Ask Me Help Desk - Well it's Official: God did not create Universe

I didn't know that, thanks for the info.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I didn't know that, thanks for the info.

You're welcome. Okay who are you and what have you done to NK? We want him back.NOW!

This is the real me. :)

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Originally Posted by albear

guess its better to say 'i dont know how it happened' than to say 'my imaginary friend did it'

It would be more intellectually honest. I admit that my belief is a faith .He thinks science explains his faith .I say all he really did was renamed God "spontaneous creator" .

He says laws of nature like gravity cause creation .But gravity would not exist in the physical world without matter .There would be no purpose for it otherwise. Gravity did not create matter.
So which came 1st ? Gravity or matter ? If matter came 1st then his theory is shot down. If gravity came 1st then how were the laws of nature designed ?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

This is the real me. :)

Cute:)

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Originally Posted by tomder55

It would be more intellectually honest. I admit that my belief is a faith .He thinks science explains his faith .I say all he really did was renamed God "spontaneous creator" .

He says laws of nature like gravity cause creation .But gravity would not exist in the physical world without matter .There would be no purpose for it otherwise. Gravity did not create matter.
So which came 1st ? Gravity or matter ? If matter came 1st then his theory is shot down. If gravity came 1st then how were the laws of nature designed ?

So what about black holes, I'm pretty sure they aren't made of physical matter but they have an enormous gravitational pull?

A black hole is condensed and compact mass. It is not "nothing ".

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Originally Posted by tomder55

A black hole is condensed and compact mass. It is not "nothing ".

You're right Tomder.. We can't see the air we breath, but without it we would die. God created that also.

Hello again,

The which came first argument will yield NO results... What I'm interested in is infinity. Maybe God has been around forever. Certainly, the "brane" theory indicates that these membranes have been around forever.

But, I have a hard time grasping FOREVER. Don't you? I mean, it's easy in these arguments to just SAY it, and brush your hands... But, I think there NEEDS to BE a beginning.

excon

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Originally Posted by tomder55

A black hole is condensed and compact mass. It is not "nothing ".

ahhh reet, I thought they were a vacumme like space, just something else going on as well.

albears knowledge on black holes = updated

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

The which came first argument will yield NO results... What I'm interested in is infinity. Maybe God has been around forever. Certainly, the "brane" theory indicates that these membranes have been around forever.

But, I have a hard time grasping FOREVER. Don't you? I mean, it's easy in these arguments to just SAY it, and brush your hands... But, I think there NEEDS to BE a beginning.

excon

Agreed, everything has a beginning and an end

Well... there is some theory too that space is not vacuum ;)

Here's a quite interesting one:
~~~~~
Genrally
Unlike poles attract... like poles repel
Unlike charges attract... like charges repel
Unlike sex 'attract'... like sex 'repel'
So... matter attracts antimatter and matter repels matter...

Then why is there gravity?
Space is not a vacuum, but like a field which gets distorted by matter. Just like when you are standing on a bed, the bed is compressed under your feet, space is distorted. And anything that is on the bed gets trapped towards the distortion. If you placed a ping pong ball near the edge of the bed, it'll roll down towards you.

~~~~~

It's just a though... might be true, might not be true :)

This is getting into flying spaghetti monster territory but how do we know the big bang wasn't caused by someone else? From another universe?

How do we know our universe wasn't populated and contained planets before the big bang, but was destroyed, leaving all but a few remnants? Our sun is going to die eventually, maybe there was another sun beforew that, and another before that?

There are just so many possibilities. That first theory does coincide with the theory of Creation, but how do you know it's God and not someone else?

I won't go into my opinion of how God was created as I will no doubt offend a lot of people :o

Denseness:
A neutron star is as dense as a battleship packed into a one pint mayonnaise jar. A black hole is even more dense than that.

I tend to believe gravity came first. Its force is nuetral until acted upon. Just like a magnet has a sphere of influence so does gravity. That is why it has different stages.

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Originally Posted by excon

But, I think there NEEDS to BE a beginning.

Well ex, that's what we've been saying. Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created..." :D

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Originally Posted by shazamataz

This is getting into flying spaghetti monster territory but how do we know the big bang wasn't caused by someone else? From another universe?

How do we know our universe wasn't populated and contained planets before the big bang, but was destroyed, leaving all but a few remnants? Our sun is going to die eventually, maybe there was another sun beforew that, and another before that?

There are just so many possibilities. That first theory does coincide with the theory of Creation, but how do you know it's God and not someone else?

I won't go into my opinion of how God was created as I will no doubt offend a lot of people :o

Maybe we've just been going in a big circle and eventually we advance so far that we engage planetary war with another and laugh some kind of massive overly powered super nuke or something and so do they and they collide mid space and then explode (thats the big bang) wiping ut almost everything but the tiniest of life and the evolution cycle starts all over again even the suns expanding and collapsing in on themselves and other stars being born.

Its just one big circle of life :D

If anybody lives to see this, I want you to remember I called it ;)

Well this sums it all up really ;)

http://www.vtaide.com/png/images/egg-chicken.jpg

I haven't looked at what Hawking has written but I would guess that it will turn out to be a book about a possible Grand Unified Theory (GUT).

The problem has been gravity. Why is gravity such a weak force compared to the other fundamental forces? Physicists to date haven't been able to merge gravity into the other fundamental forces. Now there seems to be a theory which accounts for the apparent weakness of gravity.

Such a theory tends to lead some scientists and cosmologists to a belief that a theory of everything is now possible. This might suggest to us non-scientists that scientific theories may eventually come to a single underlying explanation. In theory scientists will be able to predict the outcome of any experiment. I think this is what Hawking means when he talks about, "knowing the mind of God."

I think this is more of a hope on Hawkings part rather than an actual replacement of God.

Just a guess on my part.

Tut

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Originally Posted by excon

But, I think there NEEDS to BE a beginning.

But that's only because you are a finite, linear-thinking kind of guy. I'm still fascinated by something Sylvia Browne said long ago that the deceased are all walking around us, but three feet up off our ground level -- sort of a parallel universe. So be sure to flush and throw your clothes into the hamper -- and make your bed every morning. Someone may be watching you.

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Originally Posted by Curlyben

Well this sums it all up really ;)

http://www.vtaide.com/png/images/egg-chicken.jpg

Yeah true, but my version had space battles, explosions and possibly even lightsabers (if I don't get sued) :)

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Originally Posted by Curlyben

Well this sums it all up really ;)

And don't you dream of a day when chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

And don't you dream of a day when chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned?

I love this!

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Originally Posted by asking

I love this!

Yeah, but I really hoped for lightsabers.

You all are just silly. ;)

Don't you know that the big white bunny created everything? That's why he gives us easter eggs and chocolate on Easter day. I mean really... duh! ;)

I still believe the egg came first. Just saying.

Ben, what a huge can of worms you've opened. Is this my influence? Giggle. :)

Tut , Hawking's attempt to find an 'Everything Theory' is just so much pulling at 'strings'.

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I still believe the egg came first. Just saying.

Probably... genetic mutation being what it is means that probably something besides a chicken laid the egg.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Tut , Hawking's attempt to find an 'Everything Theory' is just so much pulling at 'strings'.

But so is God.

I find it amazing that people that believe in the almighty God base their belief on a book written by men. God didn't write it. Jesus didn't write it. It was a bunch of men that wrote it.

I wrote a book, it's about a duck that talks, has a star on it's back, and plays video games. Even books based on fact are blown way out of proportion.

It's a book. Yes, it's called the bible (snazzy title), but it's a book. If you're basing all your beliefs on a book written by mere men, than you would logically have to consider other books written by men. Not all books agree with "The Bible". So who do you believe?

You're putting a lot of faith in a book. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

big white bunny

White? How big is big? Like, obese?

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

I wrote a book, it's about a duck that talks, has a star on it's back, and plays video games.

*cough* Yeah, whatever happened to that book?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

White? How big is big? Like, obese?

Well this is his brother, the grey bunny of the family.

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Alt . My comment to Tut was a play on words. Hawking is trying to tie a bunch of what are called 'string theories' together into one unifying theory to explain everything. An ambitious project for us mere mortals.

If I did not have the Bible I would still believe in a creator of the universe God . Many humans who have never read the Bible share this belief so it is more than just a book.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

*cough* Yeah, whatever happened to that book?

:eek: I'm getting to it. Really I am. I promise.

Hey, we can't hijack Ben's thread, he'll kill us and the bunny too. :eek:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Alt . My comment to Tut was a play on words. Hawking is trying to tie a bunch of what are called 'string theories together into one unifying theory to explain everything. An ambitious project for us mere mortals.

If I did not have the Bible I would still believe in a creator of the universe God . Many humans who have never read the Bible share this belief so it is more than just a book.

I'm not saying I buy Hawkings theory any more than I buy the bible. It's all just theory in my opinion.

I respect that you believe what you do. I once believed too. A series of events changed my beliefs. I still believe a God created the universe, or at least had a hand in it, but I don't believe he's a loving presence guiding our lives and looking out for us. Just a difference of opinion. :)

For the present discussion I was not invoking the God of the Bible beyond the believe in God the Creator .[Except my reference to Romans 1:19-22]

You say I still believe a God created the universe, or at least had a hand in it. Then we are in agreement .

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

I don't believe he's a loving presence guiding our lives and looking out for us.

But He brought you into MY life. That was Him looking out for me.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

But He brought you into MY life. That was Him looking out for me.

:) Well, how can I argue with that? Darnit. You win. :)

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Originally Posted by tomder55

probably ...genetic mutation being what it is means that probably something besides a chicken laid the egg.

Exactly. You all get As in biology.

Aww... I was looking for an A*...

;)

Abraham taught that God is infinite. Gautama taught that God is within each of us. Now Hawking is trying to say God is an equation. Ambitious of him.