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-   -   Who owns the downgrade? (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=592391)

  • Aug 16, 2011, 07:07 AM
    excon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Rep. Paul Ryan's budget proposal, which would have brought health-care entitlement spending down to sustainable levels while making key reforms to improve the performance of those programs,

    Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and every other Democrat own the downgrade. Unfortunately, they will continue to lie and place the blame on the Tea Party

    Hello again, Steve:

    You forget. I was in Vietnam. I already HEARD the BS that we had to DESTROY the village in order to save it...

    I KNOW what a voucher is. It means if your bills are MORE than the voucher, YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN. That ain't Medicare. It ain't CLOSE. Medicare would be DESTROYED under the Ryan plan. But, in the TWISTED logic of the right wing, they SAVE it... Would you pass that joint this way??

    Beyond that, I suppose I'm lying in my OP when I blame the Tea Party. My argument means NOTHING. I'm just LYING. Uhhh, no I'm not, and my argument MUST be pretty convincing, because all you and smoothy can do is call me a liar.

    excon
  • Aug 16, 2011, 07:23 AM
    smoothy

    Typical Democrat argument... Bush owns everything... including Obama's own actions... but Obama owns nothing. Not even responsibility for knocking up his wife.

    THere is really a shadow government operating out of Crawford TX, and those mean old republicans just won't let Obama do what he wants without question. Because we all really know Obama is the light, and he has all the answers...

    That's why the Economy is booming so robustly at the moment... after all Obama inherited a 5.7% unemployment rate and turned it into a 9.3% unemployment rate and Quadrupled the national debt.

    After all, why should reckless spending be a reason for a downgraded credit rating... its not like they do that to private individuals that overtly live beyond their means... but OH! They do that, don't they.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 07:27 AM
    excon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    After all, why should reckless spending be a reason for a downgraded credit rating...

    Hello again, smoothy:

    Yeah, I heard Michelle Bachmann saying she was right to vote against raising the debt ceiling.. She's deluded too.

    Bwa, ha ha ha.

    excon
  • Aug 16, 2011, 07:28 AM
    speechlesstx

    I let someone else answer the OP so apparently it is you calling the National Review editors the liars. Feel free to refute the facts they presented.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 08:17 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    reckless spending

    Definitely! Seven trillion dollars for two wars (one totally unnecessary), a faulty and unwanted Medicare Part D, and a dramatic government intervention to bail out damaged financial institutions and a weakening economy. Plus the debt ceiling raised seven times in eight years! Totally irresponsible!
  • Aug 16, 2011, 08:19 AM
    tomder55

    Quote:

    unwanted Medicare Part D,
    Thank you Teddy Kennedy !

    Quote:

    a dramatic government intervention to bail out damaged financial institutions
    Another huge mistake. You forgot stimulus .
  • Aug 16, 2011, 09:33 AM
    smoothy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, smoothy:

    Yeah, I heard Michelle Bachmann saying she was right to vote against raising the debt ceiling.. She's deluded too.

    Bwa, ha ha ha.

    excon

    Deluded... the people that think you can recklessly spend your way out of a financial crisis that was brought on by reckless spending in the first place are who are truly deluded.

    If anyone else does that... your credit score goes in the tank. And see what happens then. Obama isn't a real deity as much as some people might believe... just because he says make it so... doesn't make it so.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 10:09 AM
    talaniman

    Funny how S&P missed the recession, and even funnier, how everybody and his mama started buying treasury bonds after the downgrade, and Fitch, the other rating service just affirmed the AAA rating of the US. Hmmmm, maybe you wingers have your facts confused, especially when you listen to a financial institution, talk about economic policy, and low information partisan, opinion, that doesn't crunch the numbers.

    That's why the downgrade is owned by the TEA party. They are the one who tied the raising of the debt ceiling, to the debt. That's like trying to tell the mortgage company, unless they lower their rates, you won't pay.

    Try it, let me know how that works out for you.

    Separate the apples from the oranges, and you will know how much fruit you have.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 10:17 AM
    smoothy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Funny how S&P missed the recession, and even funnier, how everybody and his mama started buying treasury bonds after the downgrade, and Fitch, the other rating service just affirmed the AAA rating of the US. Hmmmm, maybe you wingers have your facts confused, especially when you listen to a financial institution, talk about economic policy, and low information partisan, opinion, that doesn't crunch the numbers.

    Thats why the downgrade is owned by the TEA party. They are the one who tied the raising of the debt ceiling, to the debt. Thats like trying to tell the mortgage company, unless they lower their rates, you won't pay.

    Try it, let me know how that works out for ya.

    Separate the apples from the oranges, and you will know how much fruit you have.

    Gee Only a Democrat would blame a group that has NOTHING to do with the current situation that they themselves cause and are responsible for.

    The Tea Party didn't waste that money... Democrats did. The Tea Party didn't block the only legislation that would have worked towards correcting the current situation... Democrats did.

    The Tea Party didn't control both the house and the Senate the last 4.5 years, and they didn't have the White house the last 2.5 years... Democrats did.

    Democrats OWN this mess... THEY created it... denying it only indicates a psychological break with reality. Which would require treatment and/or medication.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 10:33 AM
    talaniman

    They made it worse for everybody, and that's their plan, that's the republican plan, block, destroy, and obstruct. Hey they said so, I didn't make that up.

    And to think the far right has the only plan, is crazy. There are many, its just the Ryan plan is the ONLY one YOU want. The far right will never listen to anyone but another far right winger, so what's the point of talking to you?
  • Aug 16, 2011, 10:46 AM
    smoothy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    They made it worse for everybody, and thats their plan, thats the republican plan, block, destroy, and obstruct. hey they said so, I didn't make that up.

    And to think the far right has the only plan, is crazy. There are many, its just the Ryan plan is the ONLY one YOU want. The far right will never listen to anyone but another far right winger, so whats the point of talking to you?

    Really... the Concept of limiting your spending to what you bring in is crazy?

    SO... are you crazy for not maxing out your credit cards... and taking loans you can't pay back? Or are you smart for living within your means... which is EXACTLY what the Tea Party demands the government do.

    Obstruct... boy.. you have a set of balls to even make that stupid claim...

    Obama isn't God... and you want to talk obstruction... Look at your lesser god Harry Reid... who refused to even allow a vote on legislation passed by a majority of the House... THAT is obstruction. The Democrats are obstructing... the Republicans are doing exactly what they have the right to do.

    You do understand the concept of co-equal branches of government... you do understand the Office of President isn't a God... a King... or an Emperor.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 10:57 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    taking loans you can't pay back?

    Bush did it.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 11:01 AM
    smoothy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Bush did it.

    Obama borrowed 4 times more in his first year in office than Bush had as a national deficit after 8 years.. In fact Obama has borrowed not only more than Bush did... he borrowed more than EVERY president since George Washington including Bush did... COMBINED.

    But then the man has never had a real job in his life... the concept of living within a budget is beyond his ability to comprehend. So much for being the "smartest President we ever had" People with Downs Syndrome (at least those trained to be self sufficient) can do it... yet Obama can't.

    But then... if he was a real man... he'd take ownership of his mistakes and shortcomings and stop the finger pointing. Its clear he's not enough of an adult or a man to do that.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 11:02 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    Obama borrowed 4 times more in his first year in office than Bush did in 8 years. In fact Obama has borrows not only more than Bush did...he boroowed more than EVERY president since George Washington including Bush did....COMBINED.

    SOMEone has to pay Bush's huge debts.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 11:03 AM
    talaniman

    People do have to live within there means, and by all accounts we do, despite what the low information voters (Tea Party) says. But during a recession, somebody has to fill the void, during an emergency man made or natural, somebody has to fill the void. We have a void to be filled, who fills it? And by your logic about affording stuff, why are their still loop holes you wingers refuse to close? How come a billionaire can deduct all kinds of crap, and NOT create one job except in a third world country, and bring it back for you to buy?

    How can states like TEXAS create so many jobs without raising the per capita income for the state, while having the poorest population, and the worse schools?

    Who does your right wing plan work for? Not government, Not the people the government is supposed to serve, not the states and the people in it. WHO?

    But blame everyone but yourself, because in truth, we all own some of the mess. Not just Nancy, and Harry, Or Barrack. But it gets you guys excited when those people are mentioned right? Someone to throw rocks at.

    If aliens did invade the EARTH, whose side would you be on then?? Don't answer, you probably would blame that on Obama too!

    You can't even debate a winger, because he has his own facts, and EVERYBODY else is wrong.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 11:06 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    SOMEone has to pay Bush's huge debts.

    Ok, so how much are Obama's huge debts?
  • Aug 16, 2011, 11:07 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    Obama borrowed 4 times more in his first year in office than Bush had as a national deficit after 8 years..

    Nope, he unhid debt figures that Bush hid: Obama Bans Gimmicks, and Deficit Will Rise - NYTimes.com

    Also to refute your following point:
    Has Obama Spent More Than Bush? Lets look at real numbers. | Cafetax
  • Aug 16, 2011, 11:08 AM
    smoothy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    SOMEone has to pay Bush's huge debts.

    Bushes debt was a drop in the Bucket comapred to Obamas...


    Obama not only DIDN'T make an any atempt to pay ANY of those... but he made them 4 times worse than the EVER were under Bush.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 11:09 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    People with Downs Syndrome (at least those trained to be self sufficient) can do it....yet Obama can't.

    There is nobody on this website that sinks lower than you. Congratulations.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 11:09 AM
    smoothy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post

    Really... those are BS and not at all factual... why don['t you just post the White house propaganda. Oh... those ARE the Whitehouse Propaganda. Not credible unbiased sources.

    The New York times... you can't BE more biased than they are.


    I suppose Obamas 9.3% unemployment is far better than the 5.7% unemployment Bush left office with.

    Explain that to the Millions of people that had jobs under Bush that haven't under Obama... or is that their imagination too?
  • Aug 16, 2011, 11:10 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    Really...those are BS and not at all factual...why don['t you just post the White house propaganda.

    Hehe, coming from a guy who never posts facts but speaks solely in hyperbole. :p
  • Aug 16, 2011, 11:14 AM
    smoothy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    Hehe, coming from a guy who never posts facts but speaks solely in hyperbole. :p

    Really... you haven't quoted facts... you quoted propaganda from highly biased sources.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 11:17 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    Really...you haven't quoted facts.....you quoted propaganda from highly biased sources.

    They quote their sources, fell free to check them. Let's see your facts from an unbiased source then.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 11:37 AM
    smoothy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    They quote their sources, fell free to check them. Let's see your facts from an unbiased source then.

    NOTHING the New York Times prints is accurate or unbiased. The National Enquirer has a better reputation these days.

    They systematically avoided everything negative about Obama since he started his campaign... and in fact push propaganda at the expense of real stories.

    No wonder their circulation numbers are crap and falling. Who wants to pay to read propaganda... people want to see the news.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 12:00 PM
    NeedKarma
    So you can't furnish any facts whatsoever for your outlandish claims? This doesn't surprise me. It's all hyperbole no facts.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 12:27 PM
    talaniman

    I will give you a fact. Since the down grade, the yield on treasury bonds has gone in the negative. We can create a million jobs tomorrow, borrowing for infrasturucture projects that needs to be done. Got a bridge in your state that needs replacing? Or SCHOOL.

    Bet a million jobs would shrink the deficit the right is so afraid of. Without selling Grandma a pill cutter.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 12:54 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    Nope, he unhid debt figures that Bush hid: Obama Bans Gimmicks, and Deficit Will Rise - NYTimes.com

    Refusing to pass a budget is one hell of a gimmick. It's also unconstitutional on the House side and unlawful on the Senate side to fail to propose a budget.

    Quote:
    So Obama's spending through 2009 as analyzed by this guy, whoever he or she is, is proof positive that Obama hasn't drastically worsened our debt problems?
  • Aug 16, 2011, 12:58 PM
    smoothy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    So you can't furnish any facts whatsoever for your outlandish claims? This doesn't surprise me. It's all hyperbole no facts.

    Really... The New York Times the biggest political partisans in the business... those are not facts... those are bold faced lies.

    But then... some people believe in Alien abductions too... doesn't make it so either any more than just because the Times posts something doesn't make it fact either.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 12:59 PM
    smoothy

    The Democrats answer to not having any plan at all is call people names...

    What a bunch of children... and Mental Midgets we have in the white house.


    Sources: Joe Biden likened tea partiers to terrorists - Jonathan Allen and John Bresnahan - POLITICO.com
  • Aug 16, 2011, 01:09 PM
    talaniman

    The jobless problem worsened the debt problem, fix that you go along way toward fixing the debt.

    He submitted a budget, but it was voted down remember. The result of the debt ceiling crisis IS the new budget. Minus a few trillion, and a few more to follow. Now the nature of cuts is all that is left to be realized.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 01:36 PM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Refusing to pass a budget is one hell of a gimmick. It's also unconstitutional on the House side and unlawful on the Senate side to fail to propose a budget.

    Wow, the republicans must be scared and a bunch of >Removed< if they can't even act on that. Is that who you want governing the country??
  • Aug 16, 2011, 03:53 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    Wow, the republicans must be scared and a bunch of >Removed< if they can't even act on that. Is that who you want governing the country???

    You do realize Republicans only control the House? You think they can get enough Democrats in the House and the Democratic-controlled Senate to punish Democrats? Good logic there, NK.
  • Aug 16, 2011, 03:55 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    You do realize Republicans only control the House? You think they can get enough Democrats in the House and the Democratic-controlled Senate to punish Democrats?

    If they did it right they could.
  • Aug 17, 2011, 02:34 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    You do realize Republicans only control the House? You think they can get enough Democrats in the House and the Democratic-controlled Senate to punish Democrats? Good logic there, NK.

    But they haven't even brought it up. Of course one of the options is that you're wrong about the unlawfulness and unconstitutional part as well.
  • Aug 17, 2011, 06:38 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    If they did it right they could.

    Feel free to explain.
  • Aug 17, 2011, 07:18 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    But they haven't even brought it up.

    Wrong.

    Quote:

    Republicans step up calls for Democrats to offer budget proposal
    12:16 AM 05/19/2011


    As the bipartisan “Gang of 6″ talks appear to have stalled indefinitely, Senate Republicans are stepping up the pressure on the Democratic majority to produce a budget plan.

    Thursday marks the 750th day since the Senate last passed a budget. After weeks of expecting a proposal to be put forward only to have nothing materialize, one Republican staffer speculated to The Daily Caller that Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad may skip the committee markup process altogether.

    Conrad himself has said he has no immediate plans to bring a budget proposal to the committee. And according to the staffer, while Democrats have been working around the clock on a proposal, there was no activity over the weekend.

    “It doesn’t look good for a committee process,” the staffer said.

    “The Democrats campaigned for control of this chamber,” said Budget Committee Ranking Member Jeff Sessions of Alabama. “They asked for the job. Let’s see their budget.”

    Texas Republican Sen. Jon Cornyn took to Twitter to ask, “What? Still no budget?”

    Republican Sen. John Thune of South Dakota also tweeted Wednesday “749 days have passed since @senatedems passed a budget. With the #national debt over $14 trillion, what’s the rush?”

    Ohio Republican Sen. Rob Portman also joined in on Twitter, saying “We’re in a fiscal crisis, yet the #Democrat led Senate has not passed a #budget in 748 days.”


    But while calling on the Democrats to produce a budget is nothing new, Republicans took it a step further Wednesday by accusing the majority of wasting time in what has been an uncharacteristically slow session.

    That was clear when the Senate Republican Conference, chaired by Tennessee Sen. Lamar Alexander, sent out a press release with a bold headline reading “Democrats’ spending marches on while their budget is MIA…but delay hasn’t been because the Democrats haven’t had the time.”

    The release went on to highlight recent reports about the Senate’s lack of productivity of late. As of last week, the Senate has only held 70 roll call votes – the lowest level at this point of the year the chamber has seen since 1997.

    Five whole weeks were also devoted to getting a small business bill to pass the Senate. It ended up failing anyway on a disagreement over process.

    “The fact that President Obama and the Democrats who control the Senate have not put forward a responsible budget is not only disappointing — it’s alarming,” said Republican Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin.

    “We are ready for a robust debate on the future of our country, but, as the majority, Senate Democrats must show some leadership first,” Utah Republican Sen. Mike Lee said.

    Conrad’s office at the Budget Committee did not respond to TheDC requests for comment.
    Quote:

    Of course one of the options is that you're wrong about the unlawfulness and unconstitutional part as well.
    I may have overstepped on the unconstitutional part although the House is the House of revenue according to Section 7. I'm not too big to admit when I'm mistaken. But, they are required by law:

    THE ANNUAL BUDGET PROCESS


    Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974
  • Aug 17, 2011, 07:30 AM
    excon

    Hello again, Steve:

    I don't disagree about the legal requirement for a budget... But, complaining about it, as though it's a reason for the problems we have, is simple partisanship and a deflection from the real problems...

    The Democrats do it too. It's THEIR intention to use ANY advantage they can to SLAM the other guy and gain POWER for themselves.. I think I mentioned that in another post...

    The two sides are still talking PAST each other. I know, I know. You're going to say YOUR side is sincere, but the other guys aren't... Nahh. They ALL suck.

    Vote for Ron Paul.

    excon
  • Aug 17, 2011, 08:36 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Feel free to explain.

    Congress would be "doing it right" if they put politics aside and their own greed too and thought honestly about the American public needs and how Congress can address those needs.
  • Aug 18, 2011, 06:42 AM
    smoothy
    2 Attachment(s)
    These speak volumes...
  • Aug 18, 2011, 03:24 PM
    talaniman
    Amusing, but hardly speaking volumes.

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