To me: Accountable=not ignoring this, making excuses for him and minimizing the incident, or making the assumption that the men in question were not insulted. See it for what it is. He screwed up. Again. So have all the Presidents at one time or another. The question should be, does it really make that big a difference at this point in time during his Presidency? Probably not. But, it is fun to debate it.

P.S. I just saw Tom's subsequent post. So what? Yeah, Clinton made mistakes too. Why only defend one and not the other? Because he is a Republican? Republican, Democrat, tis all the same to me. Politicians are all wankers.

I cannot believe that some people have nothing better to whine about. Let's crucify Bush or "hold him accountable" for mispronouncing a name instead of discussing his bringing together Palestinians, Syrians and Saudis to discuss peace in the ME. Are we 'neocons' the only ones that see the absurdity in this? Sheesh, this is ridiculous.

Everyone has known for at least 7 years that Bush mangles words, what makes anyone think he would suddenly sound like Reagan? I can sympathize with the man and it has nothing to do with my being a conservative.

When I want to I can write with eloquence. I can lead a congregation in worship or I can sing in front of a thousand people, but I can't read my own writing aloud without mangling the words. It has nothing to do with my intelligence, knowledge of the language or ability to pronounce the words. Something just tends to misfire between what my brain intends and what ends up coming out of my mouth - but I'm confident you will not find one person that knows me that thinks I'm an idiot because of that.

Get a grip people, there are more important things at stake than whether Bush can pronounce Olmert or nuclear properly. I mean for crying out loud, the ABC news guy on the radio pronounced the names right then talked about 'real -a- tors.' And he gets PAID to say it right.

Steve

My, my you are passionate today Speechless. Wha? Sorry, didn't see the ABC news guy. Why are you getting worked up because new people are deciding to join the thread and feel that is worth talking about? Ignore their input if it upsets you this much. What seems ridiculous to you obviously isn't ridiculous to others. Tuscany has a right to voice her opinion about it too. She just found this thread today. If the shoe were on the other foot, wouldn't you want to have your say too? I think so. And, I would defend your right to speak your piece.

I agree with Steve on this. It is much ado about nothing. Every president has screwed up words at some point or other. How many presidents have mispronounced the word "nuclear" as "nuk-u-lar" ever since the 1950s. Even Reagan messed that one up fairly regularly. Clinton couldn't define the word "is" without the help of a dictionary and a legal team. And if I remember correctly, Clinton also broke his ankle or tore a legament or something climbing a flight of stairs and hobbled around on crutches for a few weeks. Ford tripped over his own two feet. Carter asked his 7-year-old daughter for advice on nuclear proliferation, and admitted it publicly during a debate.

Every president screws up with words or trips over his own feet. Being president doesn't suddely make them infallible. People screw up. Get over it.

Elliot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

My, my you are passionate today Speechless. Wha? Sorry, didn't see the ABC news guy. Why are you getting worked up because new people are deciding to join the thread and feel that is worth talking about? Ignore their input if it upsets you this much. What seems ridiculous to you obviously isn't ridiculous to others. Tuscany has a right to voice her opinion about it too. She just found this thread today. If the shoe were on the other foot, wouldn't you want to have your say too? I think so. And, I would defend your right to speak your piece.

---

Hey, I can be passionate can't I? :D

Ruby dear, I welcome discussion and Tuscany did a fine job expressing her thoughts, well done Tuscany. :)

My last post was a commentary on the cumulative silliness of this. One person says "the Busch guy has trouble with names as a result of his cocaine use" and calls him "a flaming idiot."

Another says "Bush is either on psychotropic drugs or alcohol.....he can barely function public," (At least she didn't call him a fascist for once), and ex responds "exactamundo." And then we need to hold him accountable? For what, "tongue-tiedness?" Seriously? I really have to chuckle at that and wonder just who it is we should be worried about here, LOL.

As I tried to explain, a lack of eloquence in speech is not necessarily an indication of one's intelligence or what kind of person you are, so is that really what matters here, or is peace in the middle east of a somewhat greater concern? Just asking...

Steve

Given every thing is going so well, naturally his detractors can only point out the small stuff…

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

Every president screws up with words or trips over his own feet. People screw up. Get over it.

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Hello El:

This wasn't a word. He wasn't mispronouncing nuclear to a school class. He didn't go out the wrong door. He didn't trip.

This was a colossal mistake that could have been easily avoided. This conference has world wide implications. These men were the two most important people in the world to him if he wanted to rescue his presidency, and create a legacy for himself. That was his goal, after all - not peace.

Yet, he couldn't be bothered to learn their names. I'm telling you, with practice, he could have done it. My 4 year old granddaughter could have done it. I know he could. But, it wasn't IMPORTANT enough to him.

I think it says volumes about the man and his presidency. Yes, I'm going to tell everybody.

Minimize it if you will, but in the real world where the big folks play, it ain't MINIMUM at all.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello El:

This wasn't a word. He wasn't mispronouncing nuclear to a school class. He didn't go out the wrong door. He didn't trip.

This was a colossal mistake that could have been easily avoided. This conference has world wide implications. These men were the two most important people in the world to him if he wanted to rescue his presidency, and create a legacy for himself. That was his goal, after all - not peace.

Yet, he couldn't be bothered to learn their names. I'm telling you, with practice, he could have done it. My 4 year old granddaughter could have done it. I know he could. But, it wasn't IMPORTANT enough to him.

I think it says volumes about the man and his presidency. Yes, I'm going to tell everybody.

Minimize it if you will, but in the real world where the big folks play, it ain't MINIMUM at all.

excon

---

Ex, in two days I have yet to find anyone making an issue out of this (and believe me, I've tried) except the ultra liberal Thinkprogress and the World Socialist Web Site, which is more concerned with "the fact that this entire production was mounted only in order to conceal the predatory ambitions of the United States in the Middle East." And this place. Sorry, but it seems to be a non-starter everywhere else.

I absolutely agree with you about the really weird opins that you have mentioned Steve. As you saw, I questioned them yesterday. The other one about the cocaine wasn't worth my time. I like the poster who stated it, but don't agree with that particular post of his.

DC, interesting assessment of the situation.

Yeah, I would rather Excon had brought sumptin to the table that was a little juicier. It is over and done with, but to just sweep it under the rug and completely dismiss it might be a mistake. I know you do because you hate hearing it repeated. But, we really don't know if there will be any fallout from this from the Abbas camp. I am not worried about Olmert. But, it isn't just Abbas. Let's face it, the rest of the world watches everything our President does. Do you think that they will dismiss this so easily? I don't. We appear to have become the most hated country in the world. I could easily minimize and dismiss it if he mispronounced an American citizens name. I can dismiss the mispronouncement of nuclear and all the things that Elliot is pointing out about our history. Those are most definitely things in the past. One day, I will be able to dismiss this too. Probably after we see the direction these talks and hard bargaining go in. Ack, maybe. I think I will probably dismiss it after the results of Election Day 2008.

P.S. I didn't see the last two posts when I was writing and posting this. I is going to check around to see if there is any news from other countries about this.

Hello again, Steve:

I can't help it if I'm ahead of the curve. It ISN'T an issue really, if this was just a photo op. If, however, it was meant to forward peace in a part of the world that NEEDS peace, then it was a major blunder.

I'm OK with it being a photo op, though. So, it didn't mean anything in the first place... I didn't think so.

excon

excon,

What was major about it? Nobody beside a few hard-left wingers is making an issue out of it. The press ain't talking about it, the foreign leaders haven't commented on it, even the blogs have largely ignored it. It's a non-issue.

Like I said, much ado about nothing.

Elliot

The truth be known we only know how it effects us personally, and what others tell us. Is the whole world laughing, I don't think so. Who is laughing is the more important thing, and when I look around the news, it just seems irrelevant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

What was major about it? Nobody beside a few hard-left wingers is making an issue out of it. The press ain't talking about it....Like I said, much ado about nothing.

---

Hello El:

I suppose peace in the Middle East isn't too major. I don't follow the press. The press follows me.

Look, El. If you were interviewing for a BIG job, and you screwed up the guys name, you're not going to hear about it. And, you're not going to get the job either.

Of course, if you really didn't WANT the job, and you were just going through the MOTIONS, then I agree it was much ado about nothing.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

I can't help it if I'm ahead of the curve. It ISN'T an issue really, if this was just a photo op. If, however, it was meant to forward peace in a part of the world that NEEDS peace, then it was a major blunder.

I'm ok with it being a photo op, though. So, it didn't mean anything in the first place... I didn't think so.

---

I thought we'd already decided there wasn't much of a point to this meeting. And also, I agreed with you he should have learned the names. Nevertheless, in the grand scheme his gaffe doesn't seem to have many people concerned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

My, my you are passionate today Speechless. Wha? Sorry, didn't see the ABC news guy. Why are you getting worked up because new people are deciding to join the thread and feel that is worth talking about? Ignore their input if it upsets you this much. What seems ridiculous to you obviously isn't ridiculous to others. Tuscany has a right to voice her opinion about it too. She just found this thread today. If the shoe were on the other foot, wouldn't you want to have your say too? I think so. And, I would defend your right to speak your piece.

---

Thanks Ruby!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Hey, I can be passionate can't I? :D

Ruby dear, I welcome discussion and Tuscany did a fine job expressing her thoughts, well done Tuscany. :)


Steve

---

And thank you Steve. I have to say that discussions like this always amaze me. I would be the first to admit that nobody is perfect. But, as a powerful leader Bush needs to be better prepared for situations such as these. Correctly Pronouncing the name of someone who has taken the time to come to you is important and it reflects on us as a country when it can't be done properly.

Just like Clinton's little bj in the oval office reflected on us as a country.

Republican or Democrat we will continue to have discussions like this because nobody is perfect and everyone will screw up at some point. It is inevitable.

Quote:

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Oh, I'll shutup... NOT!

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Never thought you would :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello El:

I suppose peace in the Middle East isn't too major. I don't follow the press. The press follows me.

Look, El. If you were interviewing for a BIG job, and you screwed up the guys name, you're not gonna hear about it. And, you're not gonna get the job either.

Of course, if you really didn't WANT the job, and you were just going through the MOTIONS, then I agree it was much ado about nothing.

excon

---

But what if you were inteviewing for a job, and the interviewer got your name wrong. Would you laugh at the interviewer publicly, feel insulted, and tell the guy to go stuff his job? Or would you just smile and go along with the program.

The PA, the Syrians, the Saudis, the Arab countries, Israel and much of the EU want US money and US aid in some form or other. We're the ones holding the cards... we're the interviewer, not the interviewee.

So if Bush gets names wrong, they're all just going to smile and make nice because they need Bush and the USA more than we need them and they know it. They've seen Bush cut off the PA for not towing the line, and they don't want that to happen again. So they're going to make nice no matter what flubbs Bush makes regarding their names.

Ain't nothing here to fuss over, excon.

Elliot

Of course it is embarrassing. If I was an American I would be deeply embarrassed. But I'm not, and I'm still a little embarrassed! Am I surprised? No, sadly I'm not!

Our new Prime Minister (Kevin Rudd, did his overwhelming election win even make the news over there?? ) at the recent APEC meeting held in Sydney addressed the visiting Chines president and his delegation in fluent Mandarin. Did it impress the public? Sure did! Did it impress the Chinese? You bet you! Did it improve relations between the PM in waiting and China, can't speak for China but they certainly made it clear how impressed they were. The president even invited Mr Rudd and his wife to attend the Olympic Games next year. This at a time when he wasn't even PM.

Do I expect George Bush or any other world leader to be able to speak Chinese? No. Would I expect him to be able to pronounce names correctly? Yes of course. I would like to think that you other fine and respectful people would too!

Defending him is only making him look sillier than he already does to the rest of the world!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skell

Of course it is embarrassing. If i was an American i would be deeply embarrassed. But im not, and im still a little embarrassed! Am i surprised? No, sadly im not!

Our new Prime Minister (Kevin Rudd, did his overwhelming election win even make the news over there???) at the recent APEC meeting held in Sydney addressed the visiting Chines president and his delegation in fluent Mandarin. Did it impress the public? Sure did! Did it impress the Chinese?? You bet ya! Did it improve relations between the PM in waiting and China, can't speak for China but they certainly made it clear how impressed they were. The president even invited Mr Rudd and his wife to attend the Olympic Games next year. This at a time when he wasnt even PM.

Do i expect George Bush or any other world leader to be able to speak Chinese? No. Would i expect him to be able to pronounce names correctly? Yes of course. I would like to think that you other fine and respectful people would too!!

Defending him is only making him look sillier than he already does to the rest of the world!

---

Yes, I would be personally embarrassed, I have on occasion even forgot the name of a long time acquaintance, and experienced the sensation of embarrassment. However, I have had my name butchered and did not feel that the person doing so should be embarrassed, in fact, I did what I could to relieve them of any embarrassment. I am sure the President felt embarrassed, but I would do what I could to relieve his embarrassment, and not insult him for doing so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Yes, I would be personally embarrassed, I have on occasion even forgot the name of a long time acquaintance, and experienced the sensation of embarrassment. However, I have had my name butchered and did not feel that the person doing so should be embarrassed, in fact, I did what I could to relieve them of any embarrassment. I am sure the President felt embarrassed, but I would do what I could to relieve his embarrassment, and not insult him for doing so.

---

Ahhhh DC! Therein lies part of the problem. You are sensitive to other people's needs. Do you believe Abbas to be such a caring, reasonable, and rational man? I don't. ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...BUSHABBAS1.jpg



He don't appear to insulted:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

He don't appear to insulted:)

---

Hello again, DC:

He don't, do he? Peace at last. Good God Almighty, Peace at last.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, DC:

He don't, do he? Peace at last. Good God Almighty, Peace at last.

excon

---

Seek and ye shall find! :D :D :D :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, DC:

He don't, do he? Peace at last. Good God Almighty, Peace at last.

excon

---

LOL! At least until the next skirmish!

Lovely photo OP DC! LOL.

Just while we are on his gaffes and APEC I was reminded last night about a couple of other very embarrassing moments for Mr Bush recently

Bush: OPEC or APEC - The Huffington Post

In his speech to the APEC summit in Sydney recently he thanked us for being such fine hosts of OPEC..? And told the gathering how John Howard (Oz PM) had recently been to Iraq to visit AUSTRIAN troops. Hahaha. I wish. Have you seen Austrian women??

No we weren't too insulted but it doesn't look good for the leader of the worlds most powerful country does it??

Gee they (rep or dem) can't even get their for and against stuff right. It is surprising they can even pronounce their OWN name!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

LOL! At least until the next skirmish!

Lovely photo OP DC! LOL.

---

Yeah, the inter-Nicene struggle puts on a public face. When is a mistake not a mistake? In language at least, the answer to this question is "When everyone adopts it." :p

This whole issue comes down to the ancient philosophical question.

If a faux pas by President Bush is perceived but nobody reacts to it, will the libs make noise?

Elliot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

This whole issue comes down to the ancient philosophical question.

If a faux pas by President Bush is perceived but nobody reacts to it, will the libs make noise?

Elliot

---

What about if a Democratic President makes a faux pas, will the conservatives make noise?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tuscany

What about if a Democratic President makes a faux pas, will the conservatives make noise?

---

I don't know... have they ever done so before?

I seem to remember libs ragging on Reagan, on Bush 41, and now on W for perceived slips of the tongue.

I don't remember anyone making any fuss over JFK's faux pas of "Ich bin ein Berliner" ("I am a jelly-donught") during his visit to Berlin, and that was a major-league boo-boo.

I don't remember any comments at the time when Carter did an interview with Playboy Magazine in which he said "I've looked on a lot of women with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times. This is something that God recognizes I will do—and I have done it—and God forgives me for it."

So you tell me the answer to that question, Tuscany.



Oh, by the way, this is not the first time that Bush has mispronounced names of foreign leaders. In June 2001, he called Spain's Pime Minister Jose Maria Aznar "ansar" which is the Spanish word for goose.

Elliot

Bill Clinton... which again I agree was wrong.
Hillary Clinton...
Obama...

Listen to Fox News sometime they are as conservative as CNN is liberal.

And again I am not part of any political party. I vote for the person I believe would do the best job, party aside.

Lol

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...fannkuchen.jpg


By the way Wikipedia calls the grammatical faux pas an urban legend.