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Originally Posted by talaniman

Do you have something else besides whats been run over and over? If you do bring it for all to see.

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Assuming you are addressing me, this Controversy is far from over. Actually, it's just beginning but with more steam! One place to go to read about it right now, besides so many others, is at:

ABC News: Online news, breaking news, feature stories and more

So, as long as this controversy continues, I will keep on addressing it as more and more *New Visitors* to this site need to be informed about this important matter even if you personally are not interested in hearing any more dirt surface about your candidate.

You're boring us skygem!

Just to be clear, whoever is president, will give me nothing, and my life has never been based on who the prez is. If you have read any of my posts you'd know that I like all the candidates, for one reason, or another and having seen a few campaigns, this is the cleanest, but we will all see how they do under adversity, so worry about bringing the word to those who can't get it, as I am already far ahead, and realise how closed minded your post are, so fair warning, bring facts and we can debate. But don't assume I'm impressed okay. So in that spirit, I get Obama is not your man, so who is so we can balance this mudslinging and be fair.

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Originally Posted by SkyGem

I am keeping up. This matter will simply NOT go away, it can't. It's simply too important for the American people to know and understand about Obama.

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Have you ever attended a black church and listened to a sermon? In fact, have you attended more than once and listened to more than one black minister? No? Do you know anything about black churches and what goes on there on Sunday morning and during the week? No? Perhaps you'd better find out before you sling mud.

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Have you ever attended a black church and listened to a sermon? In fact, have you attended more than once and listened to more than one black minister? No? Do you know anything about black churches and what goes on there on Sunday morning and during the week? No? Perhaps you'd better find out before you sling mud.

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That is an irrelevant point. Provide the video of the whole speech and I'll be glad to see if Rev Wright's comments are taken in content or not. The same people who claim that his comments are taken out of content are the same ones who ad nausium repeat over and over that McCain plans to stay in Iraq 100 years ;comments of his that are demonstably taken out of content.

I am always suspicious of little snipets of video, as they can be made to show anything, and since there is only one, where is the pattern that spans 20 years? Who sent it to the media, and why didn't the major news networks carry his entire response? There are many unanswered questions to be answered in my view, not just whether this reverend is a hate monger or not. American politics, you got to love it.

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I am always suspicious of little snipets of video, as they can be made to show anything, and since there is only one, where is the pattern that spans 20 years? Who sent it to the media, and why didn't the major news networks carry his entire response? There are many unanswered questions to be answered in my view, not just whether this reverend is a hate monger or not. American politics, you got to love it.

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There are more than one ;but I agree it does not show the entire sermon .As I mentioned ;I am more than willing to view them in their entirety

I do not think it relevant who released them except to say that the content of them were widely known ;that the Chicago Press and the national press suppressed the information as long as they could and that it indeed affected the outcome of the primary race to this point by not being forthright.

Yes I have MANY unanswered questions about Obama . It doesn't help that we are told to ignore the man behind the curtain.

As for American politics ? Thus it ever was . Partisan Presidential politics became our reality in 1796 and has not changed much since .

There is a rebroadcast of something by Wright this evening at 6:00 PM CST via the church's website. I plan on giving it a look. The story is the videos were purchased by Fox News directly from the church's online bookstore. There you have it, one more reason to bash FNC.

Steve did you hear the rants of Hillary supporter The Rev James Manning ? He trashes Obama in the most vile manner .I wonder if they can be excused due to the unique historical character of the black Church also ?

Basically he calls Obama a pimp . Gee... now that I think about it ;I wonder if the Clinton's will have rightgous anger over Obama being called a pimp ?

Yay for Bobby!! The OT book of Amos leads the way for white evangelical Christians.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Steve did you hear the rants of Hillary supporter The Rev James Manning ? He trashes Obama in the most vile manner .I wonder if they can be excused due to the unique historical character of the black Church also ?

Basically he calls Obama a pimp . Gee..... now that I think about it ;I wonder if the Clinton's will have rightgous anger over Obama being called a pimp ?

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Yeah, I heard that yesterday. I also heard something from an Illinois state senator this morning. I say if one should be excused "due to the unique historical character of the black Church" they all should. Or, in what could be a good thing that comes out of this, people say enough regardless of who this nonsense comes from.

What I got from Obama was his defense by making excuses for “Black Liberation Theology;” that there is a conspiracy of racism in America today and that legalized discrimination still exists today.

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What I got from Obama was his defense by making excuses for “Black Liberation Theology;” that there is a conspiracy of racism in America today and that legalized discrimination still exists today.

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And the only cure is liberal paternalism.

Did you catch Obama's interview with Anderson Cooper yesterday?

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COOPER: Played endlessly for much of the past week, today, Senator Obama continued to distance himself from his former pastor's angry rhetoric, and tried to gauge how his speech yesterday on race was playing on the campaign trail.

(on camera): How badly do you think this has damaged you? How much has it hurt? National Review Online says, bottom line, will the speech help you win white working-class voters?

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, you know, one of the things I said early on in this campaign was, if I was just running the textbook campaign, doing the conventional thing, I probably wasn't going to win, because Senator Clinton was going to be much more capable of doing that than I would be.

We had tremendous success, and I think we were starting to get a little comfortable and conventional right before Texas and Ohio. And, you know, in some ways, this controversy has actually shaken me up a little bit and gotten me back into remembering that, you know, the odds of me getting elected have always been lower than some of the other conventional candidates.

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I have my own ideas on this but what is everyone else's take?

Sounds like racial-identity politics to me. Strange coming from a person who claims to have transcended that sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Sounds like racial-identity politics to me. Strange coming from a person who claims to have transcended that sort of thing.

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Even stranger coming from Caucasian Republicans that have never stepped foot into a African-American church before.

Wondergirl says (to SkyGem):
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Have you ever attended a black church and listened to a sermon? In fact, have you attended more than once and listened to more than one black minister? No? Do you know anything about black churches and what goes on there on Sunday morning and during the week? No? Perhaps you'd better find out before you sling mud.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

That is an irrelevent point. Provide the video of the whole speech and I'll be glad to see if Rev Wright's comments are taken in content or not. The same people who claim that his comments are taken out of content are the same ones who ad nausium repeat over and over that McCain plans to stay in Iraq 100 years ;comments of his that are demonstably taken out of content.

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Besides that, what Patriotic American wants to go to a church, no matter what it predominant race, and listen to sermons that damn America, our beloved country! Speeches that border on sedition are not my cup of tea, folks. Too bad it appears to be the name brand of Wondergirl since she seems to know so much about and is defending such places and that should tell the story about who we are conversing with! Conversation with that one ended immediately!

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Originally Posted by SkyGem

Besides that, what Patriotic American wants to go to a church, no matter what it predominant race, and listen to sermons that damn America, our beloved country! Speeches that border on sedition are not my cup of tea, folks. Too bad it appears to be the name brand of Wondergirl since she seems to know so much about and is defending such places and that should tell the story about who we are conversing with! Conversation with that one ended immediately!

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Vail Colorado-Todays information & news from Vail Daily - Commentary

"Matt Zalaznick
Vail, CO Colorado
March 20, 2008


White America and its news anchors are still afraid of black men. Especially angry ones who criticize the homeland.

I see bigotry, racism, xenophobia, antipathy and distrust in the hysterical reactions to the speeches of Barack Obama’s fiery pastor, Jeremiah Wright, and the guilt-by-association some hope will torpedo the Democratic frontrunner’s presidential aspirations.

Perhaps I’m paranoid, but I detect a slight trace of glee in the full-frontal assault on Obama’s connection to Wright by the likes of Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly and other less-demented pundits’

They seem to almost be breathing a sigh of relief that, if the inflammatory pastor finally sinks his unflappable follower, the threat of a black president will have passed, and we can all move on to being worried about a female commander in chief.

While Jeremiah Wright strikes fear into the hearts of America (and its 24-hour news channels) when he suggests U.S. policy may have triggered the rage behind Sept. 11, white “men of god” and white politicians can bash gays without making a single headline.

And if they do make headlines, their “holiness” — or their skin color — seems to excuse their hate speech. Sometimes, the media and others turn the harmless white bigot into a victim when he or she is blasted and scorned for intolerance.

Former Pennsylvania senator Rick Santorum used to call gays one of the biggest threats to America. Former presidential candidate and Colorado congressman Tom Tancredo has called other cultures a major threat to America.

But W. has never been vilified quite like Obama has for his ties to these cultural cavemen, or for his ties to leaders to the religious right who spew even worse hate speech — all while visiting Denver prostitutes.

But a black preacher’s sometimes over-the-top anger at a nation that has, during its history, treated his people beyond dreadfully is portrayed as something dangerous, even seditious.

A key part of Obama’s riveting speech on race Tuesday was when he talked about the anger and bitterness still felt by blacks of his pastor’s generation. Wright still distrusts white America, and the progress made on civil rights hasn’t allayed his fears that there could still be backlash against blacks by the ethic majority.

If blacks could be enslaved in the 19th Century and lynched and oppressed well into the 20th, what’s to say it couldn’t happen again? It may seem unlikely, but that must be the fear that drives some of Wright’s anger.

As a Jew, I can’t compare my easy American experience to that of American blacks, but I can understand how an older generations’ memories of a harsh past can breed fears of future persecution.

Many Jews of my grandparents’ and parents generations’ — some of whom may never have experienced direct anti-Semitism unless they tried to join the local country club — have a lingering fear that, if our people could have been slaughtered and discriminated against for hundreds of years, Jews also could once again become the target of a tyrannical government, even here in the Land of the Free.

In fact, many Jews I know said the most uncomfortable they’ve ever been in their lives about their religion has been during George W. Bush’s presidency.

A few white Christian males have even adopted a sort-of “reverse victimhood.” They have dominated the nation for so much of its history that when their primacy begins to teeter a bit, they try to play the role of the persecuted when the true victims of the past — such as Jeremiah Wright and his congregation — express their anger and remind the majority of its crimes.

The most offensive aspect of the recent attacks on Obama and his pastor is the ownership the white majority takes of the United States when they brand people like Jeremiah Wright traitors because they’ve said very unpleasant things about the way we, as a nation, have behaved.

But the great thing about the United States is that — unlike some nations where we are fighting wars (Iraq) or propping up shady regimes (Saudi Arabia) to ensure our oil supply — the country does not belong to any single ethnicity, gender or religion.

To suggest otherwise — and to levy even greater scorn on a member of a minority for criticizing Uncle Sam — is to show a true lack of patriotism."

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Originally Posted by SkyGem

Besides that, what Patriotic American wants to go to a church, no matter what it predominant race, and listen to sermons that damn America, our beloved country! Speeches that border on sedition are not my cup of tea, folks. Too bad it appears to be the name brand of Wondergirl since she seems to know so much about and is defending such places and that should tell the story about who we are conversing with! Conversation with that one ended immediately!

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Rev. Wright, is an ex Marine, and has EARNED the right to say whatever he pleases, about anything he wants. If you would Google a little, you would find that what he says is the TRUTH! That's what boggles my mind, the media hasn't even investigated what he said. You have a computer, look it up. Start with how the CIA funded the rebels in Nicaragua. And go for it.

And just for giggles, look up the history of the Persian Gulf, start at 1920 when they found oil in Iraq. See who came a calling, and how they established the cultivating of the oil fields. I'm sure some smart reporter will start to add things up.

Those that ignore the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat it. Get to googling!

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Originally Posted by SkyGem

Besides that, what Patriotic American wants to go to a church, no matter what it predominant race, and listen to sermons that damn America, our beloved country! Speeches that border on sedition are not my cup of tea, folks. Too bad it appears to be the name brand of Wondergirl since she seems to know so much about and is defending such places and that should tell the story about who we are conversing with! Conversation with that one ended immediately!

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When fundamentalist Christians have been seated at restaurant tables near the washrooms and kitchen, have had to drink out of defective or inoperable water fountains that are separate from those that everyone else drinks from, are made to use separate public toilets that haven't been cleaned for months and have broken fixtures, have been told their children must transfer to an inadequate school across town when a good one is only a few blocks from home, must be buried in their own cemeteries, cannot initiate a conversation and are not allowed to make eye contact with anyone who isn't a fundamentalist Christian, and have sat at the back of the bus only because that's the ujspoken rule, then let's discuss this rationally. (SkyGem is showing prejudice by not being willing even to discuss.)

Iran Contra Affair

Main article: CIA and Contras cocaine trafficking in the US
Released on April 13, 1989, the Kerry Committee report concluded that members of the U.S. State Department "who provided support for the Contras were involved in drug trafficking...and elements of the Contras themselves knowingly received financial and material assistance from drug traffickers."
In 1996 Gary Webb wrote a series of articles published in the San Jose Mercury News, which investigated Nicaraguans linked to the CIA-backed Contras who had allegedly smuggled cocaine into the U.S. which was then distributed as crack cocaine into Los Angeles and funneled profits to the Contras. According to Webb, the CIA was aware of the cocaine transactions and the large shipments of drugs into the U.S. by the Contra personnel and directly aided drug dealers to raise money for the Contras.
In 1996 CIA Director John Deutsch went to Los Angeles to refute the allegations raised by the Gary Webb, and was famously confronted by former LAPD officer Michael Rupert, who said he had witnessed it occurring. [6]

I saw this confrontation on HBO.

Wondergirl the truth is that Rev Wright's version of liberation theology is separatist and an endorsement of segregation. They have rejected the message of MLK Jr.

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

Even stranger coming from Caucasian Republicans that have never stepped foot into a African-American church before.

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Since I raised the question I feel the need to remind you that I have on several occasions set foot in black churches... I've already said that.

Obama has clarified that his Grandmother isn't racist, "she is a typical white person."

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610 WIP host Angelo Cataldi asked Obama about his Tuesday morning speech on race at the National Constitution Center in which he referenced his own white grandmother and her prejudice. Obama told Cataldi that "The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity, but that she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know (pause) there's a reaction in her that doesn't go away and it comes out in the wrong way."

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I feel better now, don't you? Oh, and could you expand on what a "typical white person" is Mr. Obama?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Obama has clarified that his Grandmother isn't racist, "she is a typical white person."



I feel better now, don't you? Oh, and could you expand on what a "typical white person" is Mr. Obama?

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Ya think? Well... I'll give the same lecture I just provided Tom. I'm not going to be voting based on McCain's feeling for his great uncle, his cousin, or his mother. Obama loves all his family black and white, as I'm sure John McCain does. I know you heard some old white Republican news commentator on TV suggest that Obama threw his grandmother under the bus. Well Steve their paid to say nonsense to stir the masses and have no substance at a time when GW Bush has screwed the majority of us into economic oblivion.

Hello:

I ain't no Christian, so what do I know about it? However, Jesus was rabblerousing Jew, and I know something about that.

He wasn't politically correct. He upset the status quo. He disrupted the comfortable. He got angry. He threw the moneychangers out of the temple. You seemed to like it when Jesus did it. Is that cause he was white? Or because YOU were the one being oppressed?? Frankly, Jesus raised holy hell. Why can't Wright?

excon

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Wondergirl the truth is that Rev Wright's version of liberation theology is separatist and an endorsement of segregation. They have rejected the message of MLK Jr.

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You can infer that from a 10 minute sound bite? Your good.

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

Ya think?! Well...I'll give the same lecture I just provided Tom. I'm not going to be voting based on McCain's feeling for his great uncle, his cousin, or his mother. Obama loves all his family black and white, as I'm sure John McCain does. I know you heard some old white Republican news commentator on TV suggest that Obama threw his grandmother under the bus. Well Steve their paid to say nonsense to stir the masses and have no substance at a time when GW Bush has screwed the majority of us into economic oblivion.

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Thanks Bobby, but I don't need a lecture. You can vote for whoever you want for whatever reason, and I don't recall having doubted how much Obama loves his granny.

I do find it amusing how sensitive Obama's supporters get over the idea that he might be imperfect, that his Messianic credentials are fading. It's funny to see how quickly they change the subject when one of his flaws is revealed and after we've been treated to 8 years of Bush bashing, it's even funnier when they divert the attention to Bush.

Picture McCain saying something about a "typical black man." How long do you think before Jesse, Al, the NAACP and every MSM outlet in the country had a major hissy fit? Besides the latest Obama episodes revealing legitimate reasons to question his judgment, it highlights this racial double standard that myself and plenty of others are fed up with... and I don't need any "old white Republican news commentator" to explain it to me. Like it or not this past week has raised serious concerns about Obama, and until he can quit stumbling his way through it it's not going to get any easier for him or his supporters.

I want to know what a "typical white person" is to Mr. Obama. Am I one? Are you one? Tell us Senator, what exactly is a "typical white person?"

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

I ain't no Christian, so what do I know about it? However, Jesus was rabblerousing Jew, and I know something about that.

He wasn't politically correct. He upset the status quo. He disrupted the comfortable. He got angry. He threw the moneychangers out of the temple. You seemed to like it when Jesus did it. Is that cause he was white? Or because YOU were the one being oppressed??? Frankly, Jesus raised holy hell. Why can't Wright?

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Yeah, Jesus was raising holy hell about the hypocrites. I can only imagine how He would react to some of Wright's rants. :D

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Wondergirl the truth is that Rev Wright's version of liberation theology is seperatist and an endorsement of segregation. They have rejected the message of MLK Jr.

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Tom, that's not true at all!! Have you heard or read lots of Wright's sermons? Have you interviewed him? Have you read up on his philosophy?

Excon
Wright can and has spoken…at the same time, I can and have, and you can and have. And with this post [post #68 you reach a couple thousand years in the past.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

And with this post [post #68 you reach a couple thousand years in the past.

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Hello DC:

Yes, I did. Because the times and the people and what they say are SOOOO comparible. You don't think they are. Don't surprise me none.

excon

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Tom, that's not true at all!! Have you heard or read lots of Wright's sermons? Have you interviewed him? Have you read up on his philosophy?

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I have read the church's web site as well as reasearched the people Rev Wright says influenced him .

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...-195912-3.html

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Picture McCain saying something about a "typical black man." How long do you think before Jesse, Al, the NAACP and every MSM outlet in the country had a major hissy fit?

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Hmmmm let's see what Jesse said in a similar vein :

There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved. -- Jesse Jackson

Jesse must be a typical white person.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

as a matter of fact I have read the church's web site as well as reasearched the people Rev Wright says influenced him .

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...-195912-3.html

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And you're black, in your 60s, and grew up in the United States?

Hello tom:

The point Wondergirl is making, and I echo it, is that no matter how smart you are (and you're smart), and no matter how much empathy you have for the black community, you can't understand what a black man goes through unless you live in his black skin.

Beyond that, having never experienced what black people go through, I find it quite presumptions of the right wing to expect that black people should think and act like white people - especially the ones who aren't in the ghetto anymore.

excon

Anyone ever listen to Bill Cosby on the subject? Now, he's intelligent.

I reject the argument that it's a black thing so I can't understand. What Rev Wright and the black liberationist are selling is a philosophy diametrically opposed to MLK Jr 's message and it denegrades what he fought for.btw ;I agree with you that the core message in Obama's speech on the subject was the same argument you make... it's a black thing. Wright's racism is understandable and so is Obama's grandmothers . Nonsense !
It doesn't advance anything and it does not unite .

In Obama's 2004 Dem Convention Speech that propelled him to national prominence he said “there is not a black America and a white America... . There's the United States of America.” That is what made him so transitional and gave people so much hope. . The question is ;does he believe it or not? His 20 year attendance at Wright's church and his close association with him gives us ligitimate reasons to question that.