Ask Me Help Desk - Has Obama has jumped ship early?

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Obama has not answered adequately for me how a 20 year implicit endorsement of black liberation theology has framed the person he is . Black liberation theology is not the theology of social Christianity that leaders like MLK Jr espoused . It is clearly separatist and it just is not congruent to the philosophy that a "uniter " would subscribe to .

I doubt seriously if the sound bites we have seen covers his 30 year career, nor gives us insights into his other sermons, which are suspiciously absent. Haven't you ever wondered if we are being fed only that which is negative to some? My own research has confirmed, that most of the things, in the snipets we see are correct, and above all the old guy is entitled to his opinion. Do you have a doubt this is a attempt to undermine his campaign, as I have found nothing else in the public forum, that shows any evidence, that he agrees with the good reverend, on these subjects. Further, its politics at its best (worse?)

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Black liberation theology is not the theology of social Christianity that leaders like MLK Jr espoused .

You can explain that one, as black liberation theology, is not restricted to just MLK, who was assassinated in 1968, and many changes have been made since then, or are you saying we should go back to that time?

Forget what the Reverend says ;I have issues with the material available in the church's website . The basic philosophy is racist and separatist. I go into greater detail here : https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...-195912-3.html

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or are you saying we should go back to that time

MLK's message beats the hell out of what Rev Wright preaches :

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
I have a dream today
I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of "interposition" and "nullification" -- one day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.

By endorsing Rev Wright's self imposed segregation Obama is rejecting the message of MLK Jr . Obama needs to clarifiy this issue further .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

forget what the Reverend says ;I have issues with the material available in the church's website . The basic philosophy is racist and seperatist. I go into greater detail here : https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...-195912-3.html

I can just see you trying to to teach Black Theology. A class room full of African-Americans look up at the old white guy professor as they scratch their heads saying amongst themselves, "being separate from white Christian slave owners that beat us and raped our women, is a bad thing?!" Again Tom you're not understanding the fact that "Black Theology" and "Wrights personal views affixed to the theology" are apples and oranges. This is almost as silly as those whom deny the Holocaust. They are known history revisionist. Again your proving my earlier point that Republican Christians are less likely to understand the African-American communities, than their religious peers in Democrat Christians. Just another reason why most blacks vote Democrat.

Welfare?

Hello momma:

There's another thread going on here right now about Obama's church leader. There are those who complain that he's a separatist - that his church teaches division instead of togetherness...

These old white men are blind to the fact that their own churches teach division, just like your candidate is doing. They don't know that they're doing that... I have no idea WHY they don't know that, but it's clear that they don't.

excon

PS> I'm going to post this on both threads.

PPS> Don't vote for the guy.

PPPS> Christians, please explain to me how declaring this nation to be a Christian nation is NOT separatist!!

Well I'm out of here. There is no way that my views can be compared to holocost denying .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

well I'm out of here. there is no way that my views can be compared to holocost denying .

Have a good one. No offence, but that was your choice to make innuendo of Barack being a racist.

Hello again:

There is a racial disconnect here. It's been going on for a long, long time. Maybe, the time has come to discuss it.

Bobby pretty much hit the nail on the head. Black people, the age of Wright, AREN'T a bunch of happy Americans. They personally experienced racism up close and personal. They were told to sit in the back of the bus. They were told that they couldn't pee in a white restroom, couldn't drink from a white water fountain, and couldn't eat at a white restaurant.

White people, the age of tom, never really understood what was going on, but nonetheless, believes they should get over it, and, have no clue why they don't.

excon

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By endorsing Rev Wright's self imposed segregation Obama is rejecting the message of MLK Jr . Obama needs to clarifiy this issue further .

Beside what the media has presented, is there anything else he has said that you don't agree with?

Me too Tom…I thought I might get some sort of argument in Wrights defense but all I see is an attack on his critics with a little Jewish victimhood thrown in.

Hello DC:

I'm not surprised you're out of here. I just showed up, and my arguments scare you.

excon

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Me too Tom…I thought I might get some sort of argument in Wrights defense but all I see is an attack on his critics with a little Jewish victimhood thrown in.

Moving on? Well you'll never be short on gas and there's certainly enough room in that empty argumentative U-Haul truck of yours to pick up more Republicans.

More of the same Bobby…It makes me wonder about the Obama supporters who has spoken in this forum who can't put together an argument supporting Wright and his church when others have, including Obama.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again:

There is a racial disconnect here. It's been going on for a long, long time. Maybe, the time has come to discuss it.

Bobby pretty much hit the nail on the head. Black people, the age of Wright, AREN'T a bunch of happy Americans. They personally experienced racism up close and personal. They were told to sit in the back of the bus. They were told that they couldn't pee in a white restroom, couldn't drink from a white water fountain, and couldn't eat at a white restaurant.

White people, the age of tom, never really understood what was going on, but nonetheless, believes they should get over it, and, have no clue why they don't.

ex, I never really 'understood' what was going on, I just went to school with all my mostly Hispanic and black friends every day. Sure I get it now, but even as Obama said yesterday America has not been static on racial issues.

If his Wikipedia entry is correct, I have to wonder what Wright is so pi**ed about.

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He then joined the United States Marine Corps and later transferred to the United States Navy where he worked as a cardiopulmonary technician.[1] Wright then enrolled at Howard University, where he received a bachelor's degree in 1968 and a Master’s degree in English in 1969. In 1975, he earned an additional Master’s degree from the University of Chicago Divinity School, and a Doctor of Ministry degree from United Theological Seminary in 1990 where he studied under Samuel DeWitt Proctor. He also has eight honorary doctorate degrees and has taught courses at many seminaries and universities in the nation.

It sure sounds like this country has really held him back, doesn't it? The man has it far, far better than I do. Maybe members of his congregation don't though, but what value to them is there in railing against the "Great White West?" How exactly does that lift them out of their situation? And the question I've asked over and over is how is telling me how racist I am going to heal anything?

Hello again, Steve:

Great questions.

First and foremost, Wright isn't running for president. Yes, things are a million percent better for black people today than they were. But, we're not there yet – not by a long shot... I think, you think we are. Therein, lies the disconnect.

No, you're not racist, Steve. But somebody still is, and somebody needs to keep pointing it out. I know that you're a good man, and that when you look around your community, you don't understand why black people still live over there. You think they have the opportunity to get out if they really wanted to. And, of course, some do. Yes, MORE do today than ever did.

I also think you look in their neighborhood and see people living that way by choice. I don't. I see the result of racism.

You don't get that the drug war is racist, and has replaced segregation as the black mans bane. You don't get that denying children health care is racist.

Wright understands all of these things well. He's always talked about it, and I hope he always will.

excon

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how is telling me how racist I am going to heal anything?

I can't say you are, and nothing in your writing makes you one.

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Maybe members of his congregation don't though, but what value to them is there in railing against the "Great White West?"

Stands to reason he has seen a lot over the course of his life, and how can we just dimiss that, because some conservative poly wog is offended? Again, how can a sound bite, define a mans whole life? Does that erase the rest of his service? Don't you wonder, why they never talk about that, while they vilify a few comments? I am curious, and more than a little suspicious.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

Great questions.

First and foremost, Wright isn't running for president. Yes, things are a million percent better for black people today than they were. But, we're not there yet – not by a long shot.... I think, you think we are. Therein, lies the disconnect.

No, of course I don't think we're "there" yet. And of course, somebody still is racist and no, we shouldn't stop talking about it. But (you knew there'd be a but), like the incident at the University of Delaware I've mentioned before that says the term racist "applies to all white people (i.e. people of European descent) living in the United States, regardless of class, gender, religion, culture or sexuality,” how does that kind of thing heal the racial divides that still exist? Black preachers and black churches may not see the big deal in railing against white America as Wright did, but I do, and I see no difference in that and what this university tried to do.

You're a smart guy, do you not see that much of the left is invested in keeping racism alive while people like me are saying what the hell are you people talking about? We don't care if you're black or whatever, we intend to treat you as anyone else, give you the same opportunities and expect the same in return, so why are you talking about how racist we are in ANY context? That doesn't help us confront the problems together. HOW we talk about racism matters, doesn't it?

Wright obviously became a student of Carmichael; black power ideology and philosophy. Was he wrong?

Were Huey P. Newton, Bobby Seale, Eldridge Cleaver, Malcolm X, and the Mass protests of the 60's wrong?

Wrong or right they did not have enough muscle to change power relationships.

In the early 70's Afro-Americans like Wright then turned to putting their theories into practice: Building community organizations and creating the economic and political foundations necessary for the future, while railing against everything white.

The black liberation struggle in this country is not over; everything from violence to an appeal to conscience has been found woefully inadequate.

Such things as 'The Black Caucus and elected officials is the current method to change.

It's a fairly short read and I recommend it for anyone interested in the "Black Experience in America"

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Stands to reason he has seen a lot over the course of his life, and how can we just dimiss that, because some conservative poly wog is offended? Again, how can a sound bite, define a mans whole life? Does that erase the rest of his service? Don't you wonder, why they never talk about that, while they villify a few comments? I am curious, and more than a little suspicious.

Like I asked excon, HOW we talk about racism matters, doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Like I asked excon, HOW we talk about racism matters, doesn't it?

Yes it does. It goes on a lot more than we think. Do you think that Hannity believes that? He ticks me off.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

More of the same Bobby…It makes me wonder about the Obama supporters who has spoken in this forum who can't put together an argument supporting Wright and his church when others have, including Obama.

Try to stay in touch with reality. I've been on the subject going on a week now. Just because you have your head stuck in John McCain's tuchus doesn't mean others have to accompany you into deaf, dumb, and blatant blindness. You just went from philosophical second string bench-warmer to first string denial. Congratulations!

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Yes it does. It goes on a lot more than we think. Do you think that Hannity believes that? He ticks me off.

Hannity is a paid Fox news commentator. I don't even think he believes his own nonsense. He's making a career out of presenting himself as a narrow minded pompous and he's doing a great job at it. :cool:

Bobby

More insults, is that genetic with you or a learned habit?

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

Hannity is a paid Fox news commentator. I don't even think he believes his own nonsense. He's making a career out of presenting himself as a narrow minded pompous and he's doing a great job at it. :cool:

More insults, is that genetic with you or a learned habit? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Yes it does. It goes on a lot more than we think. Do you think that Hannity believes that? He ticks me off.

I have no idea what Hannity thinks, I don't watch his show or listen to his radio program. Do you?

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

More insults, is that genetic with you or a learned habit? :rolleyes:

Genetics? A cloned monkey knows that Hannity is a paid Fox news employee that hired to provide commentary with a Republican slant. Surely even you've made far enough progress up the evolution ladder to recognize that. ;)

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

Genetics?! A cloned monkey knows that Hannity is a paid Fox news employee that hired to provide commentary with a Republican slant. Surely even you've made far enough progress up the evolution ladder to recognize that. ;)

More insults, is there anyone you have not insulted? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

More insults, is there anyone you have not insulted? :rolleyes:

Yes. I have not insulted those of intelligence with an IQ minimum above room temperature. :)

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

Yes. I have not insulted those of intelligence with an IQ minimum above room temperature. :)

Is that Jewish superiority I hear? I suppose the Old Yiddish folk saying is true… "Villains fare well in this world, saints in the next world.":rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Is that Jewish superiority I hear? I suppose the Old Yiddish folk saying is true… "Villains fare well in this world, saints in the next world.":rolleyes:

Are you hearing voices... again? We have a saying, "A sheivgendoiker nar is a halber chcochem." Which means, a quite fool is half a sage. Here's another, "Ver es kon kain pulver nit shmeken, der zol in der malchumeh nit gai'en." Which means, He that cannot stand the smell of gunpowder should not engage in war! And since you, an atheist, all the suddenly became interested in my Jewish heritage here's one to take to heart, "Mit yid iz gut kugel essen, ober nit af ain teller. Which means, it's good to eat pudding with a Jew, but not from the same plate. :)

Glad to see the bonding, but I'm confused as to which of you to vote for.

Well yes Bobby, as an atheist I can hardly claim God's unabashed favoritism.:p

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Glad to see the bonding, but I'm confused as to which of you to vote for.

No, no, no! Please don't put me on the ballot, I already have enough responsibility. Besides my wife just gave me orders to quit toying with DC. Time permitting I'll catch everyone later in the week. G-d bless.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Glad to see the bonding, but I'm confused as to which of you to vote for.

I can’t run talaniman, do you realize how terrific and remarkable his insights and sensitivities are! How could any one person be so brilliant, so on-target, so profound?. he must be Jewish!:p

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

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What half of the equator are you residing on?! Like Skell said earlier, you're about five threads late to the party. Obama rose above the Republican fray after re-addressing these issues some 12 hours plus ago. Stay in touch, man.

I'm residing on the half of the equator that QUESTIONS things that need to be questioned, not on the half that BLINDLY BELIEVES in all that your candidate conveniently throws at you. I know you are desperately trying to cover this IMPORTANT matter up between Obama and Wright, but guess what? It Just Won't Go Away! It Can't! The American people have now grabbed ahold of it tightly and are not letting go and are going to see it to the finish! Oh, and just because Obama addressed the Republican party with his clever rhetoric and smile, you believed every word he said huh? Didn't God give you a brain with which to question independently, man? I know, you are just a blind believer in Obama. Bet if he told you that the fragrance was alluring and asked you to stick your head inside an outhouse opening, you'd ask how deep and for how long, sir. Man, that's what I call Double Blind Faith in a smooth talker!

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Originally Posted by SkyGem

I'm residing on the half of the equator that QUESTIONS things that need to be questioned, not on the half that BLINDLY BELIEVES in all that your candidate conveniently throws at you. I know you are desperately trying to cover this IMPORTANT matter up between Obama and Wright, but guess what? It Just Won't Go Away! It Can't! The American people have now grabbed ahold of it tightly and are not letting go and are going to see it to the finish! Oh, and just because Obama addressed the Republican party with his clever rhetoric and smile, you believed every word he said huh? Didn't God give you a brain with which to question independently, man? I know, you are just a blind believer in Obama. Bet if he told you that the fragrance was alluring and asked you to stick your head inside an outhouse opening, you'd ask how deep and for how long, sir. Man, that's what I call Double Blind Faith in a smooth talker!

Replace the name Obama with the name Bush in this post and you have a great description of the other half of America.

Oh but sorry, Bush certainly doesn't have clever rhetoric though does he.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

I can’t run talaniman, do you realize how terrific and remarkable his insights and sensitivities are! How could any one person be so brilliant, so on-target, so profound? ... he must be Jewish!:p

Why are you so blatantly jealous? And trust me you wouldn't get elected. ;)