Ask Me Help Desk - Youth on the rampage

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Originally Posted by paraclete

still a lead in to what to do with troubled youth, one solution is harsh discipline, rarely does that seem to work and often makes the problem worse, another solution is to take them out of the home environment, I'm never sure that works either because loss of identity is a negative, even a third is what was tried here; a special school, obviously they learned little in a loose discipline environment. I think you have to abandon the idea of educating them in the traditional way and make them task oriented so success improves self worth

Isolate/segregate and plenty of one on one evaluative investigation. For some the very act of grouping with like mindsets is an invitation to bad behavior. A nation founded by emptying the jails should know that.

ah Tal we are as far from our roots as you are, the academics and limp wristed dilettantes have taken over and want to coddle youth

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the academics and limp wristed dilettantes have taken over and want to coddle youth

Pretty much right on.

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Yes, the wonders of the child's/teen's attitude becoming more cunning and secretive, greatly resentful, and full of hate.

Except. of course, that it doesn't turn out that way. It's the permissive, anything is acceptable approach that produces irresponsible, hateful kids.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

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Except. of course, that it doesn't turn out that way. It's the permissive, anything is acceptable approach that produces irresponsible, hateful kids.

Is that what produces hateful kids, I never knew, because in my case it was over discipline

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Is that what produces hateful kids, I never knew, because in my case it was over discipline

It's not easy to find the perfect balance, nor realize the best efforts and intentions may indeed be ineffectual and fail.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

ah Tal we are as far from our roots as you are, the academics and limp wristed dilettantes have taken over and want to coddle youth

Well we must face the fact at least in America the hard core send 'em to jail only leads to more in jail and more jails, so as a deterrent that ain't the best answer either.

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Is that what produces hateful kids, I never knew, because in my case it was over discipline

That's a fair point. Both extremes are harmful. I was trying to make the point (clumsily) that a properly administered whipping is not a negative but a positive.

Ok you first

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

.....properly administered whipping.....

Perfect example of an oxymoron.

agreed

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Perfect example of an oxymoron.

Perfect example of lack of knowledge.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Perfect example of lack of knowledge.

Please enlighten me.

Is the whip tipped with metal balls? Or do you just use leather points? When the blood appears in little droplets, do you continue until it is more of a stream? Do you stop when the bruises appear so the doctor doesn't report you to the police? Or do you just forego any reporting or doctoring at all?

I assume your guide in this matter is the Bible, to go along with the slaughtering and massacres of children.

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Is the whip tipped with metal balls? Or do you just use leather points? When the blood appears in little droplets, do you continue until it is more of a stream? Do you stop when the bruises appear so the doctor doesn't report you to the police? Or do you just forego any reporting or doctoring at all?

Another drama queen on this site.

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I assume your guide in this matter is the Bible,

Actually, it is.

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to go along with the slaughtering and massacres of children.

Hard to imagine how a supporter of abortion like you could make such a statement. How could anyone possibly be more guilty than you?

Probably more productive to hone in on the individuals that behave badly than pass out sticks to beat all the kids with. As I understand the OP then these were not kids but young adults so correct me if I'm wrong, but is it coddling to give them extra professional attention?

Be interesting to see what the background of care was for those youths before they got to the point of what the OP is about.

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posted by Athos
I assume your guide in this matter is the Bible

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Actually, it is.

Well, here's some Bible for you to chew on. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is already well-known. These are sources that the white evangelicals rely on to support their "properly administered whipping". God is the model for punishment.

"You shall utterly destroy them: the Hittite and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite." (Deuteronomy)

God wanted to make sure everybody in the neighborhood was covered.

"The city shall be doomed by the Lord to destruction, it and all who are in it. Only Rahab the harlot shall live." (Joshua)

Nice touch. God has a soft spot for hookers.

"Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey." (Saul)

God was extra angry that day. “Utterly destroy them”, “do not spare them”, kill, kill, kill.

"The Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." (Genesis)

Finally, God destroys all that he has created because he repents for making a mistake. Can this God be an All-Knowing God? Couldn't he foresee what would happen?

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Hard to imagine how a supporter of abortion like you could make such a statement.

The statement refers to God going along with slaughtering and massacring children. As to my support, I support a woman's right to choose - a distinction beyond your ken.

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How could anyone possibly be more guilty than you?

Maybe your OT God? If he had no problem killing the firstborn, why would he have a problem killing the unborn?

“For I will pass through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast.” (Exodus).

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Well, here's some Bible for you to chew on. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is already well-known. These are sources that the white evangelicals rely on to support their "properly administered whipping".

Other than your plainly racist reference to white people, as though non-whites cannot be evangelical or spank their children, you are on the right path.

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Finally, God destroys all that he has created because he repents for making a mistake. Can this God be an All-Knowing God? Couldn't he foresee what would happen?

You have made it very clear you don't like the God of the Bible. Why not just move on? At any rate, I have no idea what any of that has to do with corporal punishment.

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Hard to imagine how a supporter of abortion like you could make such a statement.

The statement refers to God going along with slaughtering and massacring children. As to my support, I support a woman's right to choose

Nice try, but that weak answer won't do. There is no greater slaughter and massacre of children taking place than abortion. As to "choice", why wouldn't God simply say He is exercising His choice? If a woman can choose to kill her innocent, unborn child, and you say you support that option, then why can't God choose to kill? Does anyone have any greater authority to do so than God? Why do you exercise such a double standard???

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as though non-whites cannot be evangelical or spank their children, you are on the right path.

NO ONE should spank a child!

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Originally Posted by Athos

Well, here's some Bible for you to chew on. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is already well-known. These are sources that the white evangelicals rely on to support their "properly administered whipping". God is the model for punishment.

once again your intrepretation is wrong the rod spoken of is the sharp rebuke .

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"You shall utterly destroy them: the Hittite and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite." (Deuteronomy)

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God wanted to make sure everybody in the neighborhood was covered.

"The city shall be doomed by the Lord to destruction, it and all who are in it. Only Rahab the harlot shall live." (Joshua)

Nice touch. God has a soft spot for hookers.

"Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey." (Saul)

God was extra angry that day. “Utterly destroy them”, “do not spare them”, kill, kill, kill.

"The Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." (Genesis)

Finally, God destroys all that he has created because he repents for making a mistake. Can this God be an All-Knowing God? Couldn't he foresee what would happen?

The statement refers to God going along with slaughtering and massacring children. As to my support, I support a woman's right to choose - a distinction beyond your ken.

Maybe your OT God? If he had no problem killing the firstborn, why would he have a problem killing the unborn?

“For I will pass through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast.” (Exodus).

and again I say your intrepretation is wrong these peoples were destroyed because they were Baal worshipers and made human sacrifice so God's judgement rested upon them it speaks nothing of the discipline of youth and that last passage speaks of the judgement of Egypt as they would not let the Israelites go

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once again your intrepretation is wrong the rod spoken of is the sharp rebuke .

There is no reason to believe that it means anything other than corporal punishment. There is also no reason to believe that it means beating a child excessively.

you have your reasons, I have mine

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Originally Posted by paraclete

and again I say your intrepretation is wrong these peoples were destroyed because they were Baal worshipers and made human sacrifice so God's judgement rested upon them it speaks nothing of the discipline of youth and that last passage speaks of the judgement of Egypt as they would not let the Israelites go

The quoted passages follow EXACTLY the words of the Bible. You can't dispute that.

My interpretation has everything to do with the discipline of youth by showing the OT God as a role model for how to punish transgressors including intransigent youth. This is how the white evangelicals (among others) use the Bible as justification for their "properly administered whipping". Those are not my words in bold - they are the words of a white evangelical here on this website.

Your interpretation of the words is the traditional one. I hope you see how far removed from the Gospel of Jesus Christ your interpretation is. Do you honestly believe the murderous God of the OT is the same God as Jesus Christ?