Ask Me Help Desk - Georgia, and not the Peach State!

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1]? Why did Georgia just not let these regions stay with Russia?

2]? Why is Russia using this as an excuse to invade Georgia, not just aid Ossetia?

3]? Why does Russia has a problem with USA being friendly, diplomatic ;) , with Ukraine and Georgia, while Russia is "friendly" with Cuba and Venuezuela?

4]? How much of this is about OIL ?

1. and 2.territiorial integrity... why did the Ruskies give the Russian speaking Georgians Russian passports ? This is Sudetenland all over again.

2.and 4. This is all about the Baku pipelines. The Ruskies want to control EU energy access.

3. The Ruskies have used a lot of nonsensical moral equivalent arguments in ths conflict and sadly many in the West has echoed it.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So who are the righties popular with outside the USA?

See, that's why you folks don't get it.

The "righties" are not concerned with who they are popular with outside the USA, they are more concerned with keeping this the land of the free and home of the brave, and with not allowing the socialists to convert our great nation to the failed policies of redistribution of wealth and the condemning of a capitalist form of government, like the Europeans.

The right stands by it's beliefs, regardless of "public opinion overseas", because our country was founded on freedom, not on a marxist agenda, that puts the government in control of every aspect of our lives.

I love it! McCain for once, tried to distant himself from Bush and ended up looking like the war tyrant for his effort. Meanwhile Bush and Obama went the diplomacy route and French President Nicolas Sarkozy negotiated a ceasefire. ;)

So why are you fighting wars and building multimillion dollar embassies in foreign countries? Why does so much money flow to Israel and Saudi Arabia when New Orleans is still a mess, your educational system is broken, health care is a major issue, there is nothing that replaced the twin towers, etc?

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Originally Posted by progunr

The right stands by it's beliefs, regardless of "public opinion overseas", because our country was founded on freedom, not on a marxist agenda, that puts the government in control of every aspect of our lives.

What textbook taught you that propaganda? Founded on freedom? For who? Slaves? Native Indians? Mexico that once ruled over their northern territory? Voting that was nonexistent for women?

Bush went the tough talk route followed up by a Trumanesque Berlin style air lift.

"Mr. Bush also announced that a massive U.S. humanitarian effort was already in progress, and would involve U.S. aircraft as well as naval forces. A U.S. C-17 military cargo plane loaded with supplies is already on the way, and Mr. Bush said that Russia must ensure that "all lines of communication and transport, including seaports, roads and airports," remain open to let deliveries and civilians through."
Bush Says Rice to Go to Tbilisi To Work on Diplomatic Solutions - WSJ.com

Give Obama a couple of weeks ;he would've figured it out .

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

What textbook taught you that propaganda? Founded on freedom? For who? Slaves?! Native Indians?! Mexico that once ruled over their northern territory?! Voting that was nonexistent for women?!

Talk about getting off subject?

What do any of those comments have to do with the difference between capitalism and socialism, or with caring what the Europeans, or anyone else for that matter, thinks about the United States?

America did not invent slavery, they may have participated in the disgraceful practice, but then, so did the very country that sold them into slavery to begin with. Attitudes were much different then.

Sure, the Europeans that escaped the redistribution of wealth there, that came here to start a new Nation, had to defeat the Native Americans in order to do so. Men have been taking over territories and nations from others since the beginning of human existence. It was certainly not invented, by the brave men who established this free Nation.

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

I love it! McCain for once, tried to distant himself from Bush and ended up looking like the war tyrant for his effort. Meanwhile Bush and Obama went the diplomacy route and French President Nicolas Sarkozy negotiated a ceasefire. ;)

Obama hasn't exactly hit any home runs during his "first real time foreign policy crisis."

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Meanwhile, on the political side, the Obama team picked a fight, attacking McCain senior foreign-policy adviser Randy Scheunemann because he represented Georgia in Washington. But that gave McCain's side a chance to say what, exactly, is wrong with helping a fledgling democracy?

Sarkozy got two RBIs yesterday when he drove in Obama and Dubya. Meanwhile Republican Lynn Sweet was writing for the back pages of poor sports section when McCain stuck out again. Scheunemann tactical campiagn error should get him demoted to bat boy. With advisers like that, McCain's going to be a free agent after November. I love it! :)

Perhaps the EU got lucky that Sarkosy is in the rotation as EU President . France is pretty much energy self sufficient so he won't be held hostage by Ivan . Obama has been at best yelling platitudes while warming the bench .Perhaps it is useful instruction on how to be Presidential watching President Bush lead on this issue.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Perhaps it is useful instruction on how to be Presidential watching President Bush lead on this issue.

You mean by watching the arses of girls 1/3 his age?

I love it! Tom's got one huge McCain campaign catastrophe on his hands. He can't knock Obama without knocking the guy he voted for twice, Dubya! I didn't think it was possible that an American candidate could put more effort into nurturing wars than Bush, but McCain has proved the impossible this week. Yup! He finally managed to find one issue to separate himself from Dubya. Way to go "old white haired dude"... if it takes a hundred years. :eek: :D

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

... Why does so much money flow to Israel and Saudi Arabia when New Orleans is still a mess, your educational system is broken, health care is a major issue, etc?

You can remove education and health care from your list of complaints; there is too much government money and control going into them now.

BTW I think New Orleans is now the fastest growing city in the US by percentages. Mainly due to people moving back since reconstruction after the Katrina disaster. Personally once would be enough for me, if I had been a previous resident of Orleans. I heard from a construction company owner recently that is based out of Midland Odessa (Texas) and he said the quality of housing being thrown together there is cheap. As interesting and unique as the culture is in N.O. jazz music and French cuisine, I would pass on the location. My mother is retired school teacher and has an expensive poodle of show dog pedigree that she takes with her as she travels once a year to attend a French festival in California. I've been through Vancouver (Canada), but would like to visit Montreal, Quebec.

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

... but would like to visit Montreal, Quebec.

I can show you around. :)

Probably a few years away with my schedule. I've got to head back to SE Asia, check on my second home and attend a wedding, in 2009. I've got that on my radar first then I'm thinking of buying another house in the US (I sold mine years ago), when this slow market finally bottoms out. If I can ever make it out your way I'll email you in advance. Thanks for the invite. I'd love that!

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Tom's got one huge McCain campaign catastrophe on his hands

Keep thinking that . This crisis plays right into McCain's strength and exposes Obama for being the indecisive waffler he is.

A foggy reality is slowly sinking in on Tom's ship. McCain got torpedoed by Bush (of all people), Obama, and ninety percent of the civilized international community. The "old white haired dude" was primed with a one finger on the red button for the next hundred years of war. This is the kind of exposure John McCain deserves for believing his neanderthal foreign advisor. How fitting! Bwa ha ha ha!

The truth is that the last 3 Presidents since the fall of the Soviet Union had this quaint notion that Russia could be seduced into joining the civilized nations .

McCain understands this as wishful thinking .He said when he looked in Putin's eyes he saw KGB. He was correct long before the events of last week.

The Ruskie tanks rolling has forced President Bush to reassess his noble efforts to find common ground with the thugs in Moscow. But for now President Bush is trying to salvage what remains of the US Russian potamkin relationship .That is why Condi Rice ;a long time Russophile was sent on her diplomatic junket.

But the truth is that as the Ruskies have spit on the world wide effort to appease them ,Bush's rhetoric is falling more in line with reality .Too bad Sec. Def. Gates is still using appeaser language.

America will have a real choice ;McCain with his finger on the pulse of reality ;or BO with his pie-in-the-sky flowery kumbaya speeches. The only hope for BO is that he has Zbigniew Brzezinski on his advisery staff

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Originally Posted by tomder55

America will have a real choice ;McCain with his finger on the pulse of reality ;or BO with his pie-in-the-sky flowery kumbaya speeches.

Thank you Fox News! http://i.pbase.com/u2/gube2/upload/1...laughlaugh.gif

I guess London Telegraph is a FOX affiliate .

Crisis in Georgia highlights John McCain's strengths - Telegraph

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Originally Posted by tomder55

But the truth is that as the Ruskies have spit on the world wide effort to appease them ,Bush's rhetoric is falling more in line with reality .Too bad Sec. Def. Gates is still using appeaser language.

I watched Gates on a C-Span replay of the news briefing from the Pentagon, 08/14/2008. His language was near perfect, not what we want to hear, of course; but he said responsibility lies with the president up to this point. Am I correct in saying that the Russians are forty (40) miles outside Tbilisi? "There were also conflicting reports that Russian troops had overrun the city of Gori while Georgian forces were concentrating on holding Mtskheta, 15 miles from the capital." Georgia 'overrun' by Russian troops as full-scale ground invasion begins | Mail Online
The point Gates made that impressed me is that there are many conflicting reports. He said there is an assessment team on the ground, arriving in the third flight into the capitol. As we are aware having witnessed two invasions in Iraq and one in Afghanistan, it takes time to put an army on the ground; and ours is not there. The bigger issue, pointed out by Gates' remarks, is what happens next? What happens if the Russians occupy the capitol?

But Gates did not leave the question open . He said :

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"I don't see any prospect for the use of military force by the United States in this situation,"

That was an important signal... a mistake Ronnie Reagan would never make.

Secretary Gates said, as I recall, "The United States spent 45 years working very hard to avoid a military confrontation with Russia," said Gates. "I see no reason to change that approach today." The Associated Press: Gates warns Russia to pull back in Georgia fight That was on 08/14/2008. He didn't say what approach the US should take on 08/15/2008, or thereafter. It is not his position to state publicly what the US will do, anyway.
John Bolton writes: "...the United States needs some straight talk with our friends in Europe... However, Russia did not invade Georgia with diplomats or roubles, but with tanks. This is a security threat, and the proper forum for discussing security threats on the border of a Nato member – yes, Europe, this means Turkey – is Nato."
John Bolton: After Russia's invasion of Georgia, what now for the West? - Telegraph

Hello:

Here it is, four days later... The true impact of the event is just NOW sinking in. Both candidates have come to similar positions. Among the three, the only wuss is the dufus in chief who is going on vacation??

What should we DO now, instead of go shopping? Pappa Bush surly didn't like sovereign nations being invaded. He went in and threw the invaders out. Sonny boy looks at butts and goes on vacation. What happened to his balls?

If you're not worried, you should be.

excon

I agree with Bolton and am a fan of Sec Gates (especially during his CIA years ) .But unfortunately I do not feel NATO is up to the task... And if it is ;only because ,as is always the case; because the US leads.

Even in the Clintoon days the US had to provide the bulk of the muscle to any NATO initiative . On their own the Europeans watched helpless as genocide was occurring in their own backyard in the Balkans.

The diplomatic efforts in my opinion reek of Munich 1938 ;and the comparison is fitting in many other ways . It was the concern of the plight of ethnic Germans that was the justification for the occupation of the Sudetenland and the subsequent invasion of Czechoslovakia. Poland was next . Is Ukraine the next Poland ?

No wonder the Poles were so quick to embrace the US Missile shield yesterday . They know that they cannot count on the EU for their security.

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Originally Posted by excon

What should we DO now, instead of go shopping? Pappa Bush surly didn't like sovereign nations being invaded. He went in and threw the invaders out. Sonny boy looks at butts and goes on vacation. What happened to his balls?

If you're not worried, you should be.

excon

Papa Bush took six months to place an invading army in place. What do you recommend? By the way, you buying gold while it's on sale?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I agree with Bolton and am a fan of Sec Gates (especially during his CIA years ) .But unfortunately I do not feel NATO is up to the task....And if it is ;only because ,as is always the case; because the US leads.

This is not a neighborhood fire and requires a very long hose. Do you think the president can send Putin an ultimatum? What would it say? I believe that is why Secretary Gates is saying, at this point, it will take years for the Russian government to undo the damage; but that if further damage is carried out, we are considering our options.

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Originally Posted by George_1950

Papa Bush took six months to place an invading army in place. What do you recommend? By the way, you buying gold while it's on sale?

Hello again, George:

To me, it seems that Russia is intent on flexing it's cold war muscles again. Instead of sending food and clothing, which we would have done if a hurricane had hit, we should have sent in the 82nd Airborne.

I don't know. I thought you righty's were tough.

Yes, I'm buying. It's cheap.

excon

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By the way, you buying gold while it's on sale?

I think the gold bubble burst

Also as I recall it was Maggie Thatcher who got Bush sr. to get the ball rolling in 1990.

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Originally Posted by excon

Both candidates have come to similar positions. Among the three, the only wuss is the dufus in chief who is going on vacation?????

If you're not worried, you should be.

excon

Oh yeah, I'm worried, but have to disagree about your "wuss" statement.

I think that when Obama, made the statement that the United Nations should take care of this "situation" not only proves his "wuss" status, but also highlights his true lack of knowledge and experience.

Already addressed in a previous post, but have to reiterate, shouldn't a potential future President of the US know that Russia has veto power over anything the UN would come up with.

Totally ridiculous, and I have to say, ignorant.

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Originally Posted by excon

I dunno. I thought you righty's were tough.

excon

You, Obama, and the rest of the peaceniks have been complaining for years about cowboy diplomacy; why not make up your minds? Besides, since when have you advocated the U.S. occupying the world?

George ;I addressed what I thought we should do comment #17 here :

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There is a certain logic that we will not commit to an armed conflict with them over Gerogia ;but they are close to stepping into a hornets nest there.

This very well could be their "Iraq". Note that the Georgian Army fell back instead of drawing a line and standing to fight. The Ruskies are walking into territory where the population has a vivid memory of the last time the Ruskies occupied them. The Georgian Army looks to me to be falling back intact to a defensive position in the Lesser Caucasus Mts. If the Ruskies bog down then expect an Iraqi style insurgency .

Notable is the fact that there are many US advisors on the ground with presumably plenty of experience in that type of combat . IEDs anyone ? Night raids on isolated Ruskie units ? They will rue the day they crossed through Roki Tunnel .If push comes to shove a strategically placed bomb could cut off the Ruskie land route supplyline . Then a couple of strategically placed mines in the Black Sea could really give them problems. Expect the US to transfer SAM and anti-tank capability to the Georgians.

Talking about history ;check out the fierceness of the Georgian fighter throughout history ;especially the Hulagu Khan's army . Let the Ruskies bleed for a while.

My guess is that when a final settlement is made that South Ossetia will be permitted to become semi-autonomous .The Ruskie KGB kleptocrats who keep summer homes there will be able to hide the rubles they skim from the oil revenue and will be happy.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...-247746-2.html

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Originally Posted by progunr

Totally ridiculous, and I have to say, ignorant.

Whoa, there; you calling a liberal, 'ignorant'? You must be, not only a racist, but a bigoted racist at that. Remember, he is 'the one we've been waiting on'.

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Originally Posted by George_1950

You, Obama, and the rest of the peaceniks have been complaining for years about cowboy diplomacy; why not make up your minds? Besides, since when have you advocated the U.S. occupying the world?

Since I was 4.

By the way, George, a peacenik, I'm not. You happened on the scene here somewhat late. In fact, I'm hawkier than the hawks here are in terms of the war on terror. I just happen to recognize that Iraq ISN'T part of it. It's all here for you to peruse.

excon

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I agree with Bolton and am a fan of Sec Gates (especially during his CIA years ) .But unfortunately I do not feel NATO is up to the task... And if it is ;only because ,as is always the case; because the US leads.

Even in the Clintoon days the US had to provide the bulk of the muscle to any NATO initiative . On their own the Europeans watched helpless as genocide was occurring in their own backyard in the Balkans.

The diplomatic efforts in my opinion reek of Munich 1938 ;and the comparison is fitting in many other ways . It was the concern of the plight of ethnic Germans that was the justification for the occupation of the Sudetenland and the subsequent invasion of Czechoslovakia. Poland was next . Is Ukraine the next Poland ?

No wonder the Poles were so quick to embrace the US Missile shield yesterday . They know that they cannot count on the EU for their security.

Interesting comments by the Polish PM on this:

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Polish officials said the agreement would strengthen the mutual commitment of the United States to defend Poland, and vice versa. “Poland and the Poles do not want to be in alliances in which assistance comes at some point later — it is no good when assistance comes to dead people,” the Polish prime minister, Donald Tusk, said on Polish television. “Poland wants to be in alliances where assistance comes in the very first hours of — knock on wood — any possible conflict.”

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Originally Posted by George_1950

Whoa, there; you calling a liberal, 'ignorant'? You must be, not only a racist, but a bigoted racist at that. Remember, he is 'the one we've been waiting on'.

Oh my God, you're right, how shameful of me!

We both better take our tongues out of our cheeks, or no one will be able
To understand what we're saying.

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Originally Posted by excon

Since I was 4.

By the way, George, a peacenik, I'm not...In fact, I'm hawkier than the hawks here are in terms of the war on terror....

excon

Well, a liberal hawk, and, meaning no disrespect, an old, liberal hawk at that cause there are none left on the national scene, anyway. The vast majority of liberals couldn't care less about property rights. If one doesn't care about property rights, why care about the invasion of Georgia? Humanitarianism? What is that? Other than liberal double-speak about caring about someone's conditions without addressing the cause of the conditions.

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Originally Posted by George_1950

Well, a liberal hawk, and, meaning no disrespect, an old, liberal hawk at that cause there are none left on the national scene, anyway. The vast majority of liberals couldn't care less about property rights. If one doesn't care about property rights, why care about the invasion of Georgia? Humanitarianism? What is that? Other than liberal double-speak about caring about someone's conditions without addressing the cause of the conditions.

Oh NO!

You have ignited another bonfire in my long list of problems with the direction this Nation is headed.

Eminent Domain. What Bull Crap.

If there is anything that the American public should be up in arms about, it is the growing practice of taking private property away from it's owner, simply because the government says so!

URGGGGG! I don't even want to get started on this one today!

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

I'm speaking of the satellite state, now country, of the former USSR, that's struggling toward a faint resemblance of democracy, but just had it's doors kicked in by Russia.

So how did all this get started? According to Buchanan, "Mikheil Saakashvili's decision to use the opening of the Olympic Games to cover Georgia's invasion of its breakaway province of South Ossetia must rank in stupidity with Gamal Abdel-Nasser's decision to close the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships.

"After shelling and attacking what he claims is his own country, killing scores of his own Ossetian citizens and sending tens of thousands fleeing into Russia, Saakashvili's army was whipped back into Georgia in 48 hours." Blowback From Bear-Baiting - HUMAN EVENTS