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Originally Posted by tomder55

election day for Federal officials is set by Congress as "the Tuesday next after the first Monday in the month of November" . No where does that say Sunday or multiple days or days before the day set by Congress . Anytime Congress wants to change that they could . I suggest that if the Dems want anything else than what is already the law ,they are free to do so , State legislatures ,governors ,courts have no business changing that .It is unconstitutional to do so .

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So early voting by mail or in person is illegal?

No .......where the Federal Government decides it ,like The Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act (UOCAVA), it is legal .Where 50 states are making the law it is not . Article VI clause 2 of the Constitution gives supremacy to Federal law.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

No .......where the Federal Government decides it ,like The Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act (UOCAVA), it is legal .Where 50 states are making the law it is not . Article VI clause 2 of the Constitution gives supremacy to Federal law.

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first sensible thing that has been said on this subject

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Originally Posted by tomder55

No .......where the Federal Government decides it ,like The Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act (UOCAVA), it is legal .Where 50 states are making the law it is not . Article VI clause 2 of the Constitution gives supremacy to Federal law.

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Ergo, should the senate then go around the filibuster (reconciliation) and make the Voting Rights act a federal law? It's pretty clear several of the 200+ proposed state laws re voting are wacky, designed to suppress voters who the Repubs believe would vote Democratic. They've even said that publicly - that the laws (some) are designed strictly for the purpose of increasing the Repub percentage of votes.

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It's pretty clear several of the 200+ proposed state laws re voting are wacky, designed to suppress voters who the Repubs believe would vote Democratic. They've even said that publicly - that the laws (some) are designed strictly for the purpose of increasing the Repub percentage of votes.

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You just got through saying that Sunday voting is there to allow black, dem churches to vote. Does that count too? Mail in voting to enhance dem turnout would count as well, wouldn't it? Why is it OK to enact measures specifically designed to enhance dem turnout? Why wouldn't we simply say that voting is to be conducted on Tuesday? If there are long lines, then that needs to be addressed, and that's a valid point. It wouldn't bother me, on a fed level, to extend voting to two days if it's needed.

Pretty common sense to expand the voting process to be easier and more inclusive as opposed to more challenging given the population growth and technical advances and the logistical challenges. An upgrade/update is indicated but for the notion of keeping power and influence in the hands of a few. The same few that thought counting the number of jellybeans in a jar to qualify ones right to vote.

I get having an ID, but not closing DMV's and moving them from population centers and cutting hours. Or closing polling centers, or other shenanigans and tricks to discourage and prevent one from exercising a basic right. That needs to stop. Suspending the filibuster to resolve those issues is what's needed. If it brings outrage and retaliation from opponents then so be it. For sure NOT moving forward to improve the basic conditions before us out of fear of retaliation makes things worse not better.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Pretty common sense to expand the voting process to be easier and more inclusive as opposed to more challenging given the population growth and technical advances and the logistical challenges. An upgrade/update is indicated but for the notion of keeping power and influence in the hands of a few. The same few that thought counting the number of jellybeans in a jar to qualify ones right to vote.

I get having an ID, but not closing DMV's and moving them from population centers and cutting hours. Or closing polling centers, or other shenanigans and tricks to discourage and prevent one from exercising a basic right. That needs to stop. Suspending the filibuster to resolve those issues is what's needed.

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Simple and sensible.

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If it brings outrage and retaliation from opponents then so be it. For sure NOT moving forward to improve the basic conditions before us out of fear of retaliation makes things worse not better.

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It seems to me that the most worthwhile things often encounter roadblocks and sometimes a price. Things easily gained are easily lost. Fear of retaliation is one of those roadblocks. Better to confront it than run from it.

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I get having an ID, but not closing DMV's and moving them from population centers and cutting hours. Or closing polling centers, or other shenanigans and tricks to discourage and prevent one from exercising a basic right. That needs to stop.

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I agree with that. We do need to include, however, sloppily operated mail-out schemes with not much more security that mail outs for car warranties.

I understand the trepidation at some of the states mail out policies, but every state had a secure and efficient verification system for RECIEVED ballots as certified by those states. It's not how many go out or to who but the ones that come back, checked and verified. We seem to have done a GREAT job of that as a nation during covid, and an excellent turnout comparatively. Definitely something to build on and improve.

There is always room for improvement.

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Originally Posted by Athos

It seems to me that the most worthwhile things often encounter roadblocks and sometimes a price. Things easily gained are easily lost. Fear of retaliation is one of those roadblocks. Better to confront it than run from it.

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Exactly!

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Originally Posted by talaniman

We seem to have done a GREAT job of that as a nation during covid,

There is always room for improvement.

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Tal your nation has not done a great job, 500,000 deaths, by no stretch of the imagination can that be called a great job

Read carefully. He wasn’t talking about doing a great job WITH COVID but DURING COVID.

My answer is still the same, Haven't seen any great jobs in a long time. I notice gun violence is on the rise again, another "great" job you have done

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My answer is still the same,

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I'm no fan of Tal, but his point was that he believed we did a good job with vote security despite the fact we were in a major pandemic. You missed it.

we as a population move on average 10% of our population in any given year(and even that is at historic lows ) . We are a very mobile people . To say that there is ballot security under that reality when there is at the same time a reluctance to purge voter roles; and the decision to send out vote mailers as if they were store coupons beggars belief .

Those who defend what you described seem to be driven purely by political bias. Expanding the voter process and making it easier is frequently at odds with an honest, secure voting process. Having a non picture ID, for instance, is nearly useless.

I really don't see any other reason than political expediency to make the process of voting easy to the point of insecure. We all know that if we want to drive a car, there are certain hoops to jump through. No one suggests we make getting a DL easy and more inclusive. Surely voting is at least as important as getting a DL.

The most secure election in history by any standard and still you righties ain't happy and scared of your own shadows? Even when the dufus won it was a secure election despite all the extra shenanigans. Still you guys cry foul and want to tinker with success.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

we as a population move on average 10% of our population in any given year(and even that is at historic lows ) . We are a very mobile people . To say that there is ballot security under that reality when there is at the same time a reluctance to purge voter roles; and the decision to send out vote mailers as if they were store coupons beggars belief .

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What beggars belief is the refusal of the right-wing to acknowledge what Trump's own Department of Homeland Security said about the 2020 election.

“There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised,” .

The Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) — part of the Department of Homeland Security — strongly rebuked Trump’s unsubstantiated claims that Biden won the election. "The 2020 presidential election was the most secure in history, there was no evidence that votes were compromised or widespread voter fraud."

The wacky attempt to make voting damaging to Democrats (and democracy) by over 250 laws pending in state legislatures is driven purely by political bias.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Those who defend what you described seem to be driven purely by political bias. Expanding the voter process and making it easier is frequently at odds with an honest, secure voting process. Having a non picture ID, for instance, is nearly useless.

I really don't see any other reason than political expediency to make the process of voting easy to the point of insecure. We all know that if we want to drive a car, there are certain hoops to jump through. No one suggests we make getting a DL easy and more inclusive. Surely voting is at least as important as getting a DL.

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Voting should be as easy as buying a gun and shooting up innocent people shouldn't it? Ain't no voter fraud, but murder is okay?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Voting should be as easy as buying a gun and shooting up innocent people shouldn't it? Ain't no voter fraud, but murder is okay?

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The Republicans have it arse-backwards. By their inaction, a majority effectively supports shooting up people. By their action, a majority supports vote suppression.

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as easy as buying a gun

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Haven't bought a gun recently, have you? If we could get voter security that high (background check), all repubs would be happy.