Ask Me Help Desk - There is a movement afoot?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_crow

It didn't start the way Elliot. When th e lady sat in the front of the bus and refused to go to the back there was no "Movement." But she certainly helped to start one.

But nobody called it a political "movement" at the time that Rosa Parks sat on the bus. It only became a "movement" once it had real muscle, and real goals and real leadership. Only in the aftermath was Rosa Parks linked to the "civil rights movement".

My point is that it is premature to call any support for Obama a "movement".

Quote:

You're right though about his movement, there is no movement, it petered out

We shall see. I don't think Hillary should stop looking over her shoulders quite yet. I thought Fred Thompson was DONE, but he's making a good showing. People have been ruling Rudy out, but he's making a good showing too. McCain's campaign was considered dead just a month ago, but he's bouncing. So don't count Obama out quite yet. It's a LONG TIME until the elections, and lots of things can happen.

Elliot

Besides the Clintoons may have stuck their feet in their mouths when their attempt at a sista soulja moment became a macaca moment .

Yeah, did you hear what Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. said on MSNBC… "those tears also have to be analyzed." Then there is Clinton's statements with racial and gender undertones made about Obama and saying that it took President Lyndon Johnson to enact the civil rights agenda pushed by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

It's heating up to what may yet to be racial problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_crow

may yet to be racial problem.

Hello DC:

May YET be??

Dude! You seem to think we're a lot less racist than I think we are. And, the right wingers haven't even started yet.

excon

excon, you left off the Bwa ha ha

Hello again, George:

Oops.

excon

Exxon, I have no illusions about how racist people I meet are; the reason I can tell is that I am not. But it most often shows itself in private conversations, not in public between Democratic presidential candidates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_crow

But it most often shows itself in private conversations, not in public between Democratic presidential candidates.

Hello again, DC:

It usually does. However, this is the first time in our history where a black man has a real chance at the presidency.

So, I'm afraid you're about to see all that private racism come out in full force.

Exxon

Exxon or excon wrote: "However, this is the first time in our history where a black man has a real chance at the presidency." I don't know the odds in Vegas, but I don't give him more than a 10% chance. But he won't be the last black man with a real chance; the fact that he is black is absolutely no reason to vote for him or against him. Bwe he he

Odds on Barack Obama 70-1
Hillary Clinton is way out in front at 3-1.

As of November the betting sites all rate Giuliani likely to win the GOP nomination but behind Clinton for the presidency

Quote:

So, I'm afraid you're about to see all that private racism come out in full force.

The Democrats arranged a temporary hudna on the race and gender issues. The Democrat primary date in South Carolina is Jan. 26. With over half of the Democrats in S.C. being black I expect this truce to fall apart sometime next week . I think their little race spat was engineered by the Clintonoids anyway. They may be conceding that Evita is not Bill and will not be a "black President" . She instead may be trying to attract the middle of the road white voters ;not so much to win in S.C. but to win nationally . Eugene Robinson of the Washinton Compost thinks so .
washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

Perhaps the hudna will hold within the ranks of the campaigns ;but with a wink and a nod the racial attacks will continue via 501c3 attack ads... or even better ;their allies in the MSM Daily Kos: State of the Nation (follow links to Richard Cohen Washington Compost editorial)

D*ck Morris comments on the Clintoon strategy :

Quote:

According to the Rasmussen poll of Monday, Jan. 14, Obama leads among blacks by 66-16 while Hillary is ahead among whites by 41-27. The overall head to head is 37-30 in favor of Hillary.

It does not matter which specific reference to race can be traced to whom. Obama's campaign has resisted any temptation to campaign on race and, for an entire year, kept the issue off the front pages. Now, at the very moment that the crucial voting looms, the election is suddenly about race. Obviously, it is the Clintons' doing. Remember the adage: Who benefits?

As Super Tuesday nears, the Clintons will likely take their campaign to a new level, charging that Obama can't win.

They will never cite his skin color in this formulation, but it will be obvious to all voters what they mean: that a black cannot get elected.

RealClearPolitics - Articles - In Contrast to Obama, Hillary Plays the Race Card

The hudna served Evita's purpose as Morris further explains.

Quote:

The Clintons will be very careful about how they go about injecting race into the campaign. Part of their strategy will be to provoke discussion of whether race is becoming a factor in the election. Anything that portrays Obama as black and asks about the role of race in the contest will serve their political interest.

If you watched the debate last night ;the 1st half hour was devoted exclusively to the race question.

By the way the dumbest question of the night during the Democrat debate came from an Email question to the candidates :

Quote:

"The policy differences among the remaining candidates is so slight that we appear to be choosing on the basis of personality and life story. That being said, why should I, as a progressive woman, not resent being forced to choose between the first viable female candidate and the first viable African American candidate?"

Quote:

"The policy differences among the remaining candidates is so slight that we appear to be choosing on the basis of personality and life story. That being said, why should I, as a progressive woman, not resent being forced to choose between the first viable female candidate and the first viable African American candidate?"

Uhhh... let me get this straight... this "progressive woman" is resentful of the fact that this election might either make history or make history?

She's angry at the fact that the two top Democratic Presidential Candidates are also the fist viable woman candidate for President and the first viable black candidate for President?

A "progressive woman" who presumably wants to see the first female and first black presidents in her lifetime is resentful of the fact that BOTH of these opportunities are being presented to her at the same time?

Perhaps she's feel more cofortable voting for Condoleeza Rice for President. That way she doesn't have to shoose between voting for the first woman President and the first black President... she can do both at once.

Mind you, this sounds exactly like the very type of person who would claim that the USA is a fascist, authoritarian nation... despite the fact that both the first female and first black to be viable candidates for President are running in the same election. And she's RESENTFUL of that fact!!

Progressivism is indeed a sickness.

I wonder if there's a 12-step program for progressive liberals.

(Hi, I'm Nancy, and I'm an idiot"

"Hi Nancy."

"I've been sober from progressive liberalism for five days now, and its tough. People keep making me look at FACTS and read HISTORY, as if that stuff has anything to do with the issues. But I keep working the steps, and if I get a desire to be an idiot, I just turn on some Conservative talk radio and call my sponsor right away."

"Thanks for sharing, Nancy.")

Elliot

I wonder if her enthusiasm for diversity would equally apply to Piyush "Bobby" Jindal the first elected Indian-American governor in U.S. history. Somehow I doubt it. He is Republican.

It appears there is a movement afoot. Any Obama supporters out there?:p

Actually, no "movement" at all. Movement for what? For 'change'? Has he defined who he is and what he wants to do? What are his beliefs? Obama is just another rich pol who happens to be black that feels our pain and wants to tell us what to do. I was curious about his net worth: "The 50th-richest senator, with a net worth at the end of 2005 of between $1 million and $2.5 million, has most of his assets in bank and retirement accounts, owning only three publicly traded securities." A look at Barack Obama the investor - MSN Money
I don't understand how anyone could be a Democrat, much less a Democrat politician. I'll be a monkey's uncle if there is any movement other than statism/fascism. I am a bit curious: the statists have control of education; when will they take over fire departments? Doesn't everyone have a right to emergency services? I mean, it's the 21st century; are we going to sit idly by and do nothing while someone's house burns down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by George_1950

I don't understand how anyone could be a Democrat

I think all who read your posts realize that. To each his own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by George_1950

I'll be a monkey's uncle if there is any movement other than statism/fascism.

Actually Bush's reign has been the closest thing to fascism. As for "statism" part have you not heard of laws enacted that allow warrantless spying on you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_crow

It appears there is a movement afoot. Any Obama supporters out there?:p

Hello again, DC:

I think there are. George ain't one of 'em. And, if Ron Paul doesn't win the nomination, you betcha I ain't voting for McCain.

excon

So, excon, what did you learn about the movement at your caucus? Tell me more.

Hello again, George:

What I learned was that your dufus in chief sooooo screwed up the country and the Republican party, that the people in this great nation of ours are willing to support anybody BUT a Republican.

Some might call it a movement toward something. I think it's a movement away from something. To me, it's a total repudiation of the Bush Doctrine.

excon

This unknown Black Junior Senator is undoing the Democratic Party. It appears to me he has started a revival of the Martin Luther King Civil Rights Movement that was lost to the Left. He has his own Dream and it calls for an end to Partisan Politics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_crow

This unknown Black Junior Senator is undoing the Democratic Party.

Certainly not. The people will pick the person whose message they like.

NK…The two are not mutually exclusive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_crow

This unknown Black Junior Senator is undoing the Democratic Party.

Hello again, DC:

So, why doncha just call him the Junior Senator..? You right wingers can't see your racism and it's staring you in the face. I guess it's really going to bother you that we're about to elect a Black president.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, George:

What I learned was that your dufus in chief sooooo screwed up the country and the Republican party, that the people in this great nation of ours are willing to support anybody BUT a Republican.

Some might call it a movement toward something. I think it's a movement away from something. To me, it's a total repudiation of the Bush Doctrine.

excon

I figured, without asking, that it was a caucus of Bush haters and freedom haters; probably a lot of folks who don't sleep at night, or sleep at all for that matter. I am curious what you learned about the movement. Were you sharing stories about how the CIA broke into your bedrooms?

Quote:

Originally Posted by George_1950

freedom haters

Hahahahaha... that line always makes me laugh. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, DC:

So, why doncha just call him the Junior Senator.........??? You right wingers can't see your racism and it's staring you in the face. I guess it's really gonna bother you that we're about to elect a Black president.

excon

Excon, you never fail to amaze me with your. …!
I make the distinction just like every media out there does. By your standards everyone but you are racist. Now stay on topic or keep your mouth shut. :mad:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_crow

By your standards everyone but you are racist. Now stay on topic or keep your mouth shut. :mad:

I agree with excon here, you seem to want to push the fact that he is black when it shouldn't matter. And please refrain from telling other posters to keep their mouth shut lest we report you.

Here's what I'm talking about:

"Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a liberal America and a conservative America; there's the United States of America." Perhaps the most often quoted sound bite followed: "We worship an awesome God in the Blue States, and we don't like federal agents poking around in our libraries in the Red States. We coach Little League in the Blue States, and yes, we've got some gay friends in the Red States. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq, and there are patriots who supported the war in Iraq."

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I agree with excon here, you seem to want to push the fact that he is black when it shouldn't matter. And please refrain from telling other posters to keep their mouth shut lest we report you.

Agree or disagree I don't care... report me if you like

So? What's wrong with that quote?

Not a thing wrong with that quote, I agree with his philosophy 100% there. Who else have you heard say that... That is New.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Here's what I'm talking about:

"Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a liberal America and a conservative America; there's the United States of America." Perhaps the most often quoted sound bite followed: "We worship an awesome God in the Blue States, and we don't like federal agents poking around in our libraries in the Red States. We coach Little League in the Blue States, and yes, we've got some gay friends in the Red States. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq, and there are patriots who supported the war in Iraq."

And this is a movement, or the basis of a movement? It's funny recollecting Bill Clinton, the red-neck, Eastern educated power-lover: he or Carville or someone realized that a Dem would never be elected without an array of American flags behind them, all-the-while detesting individualism and personal liberty, and scheming away at increasing the size and cost of government and raising taxes. Bwe he he he I'll never forget the red neck President-elect calling all his contributors to Little Rock for an 'economic' summit. Billy promised middle class tax cuts, remember? After the big meeting, Billy comes out and says, "I've never worked on anything as hard in my life as trying to cut taxes, but we just can't afford it." Blah, blah, blah. Obama or Billary, it doesn't matter: more flags in the background and hollow promises of tax cuts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_crow

"Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a liberal America and a conservative America; there's the United States of America."

Hello DC:

He was talking to the people who were left out during the Bush presidency. Of course, you weren't left out, so you wouldn't understand what he was talking about. What Bush didn't understand, and apparently you don't either, was that he was president of all of us, not just the Republicans.

But, those who were left out understand even if you don't. There's enough of them to elect him too. Maybe if Bush would have concerned himself a little bit with the half who didn't elect him... but nahhhh. He said, and I quote, "my constituency is the have's and the have more's". And that's exactly how he governed too.

excon

I believe he was speaking to national unity and nothing to do with the rich or poor, or Bush anymore than William Clinton. He is speaking to both Parties. That’s why I said he is “undoing the Democratic Party.”

Obama is winning the black vote and the "yuppie" vote (for lack of a better word ) ;those upper level professional democrats. It is yet to be seen if he can make any inroads in the white working class democrat constituency and the hispanic vote. It appears their concerns need to be addressed with something more than lofty rhetoric.

My guess is that Obama's mo. Will slow down after Tues when he has to compete in places like Ohio ,Texas ,and Pennsylvania. If he takes these states I think he will be the nominee.

He will have a tough time with the Hispanic vote, Tom, that's for sure, and I don't expect him to win Texas; however, unless something changes this is shaping up to be another “Super bowl Upset.”

By his voting record and what he has said I don't think he is as far Left as many believe. For instance, although he campaigned to reform immigration law to provide a path to citizenship for undocumented workers currently in the United States he attached strings: through a system of fines and back taxes, learning English, satisfying a work requirement, and passing a background check.Obama also called for greater security on the border with Mexico.

Well ;like McCain I think he just read tea leaves on the immigration issue.

His voting record is the best barometer and it shows me a person who toes the line and votes with the Democrats . Interest groups send a lot of time rating these representatives of ours . On immigration ;Obama voted with the positions that the Federation for American Immigration Reform 0% of the time .But you are correct .He did say during his floor statement during the debate last year that

The American people are a welcoming and generous people. But those who enter our country illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of law. And because we live in an age where terrorists are challenging our borders, we simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, and unchecked. Americans are right to demand better border security and better enforcement of the immigration laws.

Essentially I see no difference between the positions of Obama ,Evita ,or McCain on immigration . We will have comprehensive amnesty once they are elected.

Super Bowl upset ? Fine with me so long as his battle with Madame Defarge goes into sudden death overtime.

I think McCain will be able to handle either Democrat candidate . He takes unpopular positions that drive his opponents and supporters crazy ;and he still wins.

Like the Super Bowl there is promise that the excitement will go down to the last minute for the nomination. As I pointed out early in this thread there appeared to be a movement starting and it has certainly been increasing. The movement is in the crowds he draws, not so much the delegates he is getting.

Yeah, they are pretty-much the same on immigration…and for that matter I don't believe there is a “great divide” on any of the more important issues…the divide is more in Party Philosophy.

In fact, I have put the issues aside on who I think should run the country and am attempting to evaluate on the basis of which candidate would be the better decision maker both nationally and particularly in Foreign Policy.

His Major degree in Political Science sways me as well as his study in International Relations.

Would love to hear some substance besides "change is good" and other such lofty platitudes . Alles muss anders sein ?