Actually---it is, Skell. I have a gun because I truly believe that someday I will have to rise up against my government. I may be mostly sane most of the time, but I'm truly paranoid about my government, and believe about half of the conspiracy theories out there about it (George Bush, Sr. shooting Kennedy, anyone?).

I live in a big city, but I'm in a good neighborhood, in a secured building, where I see the cops go by at least every hour. Of course, the cop shop is down the road about 4 blocks, so that's no real surprise.

Have I been scared for my life against someone breaking in? Nope. Not yet. But I have a funny feeling that someday I'll be glad that I know how to clean, load, and shoot a gun.

The funny thing about it is that I was born into a family of hunters... my gun is a 20-gauge shotgun. I was taught to shoot to put food on the table (yes, my family has always eaten what we've killed), not necessarily for sport or for the thrill of the kill. While there was a gun cabinet (locked, with ammo elsewhere) in my house as a kid, I was taught that guns are not for fun, but are something to be treated with the utmost respect, because they could KILL someone. My dad also pointed out when we were learning to shoot that you don't want to kill someone if you don't have to--but if you have to, don't hesitate, either. When it's a choice between your life and theirs, to make a choice and commend it to God.

The problem with guns is not that people want them, or that people kill with them. The problem is that people are so CASUAL about them, in the wrong sort of way. They're not part of everyday life because you need it for food, or because you enjoy hunting. They're part of everyday life because every day we hear about another person killed by one, another kid who accidentally shot one because his parents were stupid and didn't teach their children about the kind of tool a gun is, and when and how it should be used.

They'll put their kid in seatbelts, and bike helmets, and kneepads and jock straps and on birth control, but they won't teach their kids about guns, probably because so many parents these days don't know much themselves. A gun is a tool, like a chainsaw is a tool. You can hurt someone badly or kill with either one, but they can both also be used to help you do something more than just senseless killing.

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Originally Posted by magprob

And Ned.

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He's a national hero!!

Syn,

You make a lot of reasonable points and although it will wake more for me to be convinced I respect what you say. I just find it hard to grasp. Different cultures.

Perhaps if I lived in the US I too would feel like most of you, but down here I don't. And 95% of the population agree with me. Although 95% of the population down here also would love to rise up against Bush as well. But we are going to do that by changing our government come the Federal Election in December. :)

Better investigation of people responsible for trying to protect the community is needed, not gun control. Brainwashing the police and others since 9/11 that everyone is a possible terrorist is wrong. I am not a terrorist, I have a law abiding human being who will protect my family and myself. Now let's make the true people responsible for their action, criminals.



The gun control advocates are nuts. Enacting laws to control guns only affect people that abide by the law. The people that are committing the crimes with guns could not care less that there's a "gun control" law that they're breaking. It's the least of the laws they're breaking. If these idiots really want to control the criminals that use guns to commit crimes, they should encourage every citizen to carry a concealed firearm. I fight crime. I shoot back.

"If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." I mean, it's a cheesy bumper sticker, but it's true. When a criminal wants a gun, they don't walk down to the gun store, wait 3 days, and get a semi-automatic rifle. They get an illegal AK from someone of questionable morals. Period. Gun control laws limit citizens not criminals.

Washingtonians are not stupid. We are aware that gun laws have failed miserably wherever they have been tried. Anyone who knows how to visit the FBI Web site can tell you that the most dangerous places in the United States often are the places with the strictest gun laws. Gun laws overseas have been no more successful. Asking the Legislature to give us more is a colossal waste of time and an insult to our intelligence.

The concept of reducing violence by passing gun laws is a fallacy, as evidenced by several decades of failure. The only proven solution is to put criminals in prison and keep them there as long as you can. This is not a popular way to spend tax dollars; hence the opening for culture warriors to hijack the lawmaking process for their own ends.

I love reading these threads. It strenghtens my Canadian identity. I'm so happy to be here, not living my life in fear.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I love reading these threads. It strenghtens my Canadian identity. I'm so happy to be here, not living my life in fear.

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Excellent hunting & Fishing in Canada! Simply the best!

Quiet now, it's our little secret. No cities here, just rural expanse.

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Originally Posted by Skell

Thats fair enough.

Can i ask where you keep your gun J?

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Which one? LOL, I have many.

Most are in my gun safe, but one is hidden in a very safe place in my home. Another, when I have to go to the scary city of memphis is in my concealed carry purse.

I don't think, and I never said, MORE guns is the answer, it is not. Education is the key here.

And, yes, sadly I do think that boy would have used a knife, club, or some other weapon if he did not have access to a gun. He was mentally unstable as it was. He would have used anything he could have gotten his hands on.

The thing here is that you people don't see the good things that happen when a responsible gun owner saves the day. This happened a few miles from where I live.

Cordova Schnucks employee attacks seven co-workers

Again, the answer is not MORE guns, but in EDUCATION.

J 9, if you are ever close to Maryland stop by and we will go target shooting, I have a place that is quite safe for practice.

Hey, if you are ever near Memphis I own the SWEETEST gun range in the south!!

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Originally Posted by J_9

Hey, if you are ever near Memphis I own the SWEETEST gun range in the south!!!

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Next time I am down your way I will stop in, Do you have a Thompson 1928 available to shot?

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Originally Posted by mr.yet

Do you have a Thompson 1928 available to shot?

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Haven't been in the shop in a while, but I believe we do.

Latest update on the shooting. He could not handle rejection and name calling

Deputy rebuffed before attack - Crime & Punishment - MSNBC.com

I agree with one thing said at least... 20 years old is not old enough to be a cop...

Start, they send out guys to IRAQ at 18, because they are young and impressionable. IT is easier to get their minds brainwashed that way...
20 is too old to make hundreds of millions of dollars too, so what are we doing to our youth today??
Why do we put guns in our kids hands and expect them to be mature?

I know Shattered. Sure doesn't make any sense to me. I think you are right though. 18? 18? 18? An adult? Whoa... that is all I can say!

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Actually---it is, Skell. I have a gun because I truly believe that someday I will have to rise up against my government. I may be mostly sane most of the time, but I'm truly paranoid about my government, and believe about half of the conspiracy theories out there about it (George Bush, Sr. shooting Kennedy, anyone?).

I live in a big city, but I'm in a good neighborhood, in a secured building, where I see the cops go by at least every hour. Of course, the cop shop is down the road about 4 blocks, so that's no real surprise.

Have I been scared for my life against someone breaking in? Nope. Not yet. But I have a funny feeling that someday I'll be glad that I know how to clean, load, and shoot a gun.

The funny thing about it is that I was born into a family of hunters...my gun is a 20-gauge shotgun. I was taught to shoot to put food on the table (yes, my family has always eaten what we've killed), not necessarily for sport or for the thrill of the kill. While there was a gun cabinet (locked, with ammo elsewhere) in my house as a kid, I was taught that guns are not for fun, but are something to be treated with the utmost respect, because they could KILL someone. My dad also pointed out when we were learning to shoot that you don't want to kill someone if you don't have to--but if you have to, don't hesitate, either. When it's a choice between your life and theirs, to make a choice and commend it to God.

The problem with guns is not that people want them, or that people kill with them. The problem is that people are so CASUAL about them, in the wrong sort of way. They're not part of everyday life because you need it for food, or because you enjoy hunting. They're part of everyday life because every day we hear about another person killed by one, another kid who accidently shot one because his parents were stupid and didn't teach their children about the kind of tool a gun is, and when and how it should be used.

They'll put their kid in seatbelts, and bike helmets, and kneepads and jock straps and on birth control, but they won't teach their kids about guns, probably because so many parents these days don't know much themselves. A gun is a tool, like a chainsaw is a tool. You can hurt someone badly or kill with either one, but they can both also be used to help you do something more than just senseless killing.

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That gave me goosebumps!

Mag, it did me too. I have to be the first one to admit, I had a father that sat down at the table with me, he cleaned and made sure everything clicked and went smoothly with his guns. They were always off limits unless we went shooting also, I never wanted to test what would happen if I touched one without him around.
I will also admit that it is not the case with my kids. They have the pellet guns, airsoft and BB guns... (not the 6 and 4 year old) I am afraid to say that they are not educated as I was nor are they afraid... I am going to change that this very day. I felt like this for a long time and the guns for kids are gone... only special occasions do they come out and that will be with their parents to go shooting cans... One more Thank you to Synn for reminding me of this. Although it really sucks that I had to be!

Other way around with my kids - they will be nowhere near guns nor will we have any in our house.

That is a choice NK... I like that you are comfortable with yours.

I do agree with Synnen about guns being a tool, if children learned, understood and respected weapons early on, we wouldn't have them used in such foolish ways so often...
As citizens we have the right to bear arms, as we should. It doesn't mean we live in a society that will always obey the laws or not take advantage of them, but we cannot take away our rights because of crazy individuals who would kill, regardless of the weapon they choose.
I think it is interesting that we have so much violence in our culture, and sad. I am not sure where it originates, but I am sure having so many different walks of life living close together, creates the opportunity for conflict and discord. In other countries, there are usually only a few different kinds of races, ethnicities, but here there is anything and everything in between. Not to say living in the melting pot doesn't have its advantages. My children have learned that everyone is different, whether their cultures, religions, traditions or whatever..
The United States is just like every other country in the sense that is has positive and negative. We do have an ignorant administration running the country, we have been affected by it drastically, but there is change coming ahead. I will not only advocate for it, but I wll help be the change that needs to happen. WE can tear apart our country or we can build it up. WE can focus on what is wrong, or try to mend what has been ripped apart. There will always be sleazy politicians, people in positions who usurp their power, and the greedy who get richer, while the poor get poorer. However, we can also be the change in the tide. Maintaining our right to bear arms is as important as our right to free speech. IT is what makes us individuals, who can defend and protect ourselves if we need to. Just as there senseless killings, there is the opportunity to open our children's eyes to see the reality and seriousness of guns, or any weapon. We need to guide our children, not shield them from reality. NOt teaching them about guns or taking them away, won't stop people from getting them or using them. ITs kind of like sex. Society wants to regulate it, prevent it, or scare kids from doing it. Reality tells us, NOT Going to HAPPEN> So maybe if we take a different approach, it will work.
I am all for peace and for uniting people of all walks of life, but taking away people's rights as the justification for peace, won't work and will only make the people of this county more adament and angry about their right to bear arms.
EDUCATION is the key, that and RESPECT...

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Originally Posted by shatteredsoul

I am all for peace and for uniting people of all walks of life, but taking away people's rights as the justification for peace, won't work and will only make the people of this county more adament and angry about their right to bear arms.
EDUCATION is the key, that and RESPECT....

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That certainly didn't happen down under here when they took away our right to bear arms many years ago. There was a few demonstrations but by and large people accepted it and moved on with life.

Ill do some further research before making my claims but I always here that gun control laws don't work. I beg to differ but right now I haven't the time to go through the facts!

The thing is everyone says it is about educating gun users. All very well and good and no doubt that is very important. But everyone also claims that these people who go on these mad killing sprees are mentally ill. How do you educate the mentally ill? They won't listen. Education is nothing to them and even if they have it all that goes out the window in their emotionally sensitive state.

Wouldn't it make sense to make it hard / impossible for them to get a gun rather than gtive it to them and then try and educate? Just my thoughts. Im sure there will be some good arguments.

I do enjoy these debates because the issue of guns and gun control in US is just something that really perplexes me. There is an epidemic of gun violence yet almost everyone seems content with the laws that are in place regarding guns.

It is only because we have a deep rooted belief that by owning guns we are still in control of our freedom and sovernty. That is a complete load of bull. My personal reason for not wanting hand gun control? I just love a good ole fashion shoot out with any dumbass that thinks they can punk me.

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Originally Posted by magprob

It is only because we have a deep rooted belief that by owning guns we are still in control of our freedom and sovernty. That is a complete load of bull. My personal reason for not wanting hand gun control? I just love a good ole fashion shoot out with any dumbass that thinks they can punk me.

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At least your honest. :) My gut feeling is that there are more who share your opinion but masquerade behind the freedom issue. (Im not suggesting you Synn because I do actually believe you).

I can't fathom the idea that a gun is needed for the day of uprising against the Government. Surely if that was going to happen it would have by now with the imbecile in charge at present??

Here come the Cobra Jets... hand me my 12 gauge!

This is about a nut case. A guy that went off on a jealous rage. He could have used anything. The problem is not so much guns, but what is so wrong with people they feel they can just kill when they are pissed off or rejected.
Have we so catered to our children's self esteem, given them so much that they cannot accept rejection? They think the world should love them? That they should have everything they want?

Hey... some of us are working on that.

We just have to be covert about it, because of those terrorists the president has everyone convinced is behind every bush (haha--I crack myself up there).

Thanks, Skell. I'm glad you believe me :)

Edit: dang! Fast posters! Some of us are working on the whole overthrowing the government thing, I mean

I really wanted to say something about that myself but I do not want to generalize however, since you mention it, most kids are being raised with no responsibility and no sense of what anything is worth. Hell, they sit around playing video games, on the computer and don't even help mom take out the trash. They are coddled and protected and given their way until no one can say no to them. This guys girl friend said no to him so he shot every one at the party.

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Originally Posted by Homegirl 50

This is about a nut case. A guy that went off on a jealous rage. He could have used anything. The problem is not so much guns, but what is so wrong with people they feel they can just kill when they are pissed off or rejected.
Have we so catered to our children's self esteem, given them so much that they cannot accept rejection? They think the world should love them? That they should have everything they want?

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I still find it hard to believe that he would have knifed or bashed that many people to death before being stopped.

A gun is a unique weapon that allows this type of murder spree. Other than bombings what other methods of killing do you hear about where the are multiple killings in a fit of rage where the choice of weapon isn't a gun? I never hear reports or read about a rejected soul going to town and killing 15 people with a hockey stick!

Although the maniac is most at fault, his choice of weapon and how he comes across it must surely come into question too?

This is true, but the problem is people going on rampages. We need to find out what is happening with people. There are so many men killing girlfriends and family members and not all of them with handguns. People hiring people to kill. Guns are a problem, but the bigger problem is these psychotic spoiled people running around who can't take no for an answer or think if they want something they can just take it.
We need to get a handle on the mindset of these folks.

I agree, however as is see it, it would be a lot simpler task implementing systems to control gun violence then it would be implementing systems to control whackos. How hard would that be?

I know in my town, there is a difference between the city police and the state troopers.
As a whole, the troopers are more professional. The local cops are not trained as well, in my opinion.

The troopers, as rookies, do not patrol in the county they grew up in - too much subjectivity when you know and are known by the locals. Obviously the case in this sad situation.

Also for the job stress, the relatively low pay, the resposibilities and in a lot of cases the lack of respect, I commend anyone in the police force.

They are humans also. A percent will be "bad," just like in any other group or category of people.


As to guns. I learned from NRA members. Safety, education, and respect was stressed.
Like any other tool, it can be misused.




Grace and Peace

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Originally Posted by inthebox

As to guns. I learned from NRA members. Safety, education, and respect was stressed.
Like any other tool, it can be misused.


Grace and Peace

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But unlike most other tools its misuse causes murder and destruction.

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Originally Posted by Skell

But unlike most other tools its misuse causes murder and destruction.

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Do you mean like many other things? Not following the rules in my car while I am driving can cause murder and destruction, so can many, many other things... :(

I agree we need to do something about guns. There are people who make money off the sell of illegal firearms and I'm not talking about your everyday criminals. It's like drugs. People in high places are making money and as long as that continues, it will not stop.
But we do need to try and find out what is wrong with people that they are going off like this.
You read the stuff on this site. You've got teenage boys who can't take No for answer. Can't understand what a girl would not want them. Or men killing or hurting their girlfriend and wives because they no longer want them. People are just crazy. They take themselves too seriously and think everyone else should too.

And Homegirl, the ladies too... I have seen and heard of some pretty fightening stories about ladies doing just the same things. Wow, sure is sad. "Take responsibilty...and have some respect" Many other posters have said the same thing. I believe in that. So sad to think that someone is that selfish and crazy to want to do that and then actually do it. As it stands, and probably never will change, we have to live in this world with these people!

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Originally Posted by startover22

Do you mean like many other things? Not following the rules in my car while I am driving can cause murder and destruction, so can many, many other things...:(

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That's right. Cars do kill people. And that's why there are loads of road rules and a police system that is there to enforce them. We don't allow people who can't drive to have a car. Its probably harder to get a car license then it is to get a gun. The rules associated with cars and the road are constantly review and changed to try and limit accidents and deaths. Society demands it. The minute though someone calls for gun control laws to be introduced / reviewed everyone is up in arms about it saying that their constitutional rights are being broken.

Please read this thread.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/member...tml#post660422

You may just see it from the hostage's point of view.

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Originally Posted by Skell

Thats right. Cars do kill people. And thats why there are loads of road rules and a police system that is there to enforce them. We don't allow people who can't drive to have a car. Its probably harder to get a car license then it is to get a gun. The rules associated with cars and the road are constantly review and changed to try and limit accidents and deaths. Society demands it. The minute though someone calls for gun control laws to be introduced / reviewed everyone is up in arms about it saying that their constitutional rights are being broken.

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My pint is that yes there are MANY road rules... and STILL people are killed daily. I understand though, it is easy to get both a license and a gun. I see your point.

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Originally Posted by startover22

My pint is that yes there are MANY road rules...and STILL people are killed daily. I understand though, it is easy to get both a license and a gun. I see your point.

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Too easy! That is my point exactly. :)