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Was your "marriage " then sanctioned in a church ;or was it a civil ceremony ?Quote:
If it is about morals and religion why am I allowed to get married? My wife and I are both flaming atheists.
In fact we purposely scrubbed the word god out of all of our marriage vows.
Civil ceremony of course. Although I believe the woman that married us was a minister of some church or other. We were required to have someone that was legally able to sign the license and most of the time that means a minister of some sort they seem to be the only ones that go through the paper work to do that here in VA.
Are you saying that I am defective because I am infertile? Seriously?Quote:
Originally Posted by passmeby
I'm not a lesbian, but I AM infertile----and that attitude is EXACTLY why infertile couples don't usually advertise WHY they don't have kids.
And by that token---are those couples that CHOOSE not to have children useless because they don't reproduce? Are they EVIL because they choose not to add to the growing population problem in the world?
Honestly, I think there are more Christian ideas that are "defective" than non-christian ideas. And again---anyone arguing that God says that marriage is a man and woman becoming one--and thank you for the quote--should NEVER get divorced, nor believe in divorce, because you're cleaving apart what GOD made to be put together.
If you're protesting gay marriages, you should ALSO be protesting divorced people being able to remarry in the church, because by the church's definition, they CAN'T divorce---GOD made them one, and only GOD can part them.
Hello pass:Quote:
Originally Posted by passmeby
I'm NOT the nasty one here. I have over 9,000 posts. I've been here for LOTS of years. These people are my friends. I don't attack people. I don't insult them.
What I have is opinions. I speak them loudly and vociferously WITHOUT insulting anyone. Too bad you can't live up to the standards of an exconvict. You're the nasty one, in fact.
I will answer your question, however, your insult notwithstanding.
I understand, that you cannot understand a citizen who wants to share the freedoms and bounties that our country promises, simply because the country promises it, and nothing more. You think there has to be something in for me, I suppose, because you're not able to see beyond your own selfish wants.
I understand your kind. I really do.
excon
The state then has no business bringing up issues of ' God 'in the ceremony then. My position is that the word marriage should only apply to the religious sacrament . Civil union then applied equally would satisfy all concerned unless the agenda was different then equal rights under the law.Quote:
Civil ceremony of course
Churches and people can interpret the bible any way they want but it doesn't make it the right interpretation. And on this subject there is no doubt what the correct interpretation is, there is nothing, nada, zilch, zero in the bible that can truthfully be interpreted to sanction gay marriage.Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasParent
I believe God meant for sex to be MORE than just to reproduce.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Synn, I do believe that divorce is wrong other than the reasons that God gives in His word. So, I wouldn't get a divorce just because I fell out of love, or couldn't get along or whatever. However there ARE biblical reasons for a divorce but that is for another thread.
I am not protesting Gay marriages. I just wouldn't vote for it.
I'm glad you found a flaming atheists. Being married to someone like myself could be hazzardous to your health.. lol. I don't care if your marriage does more to frown on my beliefs... good for you. Sounds more like you hate god than you don't believe in him but that is my take...Quote:
Originally Posted by michealb
Your last comment is just silly.
Hello again, T:Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
I'm a flaming atheist. You'd LOVE being married to me. We'd have a GOOD time.;)
Exy
I don't dislike god he doesn't exist. It would be the same as saying you hate Santa Clause. You can't hate him cause he doesn't exist. You can how ever say you disapprove if someone used the legend of Santa Clause to use children as slave labor. You still wouldn't believe in Santa Clause or hate him. You would hate how people use the idea of him to get what they want. Same thing with me and god just replace Santa Clause with god.
And as far as my last comment being silly. History is full of groups that use wedges to get what they want.
Haven't you ever heard of the poem by Martin Niemöller.
"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."
It is up to all of us to defend equal rights for everyone regardless of how we feel about how they exorcise those rights because if any of us are not equal then none of us are free.
EX,Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Ever seen the show "Snapped"... well there would be my mug shot and all that would be left of you is a white chalk outline... lol lol. I crack me up.:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by passmeby
Because they hate GOD and anything he stands for. Gen. 3:15
They are trying to tear down Christiandom. That's all it is. Watch, this will really piss the canaanites off! The real truth always does.
So because myself along with others can't produce children naturally because they are infertile... we are defective... we are "useless".Quote:
Originally Posted by passmeby
You're stepping on all the wrong toes for all the wrong reasons.
Yet another post to back up my comment to your first one. You continue to show how immature, and ignorant you are on the subject at hand... while pulling out statements you try to pass as factual information when in fact they have zero credibility. You can't seem to back up anything you have to say with logical arguments. Instead you call people useless, defective, and personally insult people.
Maybe you wouldn't feel excon is "nasty" if you actually had anything remotely intelligent to say.
Hello mag:
I don't know if I'm one of those canaanites you speak of. I don't even know what they are. I surely don't know what Christiandom is. Course, I recognize that I'm dealing with an anti semite religious fanatic here, so I'll take that into consideration...
However, I celebrate Christianity. I'm thrilled that I live in a country that has, as one of its FIRST tenets, the freedom of religion. Of course, MY understanding of what that means, is obviously different than YOUR understanding of what it means.
To me, and to anybody who can actually read, it says that you are free to practice YOUR religion. It doesn't say that I have to practice it along with you. As a matter of fact, it says that I DON'T! You think it does.
I don't know WHY you would think so. I guess it's possible that you believe that the United States of America is a Christian nation, so it should follow the Bible instead of the Constitution... Hmmm. I know of some real bad guys who think their Bible should be forced upon you too. But, I digress...
I don't know where it says any of that in our founding documents... But, you don't care much for what the actual law IS... You just want it to be your way, and you snivel when it isn't. Poor pitiful man.
excon
PS> (edited) In case anybody is confused, NOW, I'm being nasty!
You can't hate something you don't believe exists. That doesn't make sense. But then again its not unusual for me to not make sense of Christianity.Quote:
Originally Posted by magprob
Synn brings up a great point about divorce. No one seems to rant and rave about divorced couples remarrying in church. But then again divorced people are like you, whereas gay people are different aren't they?
Michaelb- that quote made me a little teary, I must admit- thank you for that.
As I think many know, I am of course a proponent of gay marriage- I believe that my partner and I deserve the same legal protections as any other loving couple. We are not "defective" because we do not spawn more children in an already overpopulated world- we plan on adopting, and giving a home to a child who needs one- if that makes us "useless", then I don't quite understand what you would deem useful. Our world is much more complex than it was years ago- there are more ways to be an asset to your society than reproducing.
While the idea of separating "civil marriage" and "religious marriage" seems to be ideal, I highly doubt it will ever happen. If you're married by the state and call it a "civil union" and then married by a religion and call it "marriage"... well, there are a number of problems with that.
First, it seems from conversations I've had with friends and coworkers that many straight couples who are married by a justice of the peace through a civil ceremony would be at least a bit annoyed to be told that they were no longer "married"- true, it's just a word, but it's a word that has developed meaning to people in our society, both religious and non-religious. It has a connotation of being joined together in a special way to someone you love deeply- and straight people would likely fight to keep that word in the same way that we are fighting to be included in it. Marriage didn't always have this connotation- think back to arranged marriages, for example... love had nothing to do with it. Neither did reproduction for any noble or holy reason- it was about power, wealth, the joining of families for political reasons... but marriage changed and evolved over time as society changed and evolved- this is just the next logical step.
Now, aside from straight people not wanting to go from "married" to "civily unioned"... there would still be nothing to prevent gay people from getting "married". As someone in this thread previously mentioned, there are religions which have no qualms over recognizing a gay couple as married- so it would happen anyway.
It's the natural progression of things. Civil marriage is the business of the state, which has the obligation to equally protect it's citizens. Religious marriage is at the discretion of the religion. So even if we go the route of separating EVERYONE married by the state from those married by a religious official and call them different things at that level... gay people will still be able to get "married" in their own churches should they choose to do so.
I included a comparison to condemnations of interracial marriages on another post in the Issues section on Prop 8--- if you're interested, feel free to go check it out. Don't have the time to get into it here.
You would kill him? Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Don't worry Skell, even us Christians can't make sense of Christianity sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
You mean this?Quote:
Synn brings up a great point about divorce. No one seems to rant and rave about divorced couples remarrying in church. But then again divorced people are like you, whereas gay people are different aren't they?
There have been provisions for divorce from Deuteronomy on, but it was God's design for marriage to be forever. But I don't believe the bible says man can't undo the union, it says don't let man separate what God has joined together... that wasn't the plan. But to think we should protest remarrying in the church is to ask us to set aside our views on grace and forgiveness. We may find divorce a tragedy but it doesn't mean people don't deserve another chance at happiness... which of course leads to the question why don't we want gays to have that same happiness and starts this circle all over again.Quote:
If you're protesting gay marriages, you should ALSO be protesting divorced people being able to remarry in the church, because by the church's definition, they CAN'T divorce---GOD made them one, and only GOD can part them.
Michaleb,Quote:
Originally Posted by michealb
I guess then you would defend one of those creepy men in a mormon cult that have 15 wives and some of them pretty darn young. So they should be free to legally marry as many woman as they like? They have their rights too??
NK,Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I was joking on account of him being a "flaming atheist" and me being a Christian.ok OK.. it was a BAD joke... I just liked the white chalk out line thing.. lol anyway don't think I offended him. And before you reprimand me with the THOU SHALT NOT KILL... remember... Christians can make a funny too.
Well that is EASY.. because we are intolerant. Speech don't you know that by now?. all Christians are intolerant, small minded, evil beings. AND we have no sense of humor either. I don't even know why we are here.. why ARE we here. Maybe I will start that thread. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Omg lol ? Lol!
Actually--doesn't the Bible make provision for polygamy?
I mean, if Jacob could have 2 wives, why can't Steve have one husband?
I don't have a problem, by the way, with people who want to have multiple wives/husbands----as long as the rules are the same as any other marriage: CONSENTING and ADULTS being the main two rules.
Of course I know that by now, I've been reminded soooo many times. At least we're not as angry as liberals :DQuote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Liberals aren't christians?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Hello NK:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Not REAL Christians.
excon
That's not for me to say. I just said liberals, Christian, atheist, agnostic whatever. They do seem to be an awfully angry bunch but perhaps the combination of Bush leaving and The One taking over can heal them of their anger. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I love it; Adam, Eve and Jane? Speaking of things in and not in the bible; just exactly where did Cain and Abel get their wives? Sisters? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
It's the only thing that makes sense and you got to start somewhere ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasParent
Haven't you noticed that it isn't the liberals starting the angry threads here?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Yes speech, haven't you noticed?. geesh I got to teach you everything!. the LIBERALS are kind, understanding, sensitive, caring, loving and just plain adorable.. I mean you want to just reach out and squeeze their little cheeks. Their topics are just informative... they are NEVER angry and this is a big one... THEY ARE ALWAYS politically correct.. well dog on it.. lets' just call a spade a spade.. they are always CORRECT... period. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
You're a weird one indeed.
NK,
It is called SARCASM!
Speech, we may be ONE up on them... they appear not to be too bright.
Sorry ex... I am off the topic.
UGH... you didn't answer for me. I just read this fyi... homosexual activity is a sin... not because I said so but because GOD did. What you don't understand ex.. is that ALL of us NOT just Gay people are NOT worthy of anything and we are ALL born damned to hell.I didn't say that... GOD did. So do me a great big favor and quit acting like Christians somehow THINK we are better because we are NOT. You do NOT understand Christians... you THINK you do but you don't. Don't answer for me and I won't answer for YOU.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
If all of the wives are over 18 and consent to the marriage, sure, why not?
Huh. So gays are all sterile? I just learn sumpthin' new e'ryday...Quote:
Originally Posted by passmeby
Lol about all of us homos bein' sterile...
That really made me laugh out loud.
Thank you.
:)
I just don't understand how people can be so cruel. Take away the religion and politics…what you have left are people…living, breathing people. Who cares if they are gay, straight, etc. People don't wake up one day and decide “hum, I think I'm going to be gay!” They are born this way. Therefore, their rights should not be denied. If a gay couple wants to take their relationship to the next level and get hitched, they should be able to. If they want to start a family, they should have that freedom. Let's get out of the Stone Age people. If God's so good then why can't he love everybody despite their differences? Yes, gay is a difference, not a flaw, not a sin.
Huh. So gays are all sterile? I just learn sumpthin' new e'ryday... [/QUOTE]
OK, where did I say all gays are sterile? I guess I have to put this into simpler terms for those who don't get it. OK... a gay person is attracted to another person of the same sex. Two people of the same sex can't conceive a child together. Clear? Every living things purpose is to reproduce, name one living thing that doesn't (besides gays and people with fertility issues). Therefore I believe being gay is a flaw as it interferes with the proliferation of our species.
wow! You started a big discussion!
I just wanted to put my two cents in that I don't think there is anything wrong with two gays getting married. I can see where the church would not want to be a part of it... however the church marries alcoholics, pedophiles, and adulterers... so I think the church should allow gay marriage and love them the say way they love the drug abusers and murderers. Homosexuality is a sin... that can't be contested in a christian setting but we all sin and no one sin is worse then another. Just so everyone knows... I am very happy in a heterosexual marriage. I think that being gay is a sin and is wrong but I also think it is wrong to compulsively work and make work your idol... or to do drugs, drink, cheat, lie, steal, kill, etc!
If the time ever comes for a vote on gay marriage in my area I will definitely vote to legalize it... my religious views should not be imposed on anyone... that is why we live in America!! And that is why my husband fights 6000 miles away from me for years to ensure that we all have the freedom to practice whatever religion or even bad mouth the people fighting for us... I agree with the people who said that marriage should be a state thing in the sense of legal marriage and if you want a godly union then you can do that separately through your church or temple or synagoge or where ever you worship. I feel like someone is going to challenge me on this but I can take it! Im opinionated but respectful.
kraussnumber2
Thank you and your husband for you do for the country. I have been the one advocating the complete separation of the civil laws and religious ceremony. I think it would be the solution for the issue respecting magog85's well stated counterpost. I'll agree to disagree on the specifics.
My own view is that this will not get settled on a state by state basis. As I pointed out to Excon his objection of the separate but equal 14th amendment Brown v Board of Ed decision historically only applies when it is proven that separate but equal cannot be achieved. Also in play as everyone is mentioning is the 1st amendment " separations ".
But the biggest reason this will have to be settled federally is because of the 'full faith and credit " clause in the constitution[Article IV, Section 1] that says states have to respect the "public acts, records, and judicial rulings" of other states.As Justice Scalia argued in his dissent of Lawrence V Texas once one state permitted 'gay marriage' the "full faith and credit "clause arguably mandates that all states recognize the contract. NYState has taken that interpretation . We do not have gay marriages but the Governor recognizes ones that were performed out of state.
So because of issues of the full faith and credit clause,the 1st and 14th amendments ; the question of gay marriage will need to be settled nationally ;either by SCOTUS decision or constitutional amendment.
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