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From what I hear the top kill was in the works from day one ;but at the depth it was a huge engineering challenge.
There is no guarantee that this will hold ,but by taking their time ,they increased the chances of success.
"plug the damn hole" hmmm probably don't want to go there . My guess that comment was strategerly timed to coincide with the progress updates that BP was surely supplying the administration.
The birds and fish a suffering, The fisherman and the riggers and out of work. Governor Jindel is trying set out sandbars to filter to oil before is hits the wetlands. By the way this the U.S. rain forest. But he's being stopped by the EPA got to do that impact study. The Fed's obstruct every move. st they loose the money set aside in 1985 to handle and have the equipment to stop the spill from reaching the shore. No one has been able to tell me what happened to that federal program. Then the president want to take credit for plugging the hole. If it wasn't such a sad attempt it would be funny. I've lived in oil country all of my life. Plugging the hole was always on the table. Finding a way to control the pressure had to be addressed first or plugging the hole would not have lasted. Drill a well to remove the need for the plug is the next step. Let the drillers do their job. Stop the oil. The Fed's need to get of their high horses and find away to cut the red tape and these lands protected. To the issue of it's only the gulf. Look up the gulf steam and see who that affects. To the issue of stop all drilling. Take a look and you will see
Almost every country in the world drills in the gulf. The U.S. pulling out makes no sense,
This makes no sense. Do you want more drilling or not?Quote:
Originally Posted by meyowgee
Did you watch the President's press conference today? It's BP that has the technology and equipment to fix what got broken. He said the easy oil has been removed. Now companies are going deeper and drilling as much as three miles down to find oil. The complications of that are many, and stopping a break in a well is beyond difficult. It's not like plugging up a hole in a swimming pool.
WG, he also said he's been in charge from Day 1. Even the MSM couldn't swallow that. Using this accident to rescind his drilling permits is so convenient a conspiracy theorist would be thinking Bob Gibbs went and played cherry bomb in the toilet just so an accident would happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Hello again:Quote:
Originally Posted by Catsmine
There's no being in charge. There's only LOOKING like you're in charge. Bush couldn't lead his way out of a paper bag, but, he LOOKED like he was leading when he spoke through the bullhorn at ground zero. The president needs to get into a rowboat at the site and address the workers through a bullhorn.
Like the health care debate, Obama lost the conversation. Strike 2.
excon
To answer I don't see why we should stop the drilling. The US needs it. With every other country drilling in the gulf us pulling out only drives up prices unemployment
But what we do need the safety people to back away from the porn and do their job's. Wait a Fed employee has their job for life just like the Union and they are protected from law suits because they are civil servants. Wow what a deal! Great pay, and I don't have to do a good job. By the way Obama has given them all raises.
I think "stop the oil" was the answer to "Let the drillers do their job." Not stop drilling, stop the leak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
He said it took place on his watch and he takes responsibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catsmine
MSM or MMS?
“Did you plug the hole yet, Daddy” Did he really use that? What a putz.
Recession, Tom, is when business finds the solution, depression is when the government imposes their solution. In this context I expect certain parts of the US will be in depression for years with the government providing handouts as a solution but don't worry; a great new industry, off shore drilling, will take the place of fisheries and the recession will recedeQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Main Stream Media, normally his biggest fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
The actual quote was:
Obama on BP oil spill: "I'm fully engaged." Press conference transcript - Lynn SweetQuote:
The American people should know that from the moment this disaster began, the federal government has been in charge of the response effort.
It is my understanding that anglers have a lot of luck casting their line towards the platforms . They attract the fish much like an artificial reef .Quote:
but don't worry; a great new industry, off shore drilling, will take the place of fisheries and the recession will recede
Of course now you have the added benefit of pan-frying them without adding butter.
Here is what Obot Peggy Noonan says now that she is coming down from the koolaid high .Quote:
The president needs to get into a rowboat at the site and address the workers through a bullhorn.
Like the health care debate, Obama lost the conversation. Strike 2
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...tions_opinion#Quote:
"The president, in my view, continues to govern in a way that suggests he is chronically detached from the central and immediate concerns of his countrymen. This is a terrible thing to see in a political figure, and a startling thing in one who won so handily and shrewdly in 2008. But he has not, almost from the day he was inaugurated, been in sync with the center. The heart of the country is thinking each day about A, B and C, and he is thinking about X, Y and Z. They're in one reality, he's in another."
It isn't that he is losing the debate.It's because he is disconnected from reality . It took a rant by James Carville to wake him from his slumber .
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I said that same thing back then. Nothing has changed - except the world found out I was right.
excon
That's fine Tom if you like three eyed fishQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
'Clete, are you trying to set up a blue and bold font as "deadpan response to sarcasm?" I can work with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
I just received this:
Here it goes again...Quote:
Originally Posted by CNN
Yes we have heard the bad news. What this demonstrates is we have stepped over the threshold of our technology into the abyss. Let us hope we can find a way of harvesting the oil and cutting off the flow. Perhaps the reason the problem exists is we don't understand the pressures at that depth. There must be a reason why the rig failed and it may be the same reason the leak isn't stoppedQuote:
Originally Posted by Unknown008
The drilling of relief wells is the ultimate answer to this .But that takes time. These other attempts are at best stop-gap measures.
Yes, Tom, that may be, however there is nothing to say these wells won't suffer similar problems handling the pressureQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Remember this is corporate America here.
BP may declare bankrupsy and take vacations just like the banking industry. Then what?
Well then you know who will be left with both the bill and the cleanup, so much for taking ultimate responsibilityQuote:
Originally Posted by KeepItSimpleStupid
Quote:
Yes, Tom, that may be, however there is nothing to say these wells won't suffer similar problems handling the pressure
But we know it can be done because it has been done .In fact this BP exploration isn't the deepest in the Gulf let alone the world .It's not even the deepest one BP has drilled in the Gulf .
The Tiber well is about 250 miles southeast of Houston in U.S. waters. At 35,055 feet, it is as deep as Mount Everest is tall, not including more than 4,000 feet of water above it.
Read more: BP drills deepest oil well in the world
This was an accident that occurred during the drilling. There have been no problems associated with wells completed .
I thought they were cementing it for "future use"?
And so you think that because something has been successful it should work without a problem all the time. I expect this is the theory inside BP too which may be why they haven't been successful in plugging the leak. I expect that the conditions of each well are unique.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I wonder why the Hay option hasn't been used in the cleanup?
The depth of the drilling is only a concern because of the engineering challenge it presents to fix the leak . Human nature being what it is ;we will continue to move beyond the edge of our technical knowhow ,and yes accidents have always and will happen when we probe.
Although I agree that prudent caution and all known safeguards should obviously be employed ;
It appears to me that risk adversion due to accidents like 3 Mile Island sets back human technological development.
We should by now have a larger share of our energy generated by clean nuclear power.
I think that when all is said and done it will be demonstrated that intentional decisions by BP regarding things like worker safety,complaceny (overlooking simple things like making sure the battery was sufficiently charged in the blowout preventer), and shortcuts to save money (despite knowing the inherrent risks ),were the real cause of the accident .
Combine that with a basic flaw in the regulatory design (the Minerals Management Service had the duel role of ensuring oil drilling safety and royalties from oil and gas companies... a clear conflict of interests )
I will remind you that a blowout spill off Santa Barbara 41 years ago still haunts the US . That began the movement to ban off shore drilling in shallow waters ;which in turn compelled the oil companies to look for reserves in deeper water.
A spill by the Exxon Valdez ( the captain was drunk and AWOL)created a nationwide ban that went on until oil prices started to change the risk equation .
Some of us for years have been promoting drilling on land in remote areas where there are vast reserves.. in places like ANWR Alaska. I imagine a blowout there would be much easier to deal with than one in the deep waters of the Gulf ;with much less of an environmental and economic impact .
When the shuttle Challenger exploded an investigation revealed a flaw in the design of a simple O ring. But investigations also revealed a complacent group-think at NASA ,its contractors, and leadership bred by success. We did not end manned space missions because of the accident .We corrected the problems and moved on . That is what should happen here .
What should the President do ? While he enjoys his holiday barbecue in Chi-town ;instead of posturing on issues he knows nothing about ;he should call on someone with experience to head up a task force to oversee the Federal response to this crisis.Ideally that person would have the time to devote 24/7 in dealing with it. Someone who has run a task force previously and has had a great degree of success dealing with the oil companies . Someone who has compelled them to get on board with the program despite tremendous political opposition ,even from that person's political party. Someone who could field dress them if necessary.
Yes ,President Obama should reach across the political divide and appoint Sarah Palin to head his executive task force to deal with the BP Deepwater spill.
Hello tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
For a minute there I thought you were going to say Cheney. As wrong as that would have been, Palin is even wronger. She's an idiot of the first magnitude. You guys say a lot of things that shock me. This tops it.
excon
Yes and we could well expect that this blowout will ban offshore drilling in deep water for the same reasons, when the risks are realised people are found to be very risk averseQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
.What is it you think another air head career politician can contribute to the solution?The best will in the world and all the rhetoric will not make any difference, BO is not God and nor is Sarah Palin. The solution is apparently, according to the present logic, to drill an intercept relief well and that is proceeding as planned. We are in the relm of action seeming to take place and being seen to take place and yes there has been much action and little of it has proved effective in doing anything. Time for radical solutions, which I hope don't include bankrupting BP or seizing their assets which might be counter productiveQuote:
Yes ,President Obama should reach across the political divide and appoint Sarah Palin to head his executive task force to deal with the BP Deepwater spill.
Obama Cancels Asia Trip, Heads to Gulf
For the second time, that is. Personally I don't see why he would need to cancel, the spill hasn't stopped him from partying on...
If you're counting, that's:
* Two days of media events (White House Correspondents Dinner and a tête a tête with Bono)
* Three days of fundraising
* Four commemorations (graduations, Cinco de Mayo, etc)
* Six days of vacation
* Six days of campaigning
* Six sports events
* Seven days of golf
And that little soirée with Calderon while 15 million Americans are jobless and the Gulf is being ruined at Club 1600?
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4003/...dbb86e0673.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4044/...fe83a07f47.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4045/...d1b9c4ed5b.jpg
Heckuva job, Barry.
From the guy who brought you "plug the damn hole" as his solution to the spill, Obama is getting tough after all that partying.
Has he been taking lessons in being presidential from Biden?Quote:
“I was down there a month ago, before most of these talkin’ heads were even paying attention to the gulf. A month ago I was meeting with fishermen down there, standin’ in the rain talking about what a potential crisis this could be. And I don’t sit around just talking to experts because this is a college seminar, we talk to these folks because they potentially have the best answers, so I know whose a$$ to kick.”
Hello again, Steve:
I know you don't like him... but for saying a$$?? Dude!
excon
Dude, if he wants to look like an a$$ that's his choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Too bad he didn't think it worth his while to talk to BP chief Tony Hayward.Quote:
A month ago I was meeting with fishermen down there, standin’ in the rain talking about what a potential crisis this could be. And I don’t sit around just talking to experts because this is a college seminar, we talk to these folks because they potentially have the best answers, so I know whose a$$ to kick.”
I don't get it . It has been his mo to haul into the WH every executive from every industry he plans on enforcing his will over. Why not the BP exec who has taken a lead role in the crisis ? Perhaps the delays and confusion has been a lack of direction i.e. leadership ?
That's just it tom, he's either disconnected or misdirecting, I suspect both. He's known all along that this could go on for months, and if he doesn't know to talk to Hayward he's an idiot as Adm Allen has said he's the guy he trusts and gets answers from as I've documented here elsewhere. Not to mention his administration already boasting of keeping their boot on BP's neck... this is all for show, again.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Hello tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Perhaps... Or it's been GOOD leadership, depending on how it eventually works out... His mistake, if there was one, was believing BP from the get go. But, who else SHOULD he have believed?
He DOES seem to be chasing events, instead of standing in front of them... Is that communication or leadership, or are they one in the same?
excon
I think leadership would've been thinking ahead. Once he knew that it would take time to cap the spill ;the next course was to see how he could contain it.
He is NOT dependent on BP for that . He has the resources of the entire US government including the Navy ;Coast Guard ,the Engineers . The best illustration of this is the lack of a timely response for Governor Jindal's urgent requests .
There has also been a lack of imagination as was illustrated in the straw demonstration on Rick's OP ,and the use of skimmers which the Saudi's have effectively used in Persian Gulf spills .
He says he consults experts .Fine ;I take him at his word. He also consulted his experts before making decisions about Afghanistan . Then he waffled for months. It is becoming a pattern.
Why does HE have to contain the oil spill? He's big government. Keep him out of it. Industry knows what it is doing. The military doesn't deal with oil drilling.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Hello again:
One COULD say that the government SHOULD have had the emergency equipment necessary to clean it up, or contain it, or even stop it from happening in the first place...
One could even look for somebody to blame for NOT having that stuff, too, if one wanted to. But, it don't make no never mind. Government IS going to have it in the future.
Is that what you want, tom - bigger government?
excon
He said he was in charge, you want to excuse him now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
You don't want him to be in charge. You want private industry to be in charge. So far that is the case, despite what he says. There is nothing he can do to contain the oil spill. He can mobilize cleanup, but that's all. Only BP can fix what they broke.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
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