Hello again, in:Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
No big deal. Walking down the street while being Mexican?
excon
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Hello again, in:Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
No big deal. Walking down the street while being Mexican?
excon
That's a broad brush depiction. Our government lack of enforcement of immigration laws is not something I support.Quote:
you guys are sweet with a few million,
Uh no, the law does not provide for harassing folks for "walking down the street while being Mexican" and you know that.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
All Arizona did was to give itself the authority to enforce existing Federal law.
Hello Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
I DIDN'T know that, so I read the law. I know it now.
excon
Please name for me any other country in the world (other than USA) that knowingly permits or allows illegal aliens to reside within their borders for years without being deported?
What other country gives them free money, free medical care, allows them to commit crimes and run to sanctuary cities without prosecution, and takes jobs from the lawful citizens of that country and then cries "foul" when they are caught?
Try as I may, I cannot name one other country on this planet other than the USA that permits or allows this kind of behavior.
What gives these people the "right" to be immune from being ID'd to see if they are here legally or not? In other countries around the world this is the norm for tourists to be stopped and ID'd to see if they are supposed to be in that country or not. What's so special about these people that they can be immune to being asked if they are in this country legally or illegally?
But aren't the people of Arizona hiring them for jobs? They are paying them to come over but giving them jobs. Why are they doing that?
Hello twink:Quote:
Originally Posted by twinkiedooter
It really doesn't matter what other country does it. What matters is that WE DID IT - and we've done it for a long, long time. The result is people who have lived here for YEARS and established themselves.
Given that you have correctly identified the bad guy - THE GOVERNMENT, we shouldn't take it out on the people who only did what you yourself would have done. Yes, they got to the border and saw a sign saying DO NOT ENTER. Then they read the next sign which said HELP WANTED.
excon
The left, in their rush to boycott all things Arizona, have called one of my favorite beverages "the drink of fascists." I'd really appreciate it if these morons would do their homework first, Arizona Iced Tea is made in New York. And just so no one gets any ideas about one of my favorite restaurants should you get angry with my state, Texas Roadhouse is not based in Texas.
Meanwhile, San Francisco cuts off diplomatic relations with Arizona. Would anyone in Arizona care?
I think Arizona should deport all the illegals they catch to the sanctuary city by the bay .
That is the best idea I've heard all day. Makes perfect sense.
Hello again,Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Me too.
excon
The law is clear as far as what is required to be here. Citizenchip... green card or Visa specifying the length of stay.
And incidentally... with countries where we have a reciprocity agreement... they may not require a VISA to vist... but the duration of such visit is limited to 6 months.
The police have every bit the same right to ask for that information as they do to ask for your drivers license.
Every nation has the sovereign right to control its borders and determine who can and can not be there.
Illegals of any ethnicity HAVE no constitutional right to violate that law... or any other law for that matter, just because geographiclly most in a certain physical place ARE a certain ethnic group means nothing.
And incidentally... exactly what law exempts illegals from having to comply with ANY American law? Latinos are no more special than Chinese or Russian illegals just to name two as an example.
They can apply for legal immigration just like everyone else has to. Why are they special enough to not follow the rules and the law and wait their turn.
Which incidentally violates the rights of those who do comply... and follow the law.
I think that's a perfect idea. Let them and their residents pay all the costs to educate, treat in hosipitals and feed them.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
See how long they remain a sanctuary city that's violating federal law.
How about we ask San Francisco why they don't offer sanctuary to all the nations child molesters too. What makes the Illegals any more special than American citizens anyway. I'd love for them to answer that question.
Los Angeles and San Fran want to boycot anything from Arizona... how about we all boycott everything from California since THEY are not paying for the true costs of the nations illegals THEY are trying to shield from the law.
What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander. See who has more to lose?
Hello again, smoothy:Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
I don't know. To ME, there's a difference between somebody who wants to blow your leaves, and somebody who wants to blow your children. YOU? Not so much.
excon
Those Illegals KILL many on the highways every year (we had two high profile ones in the news locally this year)... Inflict grave financial damage to others as most drive without a License or insurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Or they rape and kill people... a large percentage of gang members are illegals... I can name any number... and barely scratch the surface, besides any number of OTHER law violations..
Hmmm that or some dumb rebellious teenage girl wanting to sleep with a loser that can't get a woman his own age...
Gee... which of those is worse. Besides ALL of them being against the law.
Using their OWN words... (calling latino's BROWN people).
Why should "Brown" people be above the law everyone else has to follow.
Why should Latinos be allowed to break the law that lets say Europeans (or Even Canadians) have to follow.
And President Blowhard in Mexico... ask him how do THEY treat illegals from south of THEIR border? See I know the answer to that... and they are particularly harsh on them.
There are plenty of times we as Americans are asked to show identiy, and they check for outstanding warrants etc.. whats wrong with checking immigration status as well... I have no problem with that. Why should illegals be above the law. And that IS what the Arizona Law is about... not the "walking while Brown" claims.
Incidentally... if you have EVER spent much time in another Country... you would know its very common for them to do that very thing (checking your papers), I've had it happen in at least 8 different countries I remember. I didn't get all indignant about it.
Ex, as repetitive as this is it doesn't matter if they're just here to blow your leaves. It has been federal law for some 70 years that non-citizens have been required to carry their papers on them at all times, has it not?
We citizens are expected to present identification to do just about anything; cash a check, open a bank account, get a hotel room, go to a bar or a doctor, get on an airplane, buy a pair of socks with a debit card or some Sudafed at the pharmacy - and yes, when we get pulled over by the cops. Should illegal aliens be exempted?
ROFL :p:p:p:p:pQuote:
Originally Posted by excon
We don't agree on much but your wit does make me laugh .
You think that was funny,Tom I think ex's remark was pathetic and racial profiling at its worst. What he is saying is you have eleven million hispanic pedophiles in the USAQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Then you didn't read the smoothy comment he was replying to.
Thank you, Reverend Sharpton. This type of race-baiting is what has made the entire question of ethnicity so vitriolic. It shows the writer's racism much more than it attacks anyone else'sQuote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Hello:
I wonder if the right wing knows that Mexicans were in Arizona LONG before the white man came?? Nahhh, they don't care about that.
excon
OK, I thought it was funny, too. Ex does make me laugh for reasons other than his opinions :DQuote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Uh, actually it was inhabited by Indians, then explored by Spaniards who established missions and presidios until it became a part of Mexico in 1821. After the US-Mexican war, which you can debate if you like, the U.S. paid $15 million under the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo for most of the territory and then purchased the rest in the Gadsden Purchase. The land belongs to the U.S. under treaty, with agreed upon compensation and an outright purchase. So what's your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
And the natives were there even earlier .Quote:
I wonder if the right wing knows that Mexicans were in Arizona LONG before the white man came?? Nahhh, they don't care about that.
The truth is that the land in Arizona was sparsely populatedfor most of the 19th Century.
Mexico has not owned the territory in the State of Arizona since the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hildago and the Gadsen Purchase .The illegal immigrants have no claim on the land ;despite the Reconquista movement .
But you make an interesting observation . The Mexicans looking for people to do the work Mexicans wouldn't do invited the Gringos into their terrirtory and did not do anything to try to prevent or control this immigration wave until it was too late . Do we want history to repeat ?
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Let's get down to it. The WAVE isn't the issue, although we can discuss WHY it takes up to a decade for visa to be obtained... But, forgetting THAT for a moment, what do you want to to with the millions that are already here? Send 'em back, or leave 'em alone?
excon
Send them back... tell them to make their applications from their home country like everyone else has to do. That's the law, that's the process. Its our country, IF they wish to come here they will follow OUR law, and OUR rules.
IF the do.. they will be welcomed. If they don't they will not only be tossed out, but they will lose any right to apply in the future.
That provides the incentive for them to leave voluntarily. If they do they can apply. If we catch them and throw them out they will never be allowed back legally, (we will have biometrics to catch anyone who tries to use a different name after being tossed out) and should have any assets seized and sold and jail time as a disincentive to breaking the law.
And too bad about them having to wait... this isn't Burger King.
Hello again, smoothy:Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Couple things. The process takes up to ten years, and lots of money they don't have. You'll be breaking up families forever, because the children are citizens and the parents are not. I don't know how that sits with the right wing screed about family values. But, I think you mean WHITE family's. I don't think you care what happens to the brown ones.
Before you begin again about crime, I categorically REJECT the notion that illegals commit crimes in a greater proportion than their share of the population. Yes, I'll show you the studies if I must.
But, from an anecdotal perspective, you should be able to debunk this crap yourself, in your own brain, WITHOUT seeing the data. You DO know that Irish immigrants were the bad guys once. They were accused of committing MORE than their share of crime too. But, it turned out not to be so. The Italians too, were wrongly accused. When the Deutchmark collapsed and there were no jobs, the Germans blamed the Jews, and we know how that turned out.
Unless you're a bigot, you cannot believe that any particular people are predisposed to crime.
excon
Lets go back to some more history for reference.
Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986... Ronald Reagan signed it into law a one time amnesty under the promise that it would grant legal status to illegal immigrants, crack down on employers who hired illegal workers and secure the border once and for all.
We were lied to . There were fraudulent applications and fraudulent documents ;employers continued to hire illegals and no effort to control the border was seriously attempted .
Fool me once...
Here is what Marco Rubio ,son of Cuban immigrant/exiles ,and possibly the next Governor of Florida says about the 1986 shamnesty :
“In 1986 Ronald Reagan granted amnesty to 3 million people,” Rubio said. “You know what happened, in addition to becoming 11 million a decade later? There were people trying to enter the country legally, who had done the paperwork, who were here legally, who were going through the process, who claimed, all of a sudden, 'No, no no no , I'm illegal.' Because it was easier to do the amnesty program than it was to do the legal process.”
Rubio says that if you give them the idea that they can cross the border illegally and just play prevent defense to buy sufficient time until they are legal knowing we will let them stay,that there will be no incentive to do immigrate legally.
Like me ;he thinks you have to demonstrate you can control the border and enforce existing laws and /or create a legal immigration /visa system that works before you consider what is to be done with the illegals that are here.
If employers are sufficiently fined for hiring them ,and tamper proof residency cards and green cards created ,then,not being able to find work;by attrition alone, the number of illegals will be reduced.
I see no reason why legal immigrants and Hispanic -Americans would oppose this .
Back to the history lesson.
Caesar Chavez ;who has been designated as a hero of the Reconquista movement was a champion of migrant worker's rights. He organized the AFW to make them a force.
In 1979 he testified to Congress that "... when the farm workers strike and their strike is successful, the employers go to Mexico and have unlimited, unrestricted use of illegal alien strikebreakers to break the strike. And, for over 30 years, the Immigration and Naturalization Service has looked the other way and assisted in the strikebreaking. I do not remember one single instance in 30 years where the Immigration service has removed strikebreakers. ... The employers use professional smugglers to recruit and transport human contraband across the Mexican border for the specific act of strikebreaking..."
Prior to that he led marches to the Mexican border to protest illegal immigration. He marched side by side with Sen. Walter Mondale and Ralph Abernathy .Back then ,before the Dems decided to exploit the illegals as a potential voting block they were more concerned with the rights of poor workers who were here legally... now... not so much.
You better produce those studies then because I'm waving the BS flag on THAT claim... because EVERY single illegal is guilty of at least ONE crime... if they have a fake Idea then there are several more... Not to mention Violation of tax laws on top of that... Laws requireing Drivers licenses to operate vehicles... which they can not legally get. Then driving uninsured etc... And the list keeps growing.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Most Latino gang members ARE illegals... Most Triad and Russian Mob members are illegals.
So YOUR claim that Illegals are the most upstanding bunch on the planet is total BS.
And "Studies" by "La Raza" or "Casa di Maryland" or other groups that think Illegals are above the law do not count as credible.
I see the crime illegals commit every day... I see the carnage illegals cause on the highways... I see the high cost illegals cause legal US residents every single day. In the emergency rooms WE have to pay for... in HIGHER property taxes WE have to pay to educate their basterd offspring they don't pay for... the Food stamps liberals give to the illegals to subsidize their crimes, and it keeps going on and on.
What I fail to see is ANY reason why these CRIMINALS deserve to be exempt friom the law.
Illegals ARE Criminals... Illegals commit a DISPORPORTIONATEly HIGH amount of crime.
You must live in San Francisco because you seem unable to grasp the reality the rest of the population sees every day.
And incidentally... Latinos have NO more right to any land here than any white person has... Central America was essentually stolen from the Indians by the Spanish. Where the latinos get off thinking they have some ancesteral right to anything is beyond comprehension by any thinking person.
Let them stay in their OWN country if they ccan't follow the law..
And if they can break that law... then we can break the law by shooting them on site.
After all, its only a law, right?
Hello again, smoothy:Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
I don't know. We have highways. We have illegals.
excon
Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Crime Summary
While this report has attempted to put a personal face on the collateral damage of illegal alien crime, note that many of the links in this report detailing some of the crime are dependent on the archiving time of some of the various sources making their articles available. Once taken down, many of the crimes simply "disappear" from American consciousness.
As an example, I'm willing to bet that most people living outside of the Denver metro are not aware that in the fall of 1999 five Asian gang members, illegal aliens as it was reported many years latter, kidnapped and gang raped a University of Colorado coed. Initiation rites were involved and they specifically targeted a "white woman."
If it wasn't for the archiving efforts of some groups fighting illegal immigration general knowledge of such incidents would be lost to all but the most serious researcher. Even with the internet it is very difficult to track down and report the participation level of illegal aliens in crime because NOBODY IS KEEPING TRACK! However, as this report has detailed and documented, it is quite considerable and is the direct consequence of our unfettered immigration policy, porous borders, sanctuary cities, and lack of enforcement.
In recent Testimony of District Attorney John M. Morganelli before the House Subcommittee on immigration, Border, Security and Claims he stated:
"Unfortunately, the majority of illegal aliens who are here are engaged in criminal activity. Identity theft, use of fraudulent social security numbers and green cards, tax evasion, driving without licenses represent some of the crimes that are engaged in by the majority of illegal aliens on a daily basis merely to maintain and hide their illegal status.
In addition, violent crime and drug distribution and possession is also prevalent among illegal aliens. Over 25% of today's federal prison population are illegal aliens. In some areas of the country, 12% of felonies, 25% of burglaries and 34% of thefts are committed by illegal aliens."
Ignoring the "minor crime" such as ID theft and property crimes being committed by illegal aliens, here is a summary on some of the collateral damage reaped in crimes as a result of tolerating illegal aliens in the USA:
•In Los Angeles, 95% of some 1,500 outstanding warrants for homicides are for illegal aliens. About 67% of the 17,000 outstanding fugitive felony warrants are for illegal aliens.
•There are currently over 400,000 unaccounted for illegal alien criminals with outstanding deportation orders. At least one fourth of these are hard core criminals.
•80,000 to 100,000 illegal aliens who have been convicted of serious crimes are walking the streets. Based on studies they will commit an average of 13 serious crimes per perpetrator.
•Illegal aliens are involved in criminal activities at a rate that is 2-5 times their representative proportion of the population.
•In 1980, our Federal and state facilities held fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens but at the end of 2003, approximately 267,000 illegal aliens were incarcerated in U.S. correctional facilities at a cost of about $6.8 billion per year.
•At least 4.5 million pounds of cocaine with a street value of at least $72 billion is smuggled across the southern border every year.. .
•56% of illegal aliens charged with a reentry offense had previously been convicted on at least 5 prior occasions.
•Illegal aliens charged with unlawful reentry had the most extensive criminal histories. 90% had been previously arrested. Of those with a prior arrest, 50% had been arrested for violent or drug-related felonies.
•Illegal aliens commit between 700,000 to 1,289,000 or more crimes per year.
•Illegal aliens commit at least 2,158 murders each year – a number that represents three times greater participation than their proportion of the population.
•Illegal alien sexual predators commit an estimated 130,909 sexual crimes each year.
•There may be as many as 240,000 illegal alien sex offenders circulating throughout America. Based on studies, they will commit an average of 8 sex crimes per perpetrator before being caught.
•Nearly 63% of illegal alien sex offenders had been deported on another offense prior to committing the sex crime.
•Only 2% of the illegal alien sex offenders in one study had no history of criminal behavior, beyond crossing the border illegally.
•In Operation Predator, ICE arrested and deported 6,085 illegal alien pedophiles. Some studies suggest each pedophile molests average of 148 children. If so, that could be as many as 900,580 victims.
•Nobody knows how big the Sex Slave problem is but it is enormous.
•The very brutal MS-13 gang has over 15,000 members and associates in at least 115 different cliques in 33 states.
•The overall financial impact of illegal alien crimes is estimated at between $14.4 and $81 billion or more per year. Factor in the crime as a result of the cocaine and other drugs being smuggled in and the number may reach $150 billion per year.
Still think illegal immigration is a "victimless crime" and we don't need to control our borders? Remember, about 60% of the crimes being committed are by illegal aliens who were previously deported.
Allowing our borders to be disregarded coupled with little national commitment about doing anything about it has resulted in growing mayhem by illegal alien criminals, not a "victimless crime."
As the previous sections have detailed, the dark side of illegal immigration includes a lot of horrific crime being perpetrated by the hard core criminal element of the illegal alien population. In the cost-benefit tradeoff of tolerating illegal immigration, how much collateral damage are we willing to accept?
In tolerating illegal immigration, how many Americans do YOU accept being molested, raped and murdered each year to save ten cents on a head of lettuce?
From..
Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Crime Summary
If you love the illegals so much... give us a shipping address... we will send them all out your way, free of charge.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
But we accept no returns.
Hello smoothy:
That's what THAT guy said. It's no better than YOU saying it. It's anecdotal with some right wing vigor thrown in.
Here's a STUDY, with RESEARCH to back it up. The following is from the summary:
Crime, Corrections, and California What Does Immigration Have to Do with It?
By Kristin F. Butcher and Anne Morrison Piehl
With research support from Jay Liao
Few issues are as contentious as immigration and crime. Calls to curtail immigration, particularly illegal immigration, appeal to public fears about immigrants' involvement in criminal activities.
Are such fears justified?
In our assessments, we use measures of incarceration and institutionalization as proxies for criminal involvement. We find that the foreign-born, who make up about 35 percent of the adult population in California, constitute only about 17 percent of the adult prison.
Thus, immigrants are underrepresented in California prisons
Compared to their representation in the overall population. In fact, U.S. born adult men are incarcerated at a rate over two-and-a-half times greater than that of foreign-born men. The difference only grows when we expand our investigation. When we consider all institutionalization (not only prisons but also jails, halfway houses, and the like) and focus on the population that is most likely to be in institutions because of criminal activity (men ages 18–40), we find that, in California, U.S.-born men are institutionalized at a rate that is 10 times higher than that of foreign- born men (4.2% vs. 0.42) %). And when we compare foreign-born men to U.S.-born men with similar age and education levels, these differences become even greater.
excon
Total BS... your statsmust originate from the DNC propaganda wing. THe White house owns that Domain.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
I suppose all the illegals in our schools... in our jails... are all figments of everyone's imagination...
Have you ever even spoken to a cop before? Obviously not. Ever sit into a courtroom? Funny how that a group that as YOU claim commits no disporportionate amount of crime is so so HIGHLY disporportionate on any court Docket... which reflects MY statistics... not yours.
Its easy to check... they are posted in the courts. And its easy to sit in on them as well. If YOUR stats were accurate it would mean over 70% of the population where I live would be either black or hispanic. Based on the people in front of the court... and that is so NOT the case.
You know... We've seen this before... was it the Wizard of Oz... "Pay no attention to the man behinds the curtain...."
The only place where Latinos (illegals for the most part) and blacks are NOT a lions share of offenders would be Alaska.
With statistics like those how come the US hasn't declared war on illegal aliens, it took far less to declare war on terrorists in foreign places.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Ah, I understand, you don't want urban warfare in the US but from these statistics you have it already
I read it so what you are telling me is you were endorsing ex's insult to smoothy as well as confirming his opinion of hispanicsQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Trust me in certain areas it does seem that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
You can't get a job in construction if you don't speak spanish... and the average wage in that field has dropped over 50% in the last 25 years. And that's NOT adjusted for inflation. The hourly wage was twice as high before it became dominated with cheap illegal labor. Its far worse than that adjusted for inflation.
We don't hate foreigners... we hate people that think the law doesn't apply to them. And I'm sure Australia has its share of illegals. They just happen to be from a different place.
And Incidentally... Ex as well as the liberals pretend to make this appear to be racist and anti-hispanic. Illegals are illegals... not all are hispanic... and none of them deserve to be above the law. Its OUR country... not theirs.
And Mexican President Calderon is a biggoted blowhard. Do some research about how harsh his country (Mexico) treats illegals from Central America... a Turkish Prison would seem like a vacation. How does he get off demanding HIS people have a right to invade OUR country.
Yes and just as for you our experience is that these people are foriegners. Ours are not quite so lawless but they have similar tendencies like running drug cartels and exploiting and killing each otherQuote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Well, what I meant, while most of ours are central and south American due to proximity... yours are likely from the Asian region for the same reason. But isn't limited to any single group exclusively. We have quite a few illegal Asians... and Indians as well as Russians etc. Just Latinos make up the major portion here. And Democrats feel the Latinos should have specoial status above any and every other ethnic group that wishes to come here.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Funny that nobody else thinks they should be exempt from an ID check when stopped by Police... or that checks for outstanding Warrants are run... But Latinos are special... they should never be stopped, never be asked for ID... never have checks run on them... JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE LATINO. Its only OK to pick on the rest of us for all of that.
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