Ask Me Help Desk - Boston Public schools aid in Islamic Indocrination

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Originally Posted by tomder55

name that speaker.....

Under your prescription any mention of God in our history and culture would be scrubbed from the curriculum regardless of it's content . You cannot properly study the Enlightement or it's influence on the founders without that basic fact)

Hello again, tom:

I don't care if it was a liberals lib. He's WRONG. We only have ONE Pledge of Allegiance... It's NOT history. It's NOT culture. It's NOT study. It's what we ALL say. But, it doesn't apply to ALL of us. Before they inserted those two offending words, however, it DID.

Contrary to your assertion, I'm HAPPY to have religion and it's influence on American culture and history, STUDIED in school. You DO grasp the distinction between STUDY and PRAYER, don't you?

excon

For reference, Wellesly is a very white, very upper-crust and uptight Boston suburb where you can't even park your car on the street over-night.

If you don't go on these stupid field trips that all your friends are going on, you get to stay with a teacher all day and do homework, or copying words out of a dictionary. What kid wants to do that? It's blackmail.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Nope. And also a Jewish synagogue and also a Mormon temple (girls excluded again) and a Hindu temple and a Buddhist monastery. I only wish all that would have been done when I was a student.

If we have to go there, then we also need to include cults too.

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

The entire point to the thread is that since schools are prohibited from touring Holy Cross, they should be equally prohibited from touring this terrorist-funded madrassa.

According to Fox News, that is exactly what this class was about. FOXNews.com - School Apologizes After Students Pray to Allah on Field Trip to Mosque

"Wong explained the field trip was part of a course titled, “Enduring Beliefs and the World Today.” It included a visit to a synagogue and a mosque – along with a gospel music concert and a meeting with representatives of the Hindu religion."

Based upon the above, I don't know if the students were actually allowed to visit a church or simply allowed to attend a gospel music concert. In any event, if the school was trying to teach children about "enduring beliefs and the world today", a field trip to at least one church was absolutely necessary to fulfill the coursework intent.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Wondergirl I am not faulting the people at the mosque for proselytizing .That's their job. I fault the school and particularily the escorts for not stopping it as inappropriate. Thankfully there was a suspicious parent with a video camera. One could just imagine the subtle and not so subtle pressure on the students to participate otherwise.

Tom, I absolutely agree. I do fault the school AND "particularly the escorts". However, I don't agree we should be thankful to this parent for the choice she made. I am left scratching my head wondering WHY she chose to videotape this incident RATHER than grab one or two other escorts and immediately stop what was occurring in front of her. It didn't take an army to intercede when the mosque representative began to proselytize and eventually manage to coerce 5 children (out of 200 on the field trip) into participating in their prayer service. I honestly don't understand how any responsible parent would be so passive when faced with something so abhorrent to our senses. Unless the intent was to create a news story. Curiously enough, another quote from the Fox News article might explain it all:

"Attorney Rob Meltzer represents the parent, who asked not to be identified. He’s launched an investigation into the incident and says he may consider filing a lawsuit or complaint against the school district."

If a lawsuit is filed it will cost the average taxpayer from that school district a great deal of money to defend something that NEVER should have been allowed to occur. In my opinion, not only was the school irresponsible for not monitoring this course/situation properly but THAT parent who made this into a nationwide news story was completely irresponsible in fulfilling her duties as a chaperone/escort. If it was one of my kids that participated in the prayer service, I would be spitting mad at her for not only failing to act in stopping my child but purposely taping him/her! I would be looking into holding that parent responsible and suing her.

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Originally Posted by Just_Another_Lemming

I honestly don't understand how any responsible parent would be so passive when faced with something so abhorrent to our senses. Unless the intent was to create a news story.

G'morning, J:

One of smoothy's references, "Public School Field Trip: Inside Video Captures Kids Bowing to Allah" is Andrew Brietbart's site.

Hmmm.. He sounds familiar... Isn't he the one who edited the tapes of Shirley Sherrod to make it appear she said ONE thing, when she, in fact, said something completely different??

I'm just saying.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAL

I am left scratching my head wondering WHY she chose to videotape this incident RATHER than grab one or two other escorts and immediately stop what was occuring in front of her.

That was my thought also. Why didn't the escorts have the cajones to step in and stop the students from participating? Were they so blindsided, or was it a set-up since the Quorah-burner was off the front page and things had gotten dull in Medialand? Apparently, someone had time and opportunity on her hands to film the prayers (and am surprised the Muslims allowed that).

I don't question her motive any more than I question anyone else's motives for using video. Everything that happens today is recorded . I also do not know it's a fact that the parent taping was a chaperone ,or if that parent raised objections.
...
Breitbart exposed a corruption involving Shirley Sherrod much deeper than the racism charges that were later disproved . There are many who believe Breitbart's actual motives was to expose Sherrod's corruption in the “Pigford v. Glickman”case ;where she scammed the government out of $ millions .

Lol ,you make it sound like selective release of tape is a Breitbart invention.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I also do not know it's a fact that the parent taping was a chaperone

That's what the original video said she was there for, to chaperone.

Thanks... I didn't watch the whole video... only the edited tape.

Still this complaint about the parent seems a little like 'kill the messenger' .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Still this complaint about the parent seems a little like 'kill the messenger' .

She snapped her camera out of her purse and perkily announced with horror that she was going to videotape the awful events that were currently taking place at the mosque *gasp*. (It wasn't quite like that, but she was "in the right time at the right place." While I was watching it, I felt like "that is a little too pat.")

Tom, WG is right. Not only the video stated she was an escort/chaperone but the links posted throughout this thread state it as well.

I haven't chaperoned any field trips. I do remember being a kid with the mixed feeling of horror and embarrassment when my Mother chaperoned one trip and caught some kids smoking. She certainly didn't keep her mouth shut!

Part of the job of the parent as chaperone is not only to monitor the children's actions but to act as a teacher's aide and keep them from doing anything that might be considered harmful or goes against policy.

Please give some thought to this: If one of the 5 children was hers don't you think she would have grabbed him/her and kept them from joining in the prayer service? Wouldn't you if the child was yours? I certainly would. And, I would expect you as another parent to quietly and kindly tell the lady who was conducting the tour that she is entitled to her beliefs but this is considered a learning experience, not a participating one, and immediately hustle those children out of there.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

(It wasn't quite like that, but she was "in the right time at the right place." While I was watching it, I felt like "that is a little too pat.")

So what if it was? Obama called on all Americans to spy for him, if you saw anything that "seems fishy" about Obamacare he wanted you to send him an email at [email protected] and the NAACP just called for people to spy on the Tea Party. Holding schools accountable is a good thing, ratting out your neighbors for exercising their rights isn't.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

So what if it was?

You're comparing apples with oranges.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

You're comparing apples with oranges.

No, I am not.

And what could there possibly be to report?

For Obama and the NAACP's spies, nothing. That's the point. Holding schools accountable is a good thing, ratting out your neighbors for exercising their rights isn't.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

ratting out your neighbors for exercising their rights

If they are exercising their rights, what's to report? I don't get it.

What exactly was the chaperone supposed to do ? Create a scene in the Mosque ? Physically prevent the students from participating ?

The bottom line here is that parents signed a permission slip to have their children observe. Knelling in prayer is not observing. I am not really interested in a possible motive for the taping other than the fact that one of the chaperone's had a camera available to record this so the denials could be nipped in the bud.
Too often I have heard stories of children being instructed to not inform their parents about the "lesson" they are being taught.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

What exactly was the chaperone supposed to do ?

One of the group leaders should have immediately walked up to the person inviting the students to pray along and quietly said that that wasn't the purpose of or part of the visit and that the group would simply stand at the back and watch, if that would be okay.

This was not rocket science.

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The bottom line here is that parents signed a permission slip to have their children observe. Knelling in prayer is not observing.

Knelling is bell ringing. I agree that the visit was only to observe, not to participate. And again I say that students want to try things out, so it was up to the leaders or even a chaperone to step in and take charge and remind everyone why they were there. No one did. The fault is with the white guys, not the brown ones.

Did the chaperone tape anything else, or just this part?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

The fault is with the white guys, not the brown ones.

Liberal racism rears it's ugly head again.

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

Liberal racism rears it's ugly head again.

How do you figure? The brown guys run the mosque. The white people came for a visit. Didn't you watch the video?

How about I say the Muslims were not at fault; the visitors were.

"Liberal racism rears it's ugly head" s/b "its head" since "it's" means "it is." "Its" with no apostrophe is possessive.

I think the "brown" people(as you call them) knew very well it was inappropriate . But you are right that it was the teachers present who were responsible for insuring it did not happen. That is why the school is being sued and not the Mosque.
Commissioner Wong said teachers were told students shouldn’t have been allowed to pray.

“We’re giving better guidance to our teachers. I don’t know if they’ll do [the field trip] differently but it won’t necessarily be because of this,”....“I support the field trip, I support them being able to go to observe; I do think allowing kids to participate in the prayer crossed the line.”

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

Liberal racism rears it's ugly head again.

Hello my UN-liberal friends:

Calling a white guy, a white guy isn't racism. Calling brown people, brown, or even (heaven forbid), black, isn't racism either...

If only you guys could get a grip in what racism IS, maybe you could help stamp it out. Here's an example of racism on FOX... Interestingly, Republican Al D'Amato goes postal on the guy...

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

I think the "brown" people(as you call them) knew very well it was inappropriate .

The hosts were brown; the guests were white. Look at the video. Had The Blue Men Group been there, I would have mentioned them by color too.

The students and chaperones were guests. Had there been baklava handed out, would the students have wanted some? Same for the experience of praying -- unlike in Western religions, the pray-er has to get down on all fours, lean forward with forehead touching the floor, etc. etc. etc. Sounds like a fun thing to try. And a Christian minister/priest would have surely invited Muslim students to pray along or participate in part of a impromptu worship service -- be an acolyte for five minutes or carry the cross in a pretend procession.

I've been to the D'Amato post office.

Here's a good example of a racist comment.
YouTube - Joe Biden's racist slip

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And a Christian minister/priest would have surely invited Muslim students to pray along or participate in part of a impromptu worship service -- be an acolyte for five minutes or carry the cross in a pretend procession.

And that would've been equally inappropriate. The only real difference is the reaction if it had happened in a church would've garnered all types of MSM condemnation . In this case it's dismissed as ' isn't no big thing'.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

And that would've been equally inappropriate.

True, but it's what religious leaders of all faiths do -- not to proselytize but to help others understand and experience. The leaders of this student group did not have any imagination or a proper discussion with the Muslims as to what would happen during the tour. I was a teacher and took/went with many groups on field trips. The leaders have to think outside the box to imagine all sorts of scenarios and prepare for them. These mosque visitors did an abysmal job of preparing.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

If they are exercising their rights, what's to report? I don't get it.

Exactly. Think about it.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

What exactly was the chaperone supposed to do ? Create a scene in the Mosque ? Physically prevent the students from participating ?

No, of course she wasn't supposed to create a scene. I actually answered that in my previous post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just_Another_Lemming

Please give some thought to this: If one of the 5 children was hers don't you think she would have grabbed him/her and kept them from joining in the prayer service? Wouldn't you if the child was yours? I certainly would. And, I would expect you as another parent to quietly and kindly tell the lady who was conducting the tour that she is entitled to her beliefs but this is considered a learning experience, not a participating one, and immediately hustle those children out of there.

In my experience, most kids still have a tendency to listen to & follow the direction of their friends' parents more than their own parents or their teachers. She wasn't in a position where she had to deal with this alone. With 200 children on the tour, there were more than just a couple of chaperones. Other parents and teachers were on the tour. I am left wondering why she didn't flag down at least one other adult, point out what was going on, and request their help to stop it from going any further.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

The bottom line here is that parents signed a permission slip to have their children observe. Knelling in prayer is not observing. I am not really interested in a possible motive for the taping other than the fact that one of the chaperone's had a camera available to record this so the denials could be nipped in the bud.

I agree the purpose was to observe. That is why I have such a hard time understanding why she chose to stand idly by during the entire "indoctrination" talk/speech the guide was giving. My point is, from these articles and the clips we see, it appears she made the decision to wait it out and videotape the students praying rather than, as soon as she heard what the mosque rep was saying, grab the attention of other chaperones/teachers, tell them what was going on and politely interrupt the tour guide prior to the children even given the opportunity to consider participating. Honestly, I don't have a problem with her videotaping the tour. As a matter of fact, that video camera was the perfect tool to use while this "indoctrination" was taking place. She could have chosen to use it while politely attempting to stop the coercion of the children. If the guide knew she was being taped, she might have backed off. It would have placed on record that she (Mom) attempted to stop the nonsense. But it appears from the reports & her tape that she didn't. My question to her is, why? It will be interesting to see if any other parent sues the school and doesn't include her in the lawsuit. It will also be interesting to see how far this lawsuit of hers will go and what the result will be.

As a secondary point I suppose the chaperone's motives are interesting . But it is being used in this discussion to distract from the underlying issue. This never should've happened.

The fact that this mosque has been the destination of other similar field trips that presumable were not taped ,I have to wonder how extensive the proselytization is... and how many other vulnerable boys have been enticed to participate during those trips ?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I have to wonder how extensive the proselytization is...and how many other vulnerable boys have been enticed to participate during those trips ?

Hello again, tom:

When I was a young and impressionable boy scout, my very Christian scout leader made us go to church when we were on a weekend camping trip. I don't know what kind of church is was, exactly, but when everybody else went up to receive holy communion, I did too.

I can assure you, it didn't sway me.

What I find curious, though, is this mysterious power you think Muslims have... If you're not quick enough, they'll proselytize your children. If you don't pay attention, they'll institute Sharia law... I don't know where that comes from.

Oh, if you listen to Newt, you'd believe it... But, he just wants to scare you.

excon

Newt is fat Elvis . I don't take him seriously.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...BMlL38B8UvAK6a
I love it that now you think this religious exposure isn't no big thing. This certainly deviates from your previous position on the subject.

Don't worry . Soon if the President has his way ,all reference to God will be scrubbed from the Declaration of Independence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

As a secondary point I suppose the chaperone's motives are interesting . But it is being used in this discussion to distract from the underlying issue. This never should've happened.

It never should have happened, and once it did, it should have been stopped. Both were the fault of the white guys.

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and how many other vulnerable boys have been enticed to participate during those trips?

I'm guessing those "vulnerable boys" forgot about it the minute they got back on the bus. Being a Muslim is an awful lot of work.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I love it that now you think this religious exposure aint no big thing. This certainly deviates from your previous postion on the subject.

Hello again, tom:

I'm not quite sure where I said it "ain't no big thing". I have NOT changed my mind. It is UNCONSTITUTIONAL for a school to arrange a visit to a mosque.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

What I find curious, though, is this mysterious power you think Muslims have... If you're not quick enough, they'll proselytize your children. If you don't pay attention, they'll institute Sharia law... I dunno where that comes from.

Isn't that what homosexuals are supposedly doing to our youth -- proselytizing and sucking them in? And who is saying all this stuff is happening??

The signs of Sharia in Dearborn Michigan

Its already happening in Dearborn Michigan. The Muslims Imposing Sharia on the non-muslims. Where is the ACLU... nowhere around is the answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

As a secondary point I suppose the chaperone's motives are interesting . But it is being used in this discussion to distract from the underlying issue. This never should've happened.

I agree this never should have happened but, unfortunately it did. It really pisses me off the mosque's rep/guide chose to use a field trip as an excuse to proselytize. However, I don't consider the chaperone's motives are a secondary point to this discussion because but for the actions or inactions as the case may be, taken by that mother, those 5 children might have been stopped from participating.

You bring up a very good point/question:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

The fact that this mosque has been the destination of other simular field trips that presumable were not taped,I have to wonder how extensive the proselytization is...and how many other vulnerable boys have been enticed to participate during those trips ?

I checked the MAS web site. It appears they do conduct these tours on a regular basis. I have to wonder why we haven't heard anything about this before unless this is the first time it occurred.? I can't believe that children who might have participated wouldn't say anything to their parents? I also can't believe that if this has occurred before how any parent would choose to ignore it and not make noise about it. I know I would if it was me. I am hopeful we will see some answers soon but you know how I feel about the media. If there isn't a good hook to a story or if they can't twist things to grab public attention, the story will die a quick death. BTW, here is a link to the MAS web site if you are interested in their side of the story. Of course, they have a completely different take on what happened and claim the rep was not proselytizing or attempting to convert anyone.
MAS Boston's Home Page

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they have a completely different take on what happened and claim the rep was not proselytizing or attempting to convert anyone.

The video shows a different story even if they choose to call it something else.

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I can't believe that children who might have participated wouldn't say anything to their parents?

It happens more often than you think. There are specific links I could provide . Suffice it to say that they are about culturally sensitive issues that would hopelessly divert this thred off track .

Its also been tried in Minniapolis/St Paul...

Sharia Law: Effects on and in America - by JD Russell - Helium

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just_Another_Lemming

I agree this never should have happened but, unfortunately it did. It really pisses me off the mosque's rep/guide chose to use a field trip as an excuse to proselytize. However, I don't consider the chaperone's motives are a secondary point to this discussion because but for the actions or inactions as the case may be, taken by that mother, those 5 children might have been stopped from participating.

You bring up a very good point/question:

I checked the MAS web site. It appears they do conduct these tours on a regular basis. I have to wonder why we haven't heard anything about this before unless this is the first time it occured. ???? I can't believe that children who might have participated wouldn't say anything to their parents? I also can't believe that if this has occured before how any parent would choose to ignore it and not make noise about it. I know I would if it was me. I am hopeful we will see some answers soon but you know how I feel about the media. If there isn't a good hook to a story or if they can't twist things to grab public attention, the story will die a quick death. BTW, here is a link to the MAS web site if you are interested in their side of the story. Of course, they have a completely different take on what happened and claim the rep was not proselytizing or attempting to convert anyone.
MAS Boston's Home Page

It doesn't matter if the parrents approved the trip or not... it was done on public school hours using public school equipment.

If Public school students aren't allowed to properly celibrate Christmas... a Christian Holiday and mention Christ... then exactly by what stretch of the imagination is it somehow fine to drag kids that should be learning important things to an Islamic Mosque, I'm still waiting to hear about the follow up trips to a Catholic Cathedral, A Jewish Temple, and a Protestant church. Oh right... you aren't allowed to do THAT in a public school.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

Its also been tried in Minniapolis/St Paul....

Hello again, smoothy:

--------------
"The dangerous plan to bring Sharia Law to America by various Radical Islamic Groups residing in America under the guise and use of democracy laws is slowly becoming a reality.

The assault on the American democratic way of life is being carried out right now on America's door step.

Recently, Somali taxi cab drivers of Islamic faith adhering to Sharia Law in Minneapolis-ST Paul refused to transport passengers from the airport because the passengers were carrying unopened bottles of liquor. This religious act of refusal is the first public shot across the bow in America as the global plan to compel America and the rest of the world to submit to Islam enters a new phase."
------------------------------------

That's it?? Cab drivers?? And, you're SCARED?? Dude!

You said in your post it's been "tried"... Nobody said, certainly not me, that Muslims aren't going to TRY to change the laws... EVERY group in America wants to CHANGE a law to suit themselves... What's new about that??

All I've said, and I STILL say it, is that our Constitution can withstand such assaults. My question for you, is why you think it won't.

excon