That's true... but Kerry was talking about Tea Party . You know it and I know it.
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That's true... but Kerry was talking about Tea Party . You know it and I know it.
That's a lot of assumptions - something Steve frowns on. Kerry's opinion isn't even radical. Not sure what the fuss is about.
Do your research then .It is not an assumption. It was the topic of the discussion that the video was clipped from .
We go by what was posted and there is no mention of the tea party which is the whole basis of the thread.
Yes and? So what the hell is the problem then? He has the right rail against the Tea Party, I have the right to rail against him.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
I have also defended this site numerous times as having the right to set rules and moderate content. But what you don't - or shouldn't - have the right to do is apply those rules unfairly and unequally. I don't care that you don't review every post, we as members see what behavior has been consistently allowed and act accordingly. Your acts today were arbitrary and inconsistent with what we see on a daily basis
As I just showed with the titles I listed. I'm not interested in your excuses, I'm waiting for the rules to be applied equally. I don't think that's asking too much.
Of course he was talking about the Tea party, and the extreme right wing, and right wing TV, and radio. So what, he is on the other side of the coin, a democratic liberal. That's his job to jump on the other side.
The right takes no prisoners in there assault on anything they see as against what they believe.
True conservatives have always been able to negotiate and compromise, but the extreme right holds its own party hostage, and that's what Kerry was railing about.
What was included in the post was a link to the source. While you and Scott assume and posture and imply, I furnish evidence and sources. RCP is NOT a conservative source, they supplied the headline and the video is clear about who Kerry is referring to.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
RCP about us
Tal you won't hear us calling for censorship. I'll take anyone to task (take no prisoners etc).. but would never do things or suggest things that would suppress a free and open exchange .
Tom, I neither consider you a TPer, nor a right wing extremist. We don't agree on some things but we love to debate our points. If you are my age, you remember when reaching across the aisle was a practice, not an indictment. That's what makes this country great, that's what made it the greatest. I understand fear, and what it makes us do, and it brings out the worst, but where is our courage? What happened to it? That was our only advantage over our enemies, and now that seems to be gone. Or lack of outside enemies, maybe we have become our own worst enemy.
Hope not.
What happened to reaching across the aisle? Ask all those progressives that spent years fear mongering about Bush and plans for a theocracy. Ask Pelosi, she was the one that instituted the 'party of no' philosophy after the 2006 election. Ask Obama, who after trying to offer ideas told Eric Cantor 'I won'. Ask all the Dems that locked Republicans out of the health care talks and then rammed the legislation through against clear public opposition.
The truth is politics is ugly, but at the end of the day most of us can still get together and battle it out in a friendly fantasy league. Ok, so me kicking y'all's butt isn't much of a battle, but it's still friendly.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts!!
That wasn't the issue with BUSH. Political back and forth is always going to be present, so of course this compassionate conservative was going to have a problem with the left, and if you recall both parties went along with his tax cuts, wars, housing bubble, deregulations, unfunded educational programs, and an expensive drug program for seniors, and in return, the same guy who screwed up the Rangers, failed at over seven businesses, and became president through controversy TWICE, and took a projected surplus to a very real deficit, made worse by accounting tricks designed to hide the true costs, and through all of this, I can't remember anything about his turning things into a theocracy. Now if you mean privatizing social security, and giving tax breaks to charities, and churches to help the poor in place of government, yeah I was mad too, just because it should have been done in addition to government, and not yet another loophole to the rich, and called philanthropy. Is that a theocracy, know, that's an oligarchy.Quote:
QUOTE by speechlesstx;
What happened to reaching across the aisle? Ask all those progressives that spent years fear mongering about Bush and plans for a theocracy.
Somebody had to reign in Georges wars, spending, the greatest wealth distribution the world has ever seen. The people spoke, in 2006, 2008, and 2010, and they will speak again in 2012, and we have to see what they say. That's how it works, and Pelosi must have done something the electorate liked, because the success of '06, was followed by the success of '08.Quote:
Ask Pelosi, she was the one that instituted the 'party of no' philosophy after the 2006 election.
2010, only got the house, some governors and some state legislators, many are under fire now already, for crazy over reaching policy that brought people to the streets, from both parties. WISCONSIN, is the perfect example of reaching across the aisle we have seen in years.
Well he did win, so what makes you think Mr. Cantor will dictate the rules to everyone just because some in the House are TPers? The rookies will learn though, rest assured (progressive rhetoric!! ).Quote:
Ask Obama, who after trying to offer ideas told Eric Cantor 'I won'.
You mean debating for months and putting the ideas of Republicans into bills that they filibustered (obstructed), voted against, all for an agenda to defeat the president, at the expense of the country? Hey fact is that's how George got his tax cuts, through the process of reconciliation. You ram we ram, such is the way to get things done LEGALLY, so I guess you guys don't like it when its your turn to get it rammed down your throat, as you call it. (right wing rhetoric?? ).Quote:
Ask all the Dem's that locked Republicans out of the health care talks and then rammed the legislation through against clear public opposition.
We agree completely, and I am honestly enjoying Fantasy Baseball, and look forward to it every day. Almost as much as debating with you righties. Since no ones mind gets changed, we can never know who's butt gets kicked, but for all the INTENSITY, its still friendly. Nothing personal. From me at least.Quote:
The truth is politics is ugly, but at the end of the day most of us can still get together and battle it out in a friendly fantasy league. Ok, so me kicking y'all's butt isn't much of a battle, but it's still friendly.
Hello tal:Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Oh, I don't know. I used to be a screaming right winger until I started reading your posts.;)
excon
Do you really think that it is in any way responsible to pass a bill by stating that you have to pass it to find out what is in it? The tax cuts you had spoken of weren't under the table as the health care bill. It was irresponsible legislation and for that we all will suffer.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
That's funny, I have been following the changes, amendments, and the whole this through committee since 2009, online, and on cspan. I knew what was in the bill, its been on white house .gov since march, '09, so not knowing what's in it by a member of congress is really hard to believe. Unlike the tax cuts, EVERYBODY, followed this one, and its still online, but what's bad about it? You do know that what he ran on and won on it. Plus it enjoyed public support.
http://www.ibx.com/pdfs/about_ibc/he...m/timeline.pdf
Is it irresponsible to rein in rising costs to one of the biggest drivers of our budget? The biggest knock on it was it doesn't go far enough, nor included single payer. And how could you pass up the fact private insurers were raising rates, and shedding customers for any reason.
Like I asked, how is it turning out to be bad legislation?? Give me facts, not talking points. The greatest growth industry during the current economic downturn, is in health care if you haven't noticed, fueled by the Obamacare bill, and the money for Pell grants and loans, as well as additional funding for hospitals doctors, clinics, AND insurance companies, and drug companies. AND tax credits for having private health insurance, AND no penalties for not having insurance, other than losing a deduction that's roughly a third of what you paid.
I said that and a moderator that can't seem to grasp the fact that my starting a thread means I'm seeking opinions from others, basically called me a liar.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Speaking of having your own facts, trying to add input is not dictating, and shutting Republicans out is not reaching across the aisle.Quote:
Well he did win, so what makes you think Mr. Cantor will dictate the rules...
Need at least one more for fantasy football. Anyone? Your chance to virtually thrash a conservative...Quote:
We agree completely, and I am honestly enjoying Fantasy Baseball, and look forward to it every day. Almost as much as debating with you righties. Since no ones mind gets changed, we can never know who's butt gets kicked, but for all the INTENSITY, its still friendly. Nothing personal. From me at least.
I said that and a moderator that can't seem to grasp the fact that my starting a thread means I'm seeking opinions from others, basically called me a liar.
As I read it, your question was modified, to get opinions, and not backlash, and he did come back to explain himself. If I didn't know you so well I would have thought you were picking an argument, not looking for opinions, but get beyond that, and don't take it personally. If you only knew how many reddies I get (can't get any on this forum though, LOL! ), and PM's cussing me out as being harsh and insensitive, edited for "letting people have it", and various other things it would blow your mind. Don't take it personally. I never do. Comes with being on a public forum.
Speaking of having your own facts, trying to add input is not dictating, and shutting Republicans out is not reaching across the aisle.
Now back to issues, Republicans are never shut out, they draw a line, and leave. Its been there MO since this president came into office. They have been in every negotiation and debate, and always back away and run out in the middle of them, obstruction, and they have stated their goal is to make Obama look bad, and have succeeded with much help.
Republican Obstructionism Measured & Confirmed | Mirror On America
Today in Childish Republican Obstructionism - The Daily Beast
This is an old well used strategy by repubs,
NEWS ONLY AVAILABLE ON THE INTERNET: REPUBLICAN OBSTRUCTIONISM A PLANNED AND SUCCESSFUL STRATEGY
Despite the growing specter of political violence, the Republicans appear set in their determination to foment as much disruption as possible between now and the November elections, and thus reap expected gains, with hopes that they can win back the House and Senate and then further neutralize Obama.
Quote:
Inside-Outside
While some Washington pundits see the Republicans as captives of the extremism on the Right – unable to dismount a dangerous tiger – the counter-analysis would be that the GOP and the Tea Party/militia crowd are just two parts of the same political movement, one inside the system and the other outside, but both working toward the same goal, a restoration of Republican/Right control of government.
In their view, only then would political comity and governmental normalcy be restored, because the Democrats always seem eager to get along and do what’s necessary to make government work.
Need at least one more for fantasy football. Anyone? Your chance to virtually thrash a conservative...Quote:
The Pattern Continues
So, the Republicans have never been made to pay a political price for their scheming to undercut sitting Democratic presidents -- and to grease the GOP’s route back to power. Whenever a Democrat is in the White House, the Republicans believe they are free do whatever they want to block him from solving national problems, making him look weak and ineffectual.
That was true of Johnson, Carter, Clinton and now Obama
Count me in, PM me the details and show me where to sign.
8 weeks left in FBB anything can happen... it isn't over until it's over.
We could see a 1964 Phiilies ;a 2007 Mets ,a 1978 Red Sox ,a 1969 Cubbies ,a (dare I say it ) 2004 NY Yankees here . Keep hope alive!! Speech lost 2 pts yesterday . The collapse is imminent!
8 weeks?? We better get busier, heck I been trying to break 20 points longer than that!!
It ain't over yet!!
Ok, Lets start with here.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
‪Pelosi: we have to pass the health care bill so that you can find out what is in it‬‏ - YouTube
Pelosi: We need to pass ObamaCare so that the public can find out what's in the bill Hot Air
A new Congressional Budget Office report shows premiums will increase
for some Americans with individual coverage. However, most people
who get insurance through their employer won’t see a big difference in
premiums.
This was a lie from the beginning. Health care costs have almost tripled for many employers and their workforce since its passing.
October 14 Independent analysis commissioned by the Blue Cross Blue Shield
Association through Oliver Wyman Inc., an international management
consulting firm, also shows that the current health bill in Congress will
not reduce costs. Its research indicates the legislation will actually lead to
50% higher premiums.
October 12 Americas Health Insurance Plans (AHIP) announces a new study it has
commissioned through PriceWaterhouseCoopers that shows how current
legislation will actually raise health care costs, not reduce them.
And there are penalties for not buying into the system. The IRS will be making sure of that. They also wish to tax people for "premium plans". That's like saying rather then drive what we can afford we all have to drive the same car.
There is a start for you.
There's more to it than meets the eye, tal. I can take the backlash from anyone, but what I don't tolerate is for the rules to be applied unequally. When that happens and the facts are on my side, that's when I pick a fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
I'll get back to you tomorrow. I'll get it set up but we'll still at least need one more team to have head to head games so ask your buddies here.Quote:
Need at least one more for fantasy football. Anyone? Your chance to virtually thrash a conservative...
Count me in, PM me the details and show me where to sign.
Premiums were rising dramatically anyway,Quote:
A new Congressional Budget Office report shows premiums will increase
For some Americans with individual coverage. However, most people
Who get insurance through their employer won’t see a big difference in
Premiums.
Health care in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
An study by the insurance industry? Really? No I mean REALLY?Quote:
October 14 Independent analysis commissioned by the Blue Cross Blue Shield
Association through Oliver Wyman Inc. an international management
Consulting firm, also shows that the current health bill in Congress will
Not reduce costs. Its research indicates the legislation will actually lead to
50% higher premiums.
October 12 Americas Health Insurance Plans (AHIP) announces a new study it has
Commissioned through PriceWaterhouseCoopers that shows how current
Legislation will actually raise health care costs, not reduce them.
Study the CBO scoring,
Congressional Budget Office - H.R. 4872, Reconciliation Act of 2010
None of that is in the bill. If you don't want in get a waiver, or forget the tax deduction.Quote:
And there are penalties for not buying into the system. The IRS will be making sure of that. They also wish to tax people for "premium plans". That's like saying rather then drive what we can afford we all have to drive the same car.
I can only guess that this is the type of coverage more to Kerry's liking:
http://media.hotair.com/wp/wp-conten...n-newsweek.jpg
Exactly when has Bachmann "raged" abut anything? Did Newsweek crown anyone king or queen of rage for calling Republicans terrorists or the Hezbollah faction of the GOP? Or as Ed Morrisey put it, "When Barack Obama told an audience in June 2008 that “if they bring a knife to a fight, we bring a gun,” did Newsweek crown him the King of Rage"?
Good thing Newsweek is relegated to subscribers consisting solely of Democratic Underground members.
10 Of The Craziest Things Michele Bachmann Has Ever Said | ThinkProgress
Quote:
(1) BACHMANN WARNED ‘THE LION KING’ WAS GAY PROPAGANDA: At the November 2004 EdWatch National Education Conference, Bachmann said the “normalization” of homosexuality would lead to “desensitization”: “Very effective way to do this with a bunch of second graders, is take a picture of ‘The Lion King’ for instance, and a teacher might say, ‘Do you know that the music for this movie was written by a gay man?’ The message is: I’m better at what I do, because I’m gay.”
(2) BACHMANN CLAIMED ABOLISHING THE MINIMUM WAGE WOULD CREATE JOBS: While testifying in front of the Minnesota Senate in 2005, Bachmann said, “Literally, if we took away the minimum wage — if conceivably it was gone — we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level.” This isn’t remotely true. Even simply reducing the minimum wage would, as Paul Krugman noted, “at best do nothing for employment; more likely it would actually be contractionary.”
(3) BACHMANN CLAIMED THAT SCIENTISTS ARE SUPPORTERS OF INTELLIGENT DESIGN: During a 2006 debate, Bachmann said, “There are hundreds and hundreds of scientists, many of them holding Nobel Prizes, who believe in intelligent design.” This was, and is, not true.
(4) BACHMANN CLAIMED TERRI SCHIAVO WAS ‘HEALTHY’: Not long after Terri Schiavo died, Bachmann said she would have voted for the Palm Sunday Compromise because Schiavo “was healthy. She had brain damage — there was brain damage, there was no question. But from a health point of view, she was not terminally ill.” An autopsy found that Schiavo had suffered irreversible brain damage and her brain, said the medical examiner, was “profoundly atrophied.”
(5) BACHMANN LIKENED VISITING IRAQ TO VISITING MALL OF AMERICA: In 2007, Bachmann returned from a junket to Iraq and told her colleagues, “[T]here’s a commonality with the Mall of America, in that it’s on that proportion. There’s marble everywhere. The other thing I remarked about was there is water everywhere.” As ThinkProgress documented at the time, the comparison was preposterous.
(6) BACHMANN CLAIMED THAT CARBON DIOXIDE IS ‘HARMLESS’: In 2008, a Stanford scientist revealed “direct links” between increased levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and “increases in human mortality” — globally, he found that as many as “20,000 air-pollution-related deaths per year per degree Celsius may be due to this greenhouse gas.” The next year, Bachmann, who is not a scientist, said that “carbon dioxide is portrayed as harmful. But there isn’t even one study that can be produced that shows that carbon dioxide is a harmful gas.”
(7) BACHMANN CALLED FOR A CONGRESSIONAL WITCH HUNT: Pivoting off the news of Barack Obama’s alleged relationship to former Weather Underground member William Ayers, and his former pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Bachmann accused the candidate of having “anti-American views.” She then suggested that Congressional liberals — including Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid — ought to be subject to “an exposé” by the media because of their views. “I think people would love to see like that,” she told a stunned Chris Matthews.
(8) BACHMANN SUGGESTED GAY SINGER SHOULD REPENT AFTER GETTING CANCER: Bachmann saw Melissa Etheridge’s cancer as a teachable moment: “Unfortunately she is now suffering from breast cancer, so keep her in your prayers,” she said in November 2004. “This may be an opportunity for her now to be open to some spiritual things, now that she is suffering with that physical disease. She is a lesbian.”
(9) BACHMANN BOASTED ABOUT BREAKING THE LAW: In advance of the 2010 national Census, Bachmann told The Washington Times that she would break the law by not completing the forms. “I know for my family, the only question we will be answering is how many people are in our home,” she said. “We won’t be answering any information beyond that, because the Constitution doesn’t require any information beyond that.”
(10) BACHMANN CLAIMED THAT GLENN BECK COULD SOLVE THE DEBT CRISIS: During a February trip to South Carolina, Bachmann told a South Carolina audience, “I think if we give Glenn Beck the numbers, he can solve this [the national debt].”
Hello Steve;
It's not what she said. It's how she looks.
excon
Now, now ex, republican like their woman politicians perty, it diverts from the content that they say and makes the base vote with the other head.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
I didn't see any rage there, NK. Where was the rage? I have never see her rage.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
How totally inappropriate on so many levels, but I'm sure you'll get away with it no problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Should I have used your sarcasm font?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Rage can take many forms, I think she has the more passive-aggressive form of it. But no, she doesn't froth at the mouth if that's what you are aiming at.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
In other words, she doesn't rage.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Ok. She just says nutty things which is unfortunate for a presidential candidate.
I guess you won't be subscribing to Newsweek. I'm sure there are other more right-wing magazines you can endorse.
No one is subscribing to Newsweek any more (easy to see why) and I'm more a Sports Illustrated guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
There you go - the free market cures all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
I was just quoting your sources. And there will be penalties. Again your source shows the IRS will be involved.
Heading: Payments of Penalties for Being Uninsured Under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (April 22, 2010)
Among those who are subject to the penalty, many will voluntarily report on their tax returns that they are uninsured and pay the amount owed. However, other individuals will try to avoid making payments. Therefore, the estimates presented here account for likely compliance rates, as well as the ability of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to administer and collect the penalty. In total, about 4 million people are projected to pay a penalty because they will be uninsured in 2016 (a figure that includes uninsured dependents who have the penalty paid on their behalf).
CBO and JCT estimate that total collections from those penalties will be about $4 billion per year over the 2017–2019 period. The attached table shows the distribution of payments that are projected to be made for being uninsured in 2016 (which the IRS will actually collect in 2017) by income measured as a percentage of the federal poverty level (FPL). In general, households with lower income will pay the flat dollar penalty, and households with higher income will pay a percentage of their income. In 2016, households with income that exceeds 400 percent of the FPL are estimated to constitute about one-third of people paying penalties and to account for about two-thirds of the receipts from those penalties.
Take note that at a minimum they will be trying to collect 4 billion a year in penalties.
Actually the penalties that will be levied in 2017 are in line with what most states already have, and seems to be a standard according to income as seen in Massachusetts,
TIR 09-1: Individual Mandate Penalties for Tax Year 2009 (Updated)
It's a choice, and a responsibility, much like car insurance, and seat belts. Yes and many do pay the penalty as Mass. Has a 97% compliance. But the presumption is there will be enough options that EVERYONE has access to affordable health regardless of income. As you know every state can have its own plan, as long as it complies with the guidelines set by the Federal government. No doubt they will do as as Mass. Does, so if your Governor says so, you won't have to pay that penalty.
I think your rush to label this bad legislation, fails to acknowledge facts that are already made apparent as many of these reforms in the Affordable Care Act have already gone into affect, and has been received tremendously already. I mean from what's already been started what do you object to that makes this "bad" legislation. Be specific Dad!! I mean not having seat belts is 75 bucks a pop, and since most people I know, especially with kids, see insurance as a necessity.
Obama has made it plain that he is open to ideas, and tweaks.
Sounds like a very effective way to raise taxes and call them penalties.Quote:
Originally Posted by califdadof3
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