicans try to kill all liberals, then people will understand their crazy regime!Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hi Ex,
In the end it will probably be up to the black robed oligarchs of the supreme court to make the call.
Tut
Well, that was an unhinged remark.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
If insurance pays for viagra, then why not pay for the pill? Oh that's right, the catholic church don't think woman are as entitled as men.
Indeed it will... This dictate comes close to the antics the national statists pulled on the Catholic Church in the 1930s in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by TUT317
Hello:
Let me say again, church's are given their exemption from taxes BECAUSE they're churches.. If they want to BE something else, that's cool, they certainly may be, but they're no longer churches.
excon
Get rid of the tax exemption. That shouldn't be a quid pro quo for the state to dictate terms that are morally offensive and if it is then shame on the state . Just the fact that the church is providing these non-profit services should be enough to justify the tax breaks . But if the state is going to use the tax break as a yoke around the churches neck then I just as soon it was ended.
Tom you know as well as I do that it suits government to have churches provide services to the community, it means they don't have to do it
yes of course. This stuff going on is getting earily similar to the Reichskonkordat the church was forced to sign .
"We should trap the priests by their notorious greed and self indulgence. We shall thus be able to settle everything with them in perfect peace and harmony. I shall give them a few years reprieve. Why should we quarrel? They will swallow anything in order to keep their material advantages. Matters will never come to a head. They will recognise a firm will, and we need only show them once or twice who is the master. They will know which way the wind blows"
[Adolf Hitler quoted in 'The Catholic Church and Nazi Germany' by Guenter Lewy ]
To do the services under the terms the state imposes ,if it goes against the church's values ,is a deal with the devil.
The Church has been dealing with the devil for two thousand years, this is why you don't hear them mention him often
Like I said, once you get the church out of the 'business' of helping people, you're not going to like it much. I can hear it now, "if only we hadn't forced the church to stop feeding people, clothing people, providing health care, helping out in disasters, ministering to prisoners, taking care of orphans and abused women..."
Be careful what you ask for. I'm just sayin'...
They have been dealing with this issue for so long that an exemption is inevitable. Case closed. Its all over except the shouting, and 98% of catholic women will continue to get their contraceptions, as they have all along. The poor catholics can still go to planned parent hood, like they have been doing. To bad the repubs are on the wrong side of women's health issues. Well the ones who are running for president anyway. I just can't see repubs females voting for some one that takes away the pill, or makes it hard to get.
Obviously nobody listens to the celibate old guy who protect pedophiles.
Who the hell is trying to take away the pill? Come on Tal, get real.
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